Comparing the Historicity of Ramses II and Moses.

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deacon blues
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Comparing the Historicity of Ramses II and Moses.

Post by deacon blues » Sun Jul 10, 2022 7:40 pm

I wonder if TBM's are aware that we have contemporary records of Ramses II but not Moses. Heck, we have Ramses II's mummy. The physical evidence of Moses doesn't appear until the Dead Sea Scrolls, 1000 or more years after he supposedly lived.
The significance physical ancient records of the Egyptian and Sumerian civilizations, contrasted with the uncertainty of the origins the the Torah/Old Testament is not being recognized by Christian literalists, including LDS. When I took a college course, World Civilization, it gave me at least a basic understanding of the the history of Mankind- and it didn't begin with Genesis.
I wonder- do most college degrees require a World History/World Civilization course? Personally I think it would be important.
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

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deacon blues
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Re: Comparing the Historicity of Ramses II and Moses.

Post by deacon blues » Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:05 pm

One thing evangelical Christians cite as evidence or proof of the Old Testament/Torah is its "miraculous" preservation over the millennia. What about the amazing preservation of the tests on the mortuary temple of Ramses III at Karnak? (1184-1153 BCE)
It seems that when we critically examine the O.T./Torah it seems very likely to contain more myth than history.
Sadly, LDS courses, Sunday School and/or Institute will not be critically oriented.
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

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moksha
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Re: Comparing the Historicity of Ramses II and Moses.

Post by moksha » Sun Jul 10, 2022 11:28 pm

Let's do a comparison of the opening lines:

Bereshis 1
Orthodox Jewish Bible
1 In the beginning Elohim created hashomayim (the heavens, Himel) and haaretz (the earth).

Chapter 1
LOTR
When Mr. Bilbo Baggins of Bag End announced that he would shortly be celebrating his eleventy-first birthday with a party of special magnificence, there was much talk and excitement in Hobbiton.

Immediately you can see that Professor Tolkien of Merton College, Oxford was the better writer despite innumerable redactors for the Bible.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Hagoth
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Re: Comparing the Historicity of Ramses II and Moses.

Post by Hagoth » Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:52 pm

The closest thing we have is the mention of some people called Israelites, a few centuries after Moses, who Pharaoh Merneptah claimed to have wiped out.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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Just This Guy
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Re: Comparing the Historicity of Ramses II and Moses.

Post by Just This Guy » Tue Jul 12, 2022 4:48 am

Something else that many people don't realize is that there is nothing that actually ties Ramses II to Moses. It is purely a Hollywood invention that has been taken as fact by most people.

Ramses is never mentioned in the Bible or Jewish writing. They mention the city of Rameses, but no mention the the name of the Pharaoh that Moses is butting heads with is given.

Pinning everything on Ramses II was first done by the 1956 movie. It has become such a culturally regarded "fact" that everyone thinks it, but there is no actual evidence to link them, even in the bible, let alone actual real life evidence.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

stuck
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Re: Comparing the Historicity of Ramses II and Moses.

Post by stuck » Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:14 pm

I have been listening to the history in the Bible podcast recently by Gary Stevens. It is fairly succinct, but interesting and it does take more of a critical approach. https://www.historyinthebible.com/ It averages about 25 to 30 mins per episode.

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