I Learned How to Judge as a Mormon

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1smartdodog
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I Learned How to Judge as a Mormon

Post by 1smartdodog » Fri May 14, 2021 6:33 am

It started when I was young. The messages I got at church were how to judge others by their outward appearance and behavior. Things that were lifestyle choices morphed into deviant behavior. I learned these people were defective and needed fixing.

Fast forward 60 years and it is a hard habit to break, but I work on it everyday.


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“Five percent of the people think; ten percent of the people think they think; and the other eighty-five percent would rather die than think.”
― Thomas A. Edison

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Linked
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Re: I Learned How to Judge as a Mormon

Post by Linked » Fri May 14, 2021 10:30 am

To judge is to be human.

For me I would say I learned what to judge as a mormon, and it was all wrong. We are judgement machines and I don't think there is a way to stop it. So I've tried to change what I judge from swearing and modesty and caffeine and R-rated movies and church attendance and garment lines to fairness and kindness and understanding.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Red Ryder
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Re: I Learned How to Judge as a Mormon

Post by Red Ryder » Fri May 14, 2021 11:24 am

You’ll get used to my Mohawk eventually! :lol:
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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1smartdodog
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Re: I Learned How to Judge as a Mormon

Post by 1smartdodog » Fri May 14, 2021 1:03 pm

Linked wrote:To judge is to be human.

For me I would say I learned what to judge as a mormon, and it was all wrong. We are judgement machines and I don't think there is a way to stop it. So I've tried to change what I judge from swearing and modesty and caffeine and R-rated movies and church attendance and garment lines to fairness and kindness and understanding.
Good advice. If you hurt someone you get on my bad list. Not so much if you have purple hair.


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“Five percent of the people think; ten percent of the people think they think; and the other eighty-five percent would rather die than think.”
― Thomas A. Edison

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Angel
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Re: I Learned How to Judge as a Mormon

Post by Angel » Fri May 14, 2021 4:04 pm

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“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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DPRoberts
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Re: I Learned How to Judge as a Mormon

Post by DPRoberts » Fri May 14, 2021 7:04 pm

Joseph Smith had to mess with the scripture where Jesus said not to judge, so it is doctrinal to judge "righteously"
Judge not, that ye be not judged” (Matt. 7:1) is changed to “Judge not unrighteously, that ye be not judged: but judge righteous judgment” (JST, Matt. 7:2).
I remember one of the times I brought a room full of priesthood to uncomfortable silence when I said that the longer I lived the more I realized how hard it is to judge righteously, and that I wished Joseph had left that verse alone.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

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DPRoberts
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Re: I Learned How to Judge as a Mormon

Post by DPRoberts » Fri May 14, 2021 7:04 pm

Duplicate post
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

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Palerider
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Re: I Learned How to Judge as a Mormon

Post by Palerider » Fri May 14, 2021 10:18 pm

DPRoberts wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 7:04 pm
Joseph Smith had to mess with the scripture where Jesus said not to judge, so it is doctrinal to judge "righteously"
Judge not, that ye be not judged” (Matt. 7:1) is changed to “Judge not unrighteously, that ye be not judged: but judge righteous judgment” (JST, Matt. 7:2).
I remember one of the times I brought a room full of priesthood to uncomfortable silence when I said that the longer I lived the more I realized how hard it is to judge righteously, and that I wished Joseph had left that verse alone.
To "judge" at that time carried the implication of condemnation with it. Perhaps it still does. But the Pharisees to whom Christ was speaking had an entire set of the " commandments of men" that they judged by.

Luke:

"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven"

So even if we estimate someone else's behavior as being against God's law as it is truly written, we still have no right to condemn that person because their life isn't over yet. There may be numerous reasons for their behavior or future opportunities for improving that behavior.

Joseph may have picked up his "inspiration" from John 7:24
"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

The Pharisees judged by the appearance of those they considered beneath them rather than "looking on the heart" as God does.

The only exception I would make to the above would be in various criminal cases where I believe the law should be allowed to run it's course.

I love 1 Samuel 16:7

"But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

Reuben
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Re: I Learned How to Judge as a Mormon

Post by Reuben » Sat May 15, 2021 2:10 am

I think the church teaches members to judge themselves first and foremost, and that for most members, all other judgment flows from that.

When I let go of judging myself - when I realized I was terrible at it, and the commandment to "judge not" applied just as easily to self-judgment - I largely stopped judging other people. I wanted everyone to make it to super VIP heaven, and thought almost everyone would. Such a large burden lifted. A very Christian attitude, and maintaining it was like forcing a square peg into a round hole.

A big part of my disaffection was realizing that evangelicals understood grace better than church leaders did.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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Linked
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Re: I Learned How to Judge as a Mormon

Post by Linked » Mon May 17, 2021 10:05 am

Reuben wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 2:10 am
I think the church teaches members to judge themselves first and foremost, and that for most members, all other judgment flows from that.

When I let go of judging myself - when I realized I was terrible at it, and the commandment to "judge not" applied just as easily to self-judgment - I largely stopped judging other people. I wanted everyone to make it to super VIP heaven, and thought almost everyone would. Such a large burden lifted. A very Christian attitude, and maintaining it was like forcing a square peg into a round hole.

A big part of my disaffection was realizing that evangelicals understood grace better than church leaders did.
I had a similar surprise about grace. I think I was on my mission when I realized what Jesus grace actually meant. It's sad I was able to go to church weekly, through 4 years of seminary, and half a mission before getting it. The church wants to control so much that the grace part just gets in the way. They pay lip service to it, but their actions speak louder. I felt like an unorthodox thinker because I thought grace was as important as I did.

Once when I was halfway out the door I was talking to a church friend and mentioned that I was done feeling guilty about stuff. I was a pretty scrupulous kid and the guilt was constant and overwhelming and not helping me become a better person, so I decided it didn't get to make my decisions anymore. My friend told me to be careful because he knew someone who had left the church after not feeling guilty. I thought that was a bad sign for the church, that to stay in you need to hang onto your guilt.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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moksha
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Re: I Learned How to Judge as a Mormon

Post by moksha » Tue May 18, 2021 6:00 am

If Deseret Books were to offer a Judge in Israel certificate, I suspect it would become a bestseller.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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