No Mission Goals

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A New Name
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No Mission Goals

Post by A New Name » Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:35 pm

In HPG today we had a lesson on setting goals (big surprise). The instructor, who works in our local mission office (it's actually in our building), said that new mission Presidents are instructed in their training to NOT het baptism goals for the mission or for individual missionaries. Missionaries can set their own, the the President can't set them. I then piped up, as I'm want to do, and explain this was to combat the abuse of years ago by Presidents setting unrealistic goals, causing missionaries to do some bad things.

Looks like the church is learning from past mistakes!

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MoPag
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Re: No Mission Goals

Post by MoPag » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:11 am

Well that's a step in the right direction. I remember watching a Mormon Stories with D. Michael Quinn and he was telling about having to go clean up the aftermath of the "baseball baptisms" in England. It was so messed up. The missionaries set up a baseball club and then told the kids in the club they had to get baptized in order to stay in the club. Some kids were as young as 6 and the missionaries baptized them anyway. The missionaries justified it by saying they were trying to meet the insanely high baptism goals set by the MP.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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Corsair
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Re: No Mission Goals

Post by Corsair » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:16 pm

So the mission presidency has come to grudgingly gain a testimony that human nature trumps inspiration. It feels like the gospel has to be spread through marketing and coercion instead of having a message that is compelling and fascinating.

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Zadok
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Re: No Mission Goals

Post by Zadok » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:09 pm

MoPag wrote:I remember watching a Mormon Stories with D. Michael Quinn and he was telling about having to go clean up the aftermath of the "baseball baptisms" in England.
I served my mission in England in 1967/68. We had to deal with a lot of the 'kiddie dip' problems. It wasn't pretty.
If I'm a bird, why can't I fly?

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moksha
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Re: No Mission Goals

Post by moksha » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:55 pm

An excellent goal to substitute would be needed community service, such as helping the elderly, that would build up good will toward Mormons and their missionaries (as opposed to crossing the street to avoid them).
Last edited by moksha on Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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moksha
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Re: No Mission Goals

Post by moksha » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:56 pm

Zadok wrote:I served my mission in England in 1967/68. We had to deal with a lot of the 'kiddie dip' problems. It wasn't pretty.
Zadok, besides the unethicality of baseball baptisms (false pretenses) what were some of the problems that needed cleaning up?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Zadok
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Re: No Mission Goals

Post by Zadok » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:36 pm

The biggest issue were the now teens, and young adults, who were members, and didn't even know it. Their numbers were large enough that in some cases they would negatively impact the statistics of the ward and stake. The church was just starting on their building binge, and many British wards didn't qualify because their activity rate was so low.

Misionaries were tasked with tracking down the kids and trying to keep them in the saddle, and turn them to productive tithe payers.

There was more than once, when I was genuinely afraid as we tried to explain to parents and teens alike that they were members...
If I'm a bird, why can't I fly?

Spicy McHaggis
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Re: No Mission Goals

Post by Spicy McHaggis » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:55 pm

I think those unrealistic baptismal goals caused a lot of emotional/psychological harm.
Telling the mission they should have 125 baptisms per month (that was our goal in San Diego), then blaming the kids for some sin or not working hard enough when those goals aren't met is what cults do. It makes those poor kids blame themselves instead of realizing the product they're selling isn't worth buying.

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2bizE
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Re: No Mission Goals

Post by 2bizE » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:10 pm

On my mission, we had a set mission monthly goal of 5 baptisms. Each companionship also set goals. Whoever dunked the most got to have a special meal with the MP. It was a good meal, not the normal slop. In an area I was in, we struggled to meet the goal of 5. I was transferred out after about 6 months. My companion who remained started getting very high numbers, even in the 30s. He won the monthly goal a few times for the mission. Later, we found out he had been doing work for the dead instead. He would go to the local cemetery and get names to baptize.
I would like to see less pressure on the kids to baptize and more support on learning a lifelong commitment to helping out in the community.
I think the leaders are finding the costs of baptisms. I'm willing to bet my garments (any takers?) that only about 10 percent of new converts pay tithing. Maybe less. We know that only about 25-30 percent remain active. At some point the cost benefit is prohibitive for baptizing many people. You have to be selective if you want active members with money. Sometimes, no baptism goal is a good thing.
~2bizE

Spicy McHaggis
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Re: No Mission Goals

Post by Spicy McHaggis » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:41 pm

I've said it before and I really believe it: The church knows the real growth (profits) comes from the missionaries, not from the converts. I would bet everything I own that tithes received from converts each year is far less than the costs of supporting 80,000 missionaries.
The sales tactics of knocking on doors and pestering people on the street or on public transit has no noticeable growth. That sort of sales tactics haven't been effective in many decades.
The real purpose of missions, the church is hoping the two years of brainwashing will result in a lifetime of the RMs paying tithing. Any income from converts is just gravy.

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Meilingkie
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Re: No Mission Goals

Post by Meilingkie » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:07 pm

The Dutch mission costs 1.8 million a year.
Total tithingincome is abt 3 million a year for the entire country
The Church is the "fount of vicarious shame" that keeps on giving

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moksha
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Re: No Mission Goals

Post by moksha » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:39 pm

Spicy McHaggis wrote: It makes those poor kids blame themselves instead of realizing the product they're selling isn't worth buying.
If only they had supplied the missionaries with Kirby vacuums, the missionaries could have included the sale in their missionary counts and the customers would have a product that would last for many years and was meant to suck.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Korihor
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Re: No Mission Goals

Post by Korihor » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:49 pm

When performance is measured - performance is increase.
Reading can severely damage your ignorance.

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