Ancient origins of the temple ceremony?

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Red Ryder
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Ancient origins of the temple ceremony?

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:40 pm

I attended sacrament meeting this past Sunday to listen to my niece give her first talk in church. She did a great job.

The adult speaker was a woman who was a convert to the church. She discussed her testimony of the temple. She started by saying it was weird at first because the temple prep class didn’t prepare her for the real thing. She was so confused. She relayed she was told to attend more and to look into the origins of the temple through her scriptures. She claimed to have attended an institute class where she learned all about the temple that resolved her concerns.

Mainly:
Use of the words “Washing”, “ever lasting covenant”, and “garments” in the Old Testament.

I’m half tempted to send her more information but at the end of the day “not my monkey, not my circus...”

But this got me thinking of developing a strong answer that allows for a better discussion.

Joseph Smith’s development in conjunction with polygamy.
Masonic origins
Book of Abraham connection (problematic since Church essay topics debunk the Book of Abraham? )
The LDS temple endowment is likewise regarded as a restoration of ancient temple ordinances that "have been the same in all dispensations," according to Elder Bruce R. McConkie. The Mormon ritual was restored "in modern times to the Prophet Joseph Smith by revelation, many things connected with them being translated by the Prophet from the papyrus on which the Book of Abraham was recorded."6 LDS writer Hyrum Andrus concurs, citing Smith's explanations of figures 3 and 8 of Facsimile 2 of the Book of Abraham as evidence that "Joseph Smith obtained the essential covenants, keywords, etc. of the temple ceremony from the writings of Abraham."7
Any other bullet points to expound on?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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wtfluff
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Re: Ancient origins of the temple ceremony?

Post by wtfluff » Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:53 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:40 pm
... Masonic origins ...
Don't forget to mention that the Masons invented their ceremony in the 1500's if I recall correctly? (Nothing to do with Solomon's temple, or anything "ancient.")
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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moksha
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Re: Ancient origins of the temple ceremony?

Post by moksha » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:02 am

Bet any naysayers would be surprised to learn that God was already a 32nd Degree Mason and wished to have the ceremony recreated in future Mormon Temples.

Tokens to the left
Tokens to the right
On apron, off apron
Fight, fight, fight!

Go Temples!!!
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Red Ryder
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Re: Ancient origins of the temple ceremony?

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:55 pm

moksha wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:02 am

Tokens to the left
Tokens to the right
On apron, off apron
Fight, fight, fight!

Go Temples!!!
Damnit penguin!

That’s funny....
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Corsair
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Re: Ancient origins of the temple ceremony?

Post by Corsair » Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:46 pm

The ancient origins of the LDS temple ceremony are rarely more than parallel-omania. We can find ancient ceremonies that appear to have elements of the modern ceremony, but there are multiple problems with this idea.

First, the parallels are almost never with Solomon's temple ceremonies in 900 BC or any ceremonies that Jesus observed in 30 AD. The repeated sacrifices and burning of animals made the ancient Jewish temple into a virtual abbatoir with rivers of blood coming down the steps. Yes, the sacrifice of Jesus would have ended this practice, but nothing in the modern temple looks anything like it, especially since the pantomime suicide was removed in 1990.

Having parallels between modern LDS temples and Egyptian practices is hardly a positive aspect. Ancient Jews saw Egypt as a sinful place to escape from, not emulate. The fact that Egypt had a plan of salvation and an afterlife is the thinnest of common beliefs for a modern LDS temple. Egyptian practices match nothing about what God was trying to explain in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

Finally, the modern ceremony looks a bit more like a Gnostic mystery cult complete with sacred/secret ceremonies that you don't get to know about before hand. In contrast, a respectful visitor to a Catholic mass can take all of the photographs he might want. But the 19 year old boy or girl ready for mission or marriage walks into an LDS temple mostly blind.

The ultimate point of the Gnostic mystery cults of 2000 years ago was the secret, revealed knowledge at the end of a long period of preparation, deep inside a temple. The LDS ceremony emulates that aspect far too closely with believing family telling the non-temple attenders how wonderful the Celestial room is. I am not at all convinced by the rhetoric and doctrinal assertions about LDS temples.

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2bizE
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Re: Ancient origins of the temple ceremony?

Post by 2bizE » Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:05 pm

There was also a bit of beer drinking in the early days of Mormon temples.
They used to gather is a circle, raise a large stein full of beer above their heads and while lowering it chant these words “Pale ale, pale ale, pale ale” repeated three times. This was to soften up the beer god and always keep him/her on their side.
Over time, this cult ordinance evolved slightly.
~2bizE

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Hagoth
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Re: Ancient origins of the temple ceremony?

Post by Hagoth » Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:10 am

Corsair wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:46 pm
The ancient origins of the LDS temple ceremony are rarely more than parallel-omania. We can find ancient ceremonies that appear to have elements of the modern ceremony...
Nibley's Message of the Joseph Smith Papyri mentions an Egyptian papyrus that associates the colors white and green with temple worship. He seems to think that's a mic drop piece of evidence, and so did I when I desperately needed such minor parallels to seem impressive. It turns out that Egyptian art overwhelmingly shows priests in white with lapis lazuli (blue) jewelry. So, just another example of picking a cherry from a mountain of plums.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: Ancient origins of the temple ceremony?

Post by moksha » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:49 pm

Reprinted from 2019:

Temple evolution is definitely one of those controversial subjects among the Saints.

Some who hold with the Young America theory, contend that the Temple in Salt Lake has been around since its creation, about 6,000 years ago. Certain scholars at Utah Valley University contend that Temples evolved from a rock outcropping at Adam-ondi-Ahman Missouri, to the ancient Temple of Solomon in Israel, to the gothic splendor of the Salt Lake City Temple.

These so-called "Temple Evolutionists" have even been so bold as to point out that divergent species such as the Cathedral of Notre Dame, and the Familia Sagrada Basilica in Barcelona, and the Crystal Cathedral in Orange Grove, California exist as proof of Temple evolution. Temple fundamentalists insist that these other structures do not exist or were planted by Satan to deceive the faithful.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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