Temple changes

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Hagoth
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Temple changes

Post by Hagoth » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:02 am

One part of conference I did hear was Mr. Nelson talking about temple changes. It was obviously designed to settle the nerves of people who are unsettled by the ever-changing nature of the temple ceremonies, but it also sounded like a buckle-up warning.

Any thoughts about things to come? Was anything hinted at that I didn't hear?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Red Ryder
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Red Ryder » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:37 am

Wife said his talk sounded like big changes were coming but he didn’t actually make any announcement or say what.

Probably creating more anticipation like a “special stake conference”.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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AdmiralHoldo
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Re: Temple changes

Post by AdmiralHoldo » Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:34 pm

Who still has a TR here? (I don't.) Please return and report!

Cnsl1
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Cnsl1 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:09 pm

AdmiralHoldo wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:34 pm
Who still has a TR here? (I don't.) Please return and report!
As for me and my house, we do not have a TR. None of my children have a TR. My MIL may be rolling in her grave, but fist bumps mostly all around. DW halfway wants one, probably to keep her dear mother from rolling so much. The ambivalence is tough.

Thank you, stupid church rhetoric and empty chairs in heaven.

At least the tables will be full.. we'll be dancing on them.

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nibbler
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Re: Temple changes

Post by nibbler » Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:59 am

Remember the April 2020 general conference? Nothingburgers come in attractive packaging.

There could be changes. I'm not expecting much given recent changes and given the constraints that the church has to work within. The ceremony itself is weird and it doesn't look like it will be as easy to place rising generations under a spell not to see that.

All things weird aside, all things sexist aside, I probably would have attended more if the endowment sessions weren't so long. Many recent changes have had the spirit of "less is more." Maybe the new change would be an endowment lite. Stripped down sessions where just the absolute essentials are done and the exhaustive narratives are skipped. Maybe even changing to nothing but the veil approach where patrons bang out 10 endowments in a row similar to baptisms.

Under a plan like that they'd still offer the full endowment for first timers and anyone that wanted the full experience. Maybe reserve times in the day for full vs. lite sessions.
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

Red Ryder
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:03 am

I’d love to see a drive through built in.

Like a Las Vegas style chapel drive through. :lol:
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

Reuben
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Reuben » Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:13 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:03 am
I’d love to see a drive through built in.

Like a Las Vegas style chapel drive through. :lol:
Would they do a car washing and anointing? Holy underbody sealant instead of holy garments? Would we start hearing stories of miraculous delivery from crashes, rush-hour traffic, and windshield chips?

Speaking of delivery, can we consider delivery options? Could PJ&J show up at my front door in their true character as apostles for the theatrical version of the endowment? Or would I get an older gentleman with an iPad, trying not to fall asleep while standing? Civvies or white suits?
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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Culper Jr.
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Culper Jr. » Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:31 am

Wife went to the temple yesterday. She said it was much shorter, like an hour and 15 minutes (I think). She said that they cut out a lot of the repetition (wouldn't expound, but I think they cut out a lot of the "we will go down" repetition). Of course, not doing all the individual token giving stuff saves time because they don't have to go out to each person. She said they have "touchless check in" where you scan the recommend yourself and an authoritative PH leader looks on. I think she felt rather empowered by that the way she talked about it. She said they upgraded all of the furniture in there as well. They are still using the "powerpoint slideshow" with the Ken Burns effect instead of a movie. I said, "I'm sure they do that so they can keep changing the wording and don't have to re-shoot the movie." I meant the comment as a cut to the church but she took it as insightful as she has no problem with them changing the unchangeable ordinances.

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2bizE
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Re: Temple changes

Post by 2bizE » Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:25 am

I didn’t watch conference, but I saw the transcript of what he said about the changes. To me, it sounded like a teaser to keep people watching….they do it on tv all the time… “Are huge changes coming in the weather for the weekend? Tune in to 2 News at 10 to find out”
~2bizE

hmb
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Re: Temple changes

Post by hmb » Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:39 am

nibbler wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:59 am

All things weird aside, all things sexist aside, I probably would have attended more if the endowment sessions weren't so long. Many recent changes have had the spirit of "less is more." Maybe the new change would be an endowment lite. Stripped down sessions where just the absolute essentials are done and the exhaustive narratives are skipped. Maybe even changing to nothing but the veil approach where patrons bang out 10 endowments in a row similar to baptisms.
If I were one of the dead waiting for my work to get done, I'd feel cheated at the new, skimpy, skeletal session. I wouldn't feel special. I would feel belittled, or less than. Hey, I would feel like a mormon.

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alas
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Re: Temple changes

Post by alas » Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:16 pm

hmb wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:39 am
nibbler wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:59 am

All things weird aside, all things sexist aside, I probably would have attended more if the endowment sessions weren't so long. Many recent changes have had the spirit of "less is more." Maybe the new change would be an endowment lite. Stripped down sessions where just the absolute essentials are done and the exhaustive narratives are skipped. Maybe even changing to nothing but the veil approach where patrons bang out 10 endowments in a row similar to baptisms.
If I were one of the dead waiting for my work to get done, I'd feel cheated at the new, skimpy, skeletal session. I wouldn't feel special. I would feel belittled, or less than. Hey, I would feel like a mormon.
That was how I felt about getting endowed during the long 1970 live version. It felt like an assembly line to get married and I felt that made it nothing special, like we as individuals were not important even on our wedding day.

I think the church shoots itself in the foot by making out the the endowment is this wonderful, spiritual experience, especially when they build it up to the YW as the most special day of their life, then they find out they are married by an assembly line and it is so NOT special compared to a “real wedding.”

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deacon blues
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Re: Temple changes

Post by deacon blues » Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:56 am

You can fool some people all of the time and all people some of the time. As time passes I believe more people will see that the ordinances are poppycock. :roll:
It's all a stage show that leads up to the vow to give your heart & soul to the LDS Church. :(
Last edited by deacon blues on Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

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Corsair
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Corsair » Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:19 pm

I am, in fact, one of those rare and prevaricating individuals with a current temple recommend. "That sounds nuts!" I hear you say. "Why would you do that? How do you do that?" The short answer is that I am clearly wired differently than most apostates as Red Ryder, Beetbox, and AZ Flyer can attest.

But my dear wife wanted to attend an endowment session for her birthday among other things. She also had us do sealings another evening. Here are the new things that I recall:
  • You cannot just walk into the temple and sign up for the latest session of anything at all. You have to sign up online for a reservation like you were going to a movie, (which you largely are doing, of course).
  • You are supposed to wear a face mask at all times in the temple no matter your vaccination status (or conspiracy theory status)
  • But the mask rule is not always enforced based on one guy in the the sealing session who was not corrected by the temple sealer
  • There are automated, touchless hand sanitizer stations in plenty of key spots. They are quiet, but not entirely silent. This becomes a frequent sound heard during the handshake session of the endowment.
  • However, only the proxy Adam and Eve actually do the handshakes with the endowment officiator. The rest of the company is simply shown a photograph of the handshake on the screen.
  • The other hand signs (and implied penalties) still persist with "the fingers close together and the thumb extended"
  • The temple robes go on your right shoulder and is never switched from the left
  • The ribbon tying your hat to the shoulder of your robe has been removed
  • The true order of prayer goes off just like you remember it. While masks and hand sanitizer are now rules, social distancing is clearly not.
  • Going through the veil is also largely the same, but hand sanitizer is available both before and after
  • Women can now be witnesses in sealing sessions
  • But with the mask rule you don't kiss anyone across the altar. Presumably a couple actually getting married would kiss
  • The movie appears to be the same but some of the visuals were updated. You may recall that three new movies came out in 2013 and now at least two of the movies have been made into the new "PowerPoint" format.
  • The whole event may be a little shorter, but not by much
  • I did not do initiatory and have no real plans to do them. According to my wife the ceremony is pretty much the same since they removed the shield and actually putting on the new garment each time. You just wear basic white clothing during the ordination prayers.
These are not exciting changes. The changes are cosmetic and enforce health codes and will probably cut down on illness of temple workers.

I can openly state one fact that both the apostates and faithful will agree on: the temple endowment ceremony carries just as much spiritual power as it did before any changes.

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Palerider
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Palerider » Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:52 pm

As I listened to conference this time, I heard multiple times (probably from Bednar and Nelson the most) that it's critical to "bind" ourselves to Christ through the temple ordinances.
This concept of "binding" is not doctrinal in my opinion. As a matter of fact I think it's a corruption of the true Gospel of Christ.
One of the speakers made the statement that whenever the Lord has had a people willing to follow him they have built temples. This is a blatant misrepresentation. Think of all the Christians who were martyred for their testimony of Christ in the first and second centuries. They were more than willing to follow Christ. And yet there wasn't any attempt that I know of, by any church leadership after Christ to build a temple.

Instead Christians were told that THEY were the temple of God and that it was their love of God that created the bond between them. The first or "Old" covenant which operated through temple ordinances of sacrifice to make men and women "ritually" clean, had been fulfilled. It was no longer necessary.

As Paul says in Romans:

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father......

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

LDS temple ordinances don't bind us to God.

They only temporally chain us to an organization that has a foundation of sand.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

Cnsl1
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Cnsl1 » Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:01 am

Corsair, I'm curious. Do the face masks in the temple have to be white?

Is everyone given a light blue disposable mask to wear, or do they bring in what they have? It might be cool to see a multi variation of mask colors.

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Hagoth
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Hagoth » Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:18 am

Palerider wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:52 pm
This concept of "binding" is not doctrinal in my opinion.
In fact, it's occult language that was familiar to Joseph Smith. Here's his family's St. Peter Bind Them parchment from their treasure digging, ghost wrangling days. Binding is about using magic to compel spirits to do your bidding.
Image
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Palerider
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Palerider » Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:21 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 6:18 am
Palerider wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:52 pm
This concept of "binding" is not doctrinal in my opinion.
In fact, it's occult language that was familiar to Joseph Smith. Here's his family's St. Peter Bind Them parchment from their treasure digging, ghost wrangling days. Binding is about using magic to compel spirits to do your bidding.
Image
Excellent catch Hagoth. The "binding" concept certainly appeals to Nelson. He and Bednar both emphasize that godly power comes only through the ordinances. As I have pointed out before, the old prophets and the Savior all said that God prefers a merciful heart over the sacrifice of animals.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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2bizE
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Re: Temple changes

Post by 2bizE » Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:31 pm

I think RMN may reintroduce the Secret Sealing. A man can be sealed to any woman he desires living or dead. Of course there would be a sealing fee. However, if Man A is sealed to a woman, and later, Man B requests to be sealed to the same woman, Man B will trump Man A. This will keep the men returning to the temple to get their sealing mojo going. For a significant fee, a man can lock in the sealing of his choice and not be overridden by another man.
I’ve requested Audrey Hepburn, Heidi Klum, and Scarlett Johansson.
Also, women can be unsealed from their husbands without them knowing as part of the Secret Unsealing program…for a large service fee of course.
~2bizE

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Mormorrisey » Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:21 am

Cnsl1 wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:01 am
Corsair, I'm curious. Do the face masks in the temple have to be white?

Is everyone given a light blue disposable mask to wear, or do they bring in what they have? It might be cool to see a multi variation of mask colors.
Not to steal Corsair's thunder, but I've been to a session lately as well, and the only stipulation on masks is that they cannot have logos on them. So no MAGA masks allowed! It was cool to see different colours, although most had the blue disposible ones.

Of course, given that kind of freedom, I picked the blackest mask I could find, to illustrate my cold, dark, apostate heart.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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Evil_Bert
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Re: Temple changes

Post by Evil_Bert » Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:39 pm

I asked my parents who are in the local temple presidency and the only guidance the temple department sent was covering nose and mouth. No logos and preferably single color.

I know that my dad has told people to put on a mask or they will need to leave. He has also told me about telling a number of people that lace masks aren't acceptable.
Illegitimi non carborundum.

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