The Church and the Rule of Law

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blazerb
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The Church and the Rule of Law

Post by blazerb » Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:56 pm

A while ago I was talking to a nevermo friend who has been helping me as I deconstruct my beliefs. We were talking about the leadership, and I mentioned the rumors that RMN is sealed to someone who is not his legal wife. I'm guessing most have heard them. Anyway, my friend asked, "Would that be allowed." Without thinking much, I replied, "He's the president. He can do whatever he wants." This blew my friend away, the thought that there are no solid rules that govern how the church is run at the highest levels. I started to really think how strange this is. Most groups have specific rules for the leaders, but there are none in Mormonism that we can count on.

If such rules existed, the rumors could be dismissed quickly. The behavior would not be allowed, but who knows what is allowed for our leaders. Even if RMN were discovered to be acting in a very inappropriate way, the concerns of the other leaders would not be for his well-being or his salvation. It would all be about keeping it secret so that the church is not damaged. I don't know that they could do anything anyway. He's the guy with the $150 billion or so. How would they get him to change? Throw in the 2nd anointing, and he has no worries at all.

Anyway, this has to be a symptom of an unhealthy group where there is no accountability for the leadership.

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Hagoth
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Re: The Church and the Rule of Law

Post by Hagoth » Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:13 am

blazerb wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:56 pm
...and I mentioned the rumors that RMN is sealed to someone who is not his legal wife.
Slow down, you're going too fast for me. who are we talking about here? Sherry Dew?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Rob4Hope
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Re: The Church and the Rule of Law

Post by Rob4Hope » Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:37 am

Hagoth wrote:
blazerb wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:56 pm
...and I mentioned the rumors that RMN is sealed to someone who is not his legal wife.
Slow down, you're going too fast for me. who are we talking about here? Sherry Dew?
Ditto for me. Who are we talking about?


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Red Ryder
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Re: The Church and the Rule of Law

Post by Red Ryder » Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:34 am

Rob4Hope wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:37 am
Hagoth wrote:
blazerb wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:56 pm
...and I mentioned the rumors that RMN is sealed to someone who is not his legal wife.
Slow down, you're going too fast for me. who are we talking about here? Sherry Dew?
Ditto for me. Who are we talking about?


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I thought the rumors were connecting Sherry and Wendy in a secret symbiotic relationship.

As far as rules go, isn’t he bound by the same rules we are? Law of chastity. Word of wisdom. Etc?

As far as breaking rules, how is a 95?? year old man with numerous handlers going to be secretly sneaking around breaking all the Mormon rules?

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1smartdodog
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Re: The Church and the Rule of Law

Post by 1smartdodog » Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:10 am

The church is a more benevolent authoritarian regime. Those at the top can do what they want with no one to resist. There is no mechanism to put a stop to crazy behavior. Short of outright rebellion the leader rules with absolute authority.


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blazerb
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Re: The Church and the Rule of Law

Post by blazerb » Sun Apr 10, 2022 11:59 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:13 am
blazerb wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:56 pm
...and I mentioned the rumors that RMN is sealed to someone who is not his legal wife.
Slow down, you're going too fast for me. who are we talking about here? Sherry Dew?
Yes, Sister Dew. I have no idea how reliable the rumors are, though. She is always around.

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deacon blues
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Re: The Church and the Rule of Law

Post by deacon blues » Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:52 pm

Joseph Smith famously said, “That which is wrong in one set of circumstances is right in another.”
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

dogbite
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Re: The Church and the Rule of Law

Post by dogbite » Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:06 pm

The details here strike me as no better than gossip.

Lacking evidence, it's just noise.

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blazerb
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Re: The Church and the Rule of Law

Post by blazerb » Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:40 pm

dogbite wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:06 pm
The details here strike me as no better than gossip.

Lacking evidence, it's just noise.
You are absolutely right. I didnt say it very well. My point is that in the discussion I could not rule out the rumor because there are no limits on what the president can do. There are probably few limits on any of the Q15. The lack of firm rules is what bothers me.

dogbite
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Re: The Church and the Rule of Law

Post by dogbite » Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:43 pm

Absent a law or demonstrable harm, why do we need to constrain the q15 actions?

Assuming Dew Nelson engaged in ritualized magical recitations about their eternal relationship, and it harm none (to lift a little more magic reference) so what? People from many belief systems think they're doing the same kinds of things in their rituals.

Transubstantiation bothers me more just from the flesh eating thing that otherwise is illegal.

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blazerb
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Re: The Church and the Rule of Law

Post by blazerb » Sun Apr 10, 2022 5:21 pm

dogbite wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:43 pm
Absent a law or demonstrable harm, why do we need to constrain the q15 actions?
Point taken. I will continue to try to release my bitterness about things that really did harm me.

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Hagoth
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Re: The Church and the Rule of Law

Post by Hagoth » Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:13 pm

dogbite wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:43 pm
Assuming Dew Nelson engaged in ritualized magical recitations about their eternal relationship, and it harm none (to lift a little more magic reference) so what?
As I see it, it's not that they're doing weird stuff, it's that they get to make exclusive rules and play Second Anointing games for the elite noble class while excluding the filthy commoners.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

dogbite
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Re: The Church and the Rule of Law

Post by dogbite » Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:21 pm

blazerb wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 5:21 pm
dogbite wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:43 pm
Absent a law or demonstrable harm, why do we need to constrain the q15 actions?
Point taken. I will continue to try to release my bitterness about things that really did harm me.
If you were harmed, you're welcome to be bitter and complain and sue if you like.

I think we want to complain about anything in Mormonism, and that is its own punishment on us too often.

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deacon blues
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Re: The Church and the Rule of Law

Post by deacon blues » Mon Apr 11, 2022 11:31 am

deacon blues wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:52 pm
Joseph Smith famously said, “That which is wrong in one set of circumstances is right in another.”
My point above is that in the Church the Prophet is the Law. It is Joseph Smith and/or Pres. Nelson that decides what is right and wrong. There are many stories from the early Church to the present, that this is the rule of law.

"verily thus saith the Lord, ye are my constitution, and I am your God. (Joseph Smith Papers, Council of Fifty p. 137. April 25, 1844)
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

dogbite
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Re: The Church and the Rule of Law

Post by dogbite » Tue Apr 12, 2022 9:20 am

It occurs to me this morning as I glance at this again that this topic is an example of divine command theory in operation.

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