What do you believe about it now?

Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
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Rob4Hope
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What do you believe about it now?

Post by Rob4Hope » Sun May 02, 2021 8:59 am

With regards to the LDS church, I believe its a load of crock.

I came to that conclusion about 10 years ago.

The tipping point was when I could no longer justify the lack of accountability the leadership took in their words and actions. Since that time, my eyes were opened enough to look harder -- and the evidence mounted.

I'm curious about how others feel...just concise entries if possible.

Thoughts?

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Red Ryder
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by Red Ryder » Sun May 02, 2021 10:24 am

Teachings of an opportunistic man mingled with scripture that evolved into an Institutionally dishonest corporate media, real estate, and investment empire.

To be fair, I think all religious narratives have the same beginnings. A man/women who claims to talk to God on everyone else’s behalf and teaches the way back to God for a price. Whether that be in discipleship as a follower/believer and usually with a need to tithe monetary value.

Mormonism is a restoration of an old practice with a new underwear requirement. :lol:
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Ghost
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by Ghost » Sun May 02, 2021 1:12 pm

These days I guess I still wish I could be confident in some sort of afterlife, but not with the same intensity as when I'd freshly lost my previous certainty. I don't know that I'd specifically want the Mormon version to be accurate. I think it's too vague to look forward to, other than the basic ideas of surviving death and seeing those who have died again. And while I don't think I'd "choose to believe" even if I could manage to do so, I do feel that I must choose to believe that things aren't pointless in the face of oblivion.

Earlier in my faith transition, I had the attitude that since Mormonism doesn't seem to be any more of a human invention than anything else, there's no reason not to stick with it if it still "works" in some way. But I've gradually become more and more indifferent toward it all. I guess it's stopped "working" for me?

lostinmiddlemormonism
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by lostinmiddlemormonism » Sun May 02, 2021 1:57 pm

Joseph's Myth has made Mormony for nepotistic old white guys than it every made for him.
That's my take.
-lost

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jfro18
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by jfro18 » Sun May 02, 2021 2:07 pm

With regards to the LDS church, I believe that you can prove that Joseph Smith made it up. He left his fingerprints all over everything he did with mistakes that show it had to be written after ~1826, meaning there is no chance it is ancient.

With regards to beliefs beyond the church, i have no idea anymore... not in a terrible way, but in a "I really don't know and that's OK because I'm trying to really learn more and do better" kind of way. That's not to say it's all that fulfilling to not believe in the same kind of God and heaven I once believed in, but I still have that desire to believe in something bigger even if it's not an all-knowing and loving God.

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LSOF
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by LSOF » Sun May 02, 2021 3:22 pm

Religion was first gotten up in ignorance, and is perpetuated for power and for gain. Mormonism is no exception. Priests and theologians diagnose their charges with imaginary "spiritual" maladies (God's disfavour, encumbrance with engrams, whatever) and exchange the cure for real money and real fealty. Never was a more successful imposture perpetrated on mankind.
"I appreciate your flesh needs to martyr me." Parture

"There is no contradiction between faith and science --- true science." Dr Zaius

Pastor, Lunar Society of Friends; CEO, Faithful Origins and Ontology League

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2bizE
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by 2bizE » Sun May 02, 2021 7:05 pm

Religion is the greatest fraud in humankind. Mormonism is the largest financial fraud in the past 200 years.
~2bizE

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Rob4Hope
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by Rob4Hope » Mon May 03, 2021 12:12 pm

2bizE wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 7:05 pm
Religion is the greatest fraud in humankind. Mormonism is the largest financial fraud in the past 200 years.
here here

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Red Ryder
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by Red Ryder » Mon May 03, 2021 12:54 pm

Wait a minute...

We’re not supposed to be rehearsing our doubts with each other. :lol:
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Linked
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by Linked » Mon May 03, 2021 1:20 pm

I have not had any experiences that justify belief in divine intervention in my life, nor in the lives of those I am familiar with. Many of the stories I've heard from others are not compelling enough to justify belief, and other stories are not provable enough to justify that belief either. Some of the stories that I based my belief on in the past ended up being provably false which is quite disillusioning.

I think there are better explanations for the world around us than what mormonism or other dogmatic religions offer. Most religions seem to detract from the truth rather than add to it by being too certain of their views.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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glass shelf
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by glass shelf » Mon May 03, 2021 1:37 pm

Mormonism = easy to disprove once you rip off the blinders

As for all of religion, I'm an apathetic atheist. I don't see any real evidence for divinity that i'd be interested in worshipping, and I already wasted too much of my life on religion. If I found out there's something more after I die, i'll deal with it them.

Reuben
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by Reuben » Mon May 03, 2021 3:49 pm

I think Mormonism was started by a man with something to prove and a casual relationship with reality, who got caught up in his own lies. It was continued by men who liked the power it gave them and managed to convince themselves they were doing God's work. Over the years it has accrued the delusions, insecurities and arrogance of its leaders, the birthright of all Mormons.

Against all that, it manages to do some people good sometimes.

And it's nothing special.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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wtfluff
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by wtfluff » Mon May 03, 2021 6:14 pm

I can't add much to what has already been said, besides:

It's

All

Made

Up.


It would have been reeeeeeeeally nice to wake up from my Alternate MORmON Reality a lot sooner in life. Le-Sigh...


glass shelf wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:37 pm
I'm an apathetic atheist.
I believe this is what's called apathesim. Or as I like to put it: "Don't Know, Don't Care" (whether any gods exist or not.) As far as I can tell, any god, or gods that might exist do everything in their power to hide themselves from humankind, so they're basically irrelevant.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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Exiled
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by Exiled » Wed May 05, 2021 4:58 am

It's definitely nonsense, any way you look at it. The history is unsupportable with the claims. No nephites existed outside of the imagination. DNA solved that and continues to do so along with every other discipline. The book of abraham was clearly made up. Priesthood power is imaginary. Nelson says tithing lifts the poor out of poverty, a clearly false claim. It's just about convincing the members and converts to contribute to an investment fund in exchange for the ability to enter into fancy real estate so you can pledge loyalty to the cause/leaders.

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moksha
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by moksha » Thu May 06, 2021 12:37 am

With some changes, I think the LDS Church has a lot to offer the world.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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wtfluff
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by wtfluff » Thu May 06, 2021 6:44 am

moksha wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 12:37 am
With some changes, I think the LDS Church has a lot to offer the world.
120+ billion?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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moksha
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by moksha » Thu May 06, 2021 10:38 pm

The Church has developed a well-staffed bureaucracy and dedicated volunteer corp that could put its collective shoulder to the wheel and help a lot of needy people.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Rob4Hope
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by Rob4Hope » Sun May 09, 2021 8:04 am

moksha wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 10:38 pm
The Church has developed a well-staffed bureaucracy and dedicated volunteer corp that could put its collective shoulder to the wheel and help a lot of needy people.
I actually agree with this Moksha.

But the church would have to make some pretty big changes. I am concerned about the total illusional reality of the leaders.

I think Bednar (among others) is in the know. They know what is going on....but they have hardened inside, and forced belief inside.

Thoughts on what those q15 believe?

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deacon blues
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by deacon blues » Sun May 09, 2021 9:12 am

I think there is about a 1-3% chance the Church is true. Even if it is true, the leaders prioritize the Church over Truth- hence they are essentially worshipping the Church to some extent, not God. So I don't trust them as a great source of Truth, but I may be biased. I think there is a 50-50% chance there is a God. If so I'm very grateful to God. God has given me a lot of breaks in this life: Born free, in the USA, of caring parents, etc. If there is no God, I'm grateful for those same breaks that fate/chance has given me.
I believe Truth is very important, but Love comes first. Love may God's greatest attribute, and/or God's greatest gift. It's possible God is Love and Love is God. I believe Jesus is special. The New Testament and Christianity may represent Him accurately, or not so much. If evidence changes, I will change my beliefs.
God is Love. God is Truth

hmb
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Re: What do you believe about it now?

Post by hmb » Mon May 10, 2021 5:03 am

Rob4Hope wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 8:04 am
moksha wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 10:38 pm
The Church has developed a well-staffed bureaucracy and dedicated volunteer corp that could put its collective shoulder to the wheel and help a lot of needy people.
I actually agree with this Moksha.

But the church would have to make some pretty big changes. I am concerned about the total illusional reality of the leaders.

I think Bednar (among others) is in the know. They know what is going on....but they have hardened inside, and forced belief inside.

Thoughts on what those q15 believe?
I have wondered if the prophets really do believe? Do they spend time praying when alone? Do they ask God for guidance? Do they really believe in the church and an afterlife? do they believe that their reward will come in the next life? If they don't, in their guts, believe in the LDS doctrine, but do believe in God, do they worry they will burn in hell for deceiving the masses? Do they really believe that they have sacrificed everything to follow Jesus?

To answer the question in the title, I went from believing member, to doubting member, to atheist. I don't believe in anything related to God or PH. I do believe in the basic teachings around the Golden Rule. Treat people kindly and fairly, even those that make it difficult to do so. I believe in the beam and mote thing; don't throw stones in glass houses, etc. I do not believe there is some higher power looking out for us.

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