The Brighamite God.

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deacon blues
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The Brighamite God.

Post by deacon blues » Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:41 am

I've been pondering the characteristics of the God LDS prophets have preached through the years with the type of God I think most LDS/Mormons believe in.
I see significant differences.
The LDS Church teaches a changeable god who will exaggerate, deceive, and lie. See: D&C 19:6-12, Abraham 2:22-24, Essay: "Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo," especially the 'carefully-worded denial' paragraph, and the "Conclusion." Also see: www.ldsdiscussions.com/happiness. (A "Happiness Letter" discussion.) There are many other examples.
I hope its okay to cite your blog Jfro18. :)
To distinguish this god I will call Him "The Brighamite god." this name is useful in clarifying differences between gods the leaders and members refer to, and even try to conflate. Don't confuse Him with the FLDS god, although they have similarities.
The "Brighamite god" has given us clear examples of his metaphysical existence, if not His reality. He made the decision to institute the Priesthood ban, to cover up the Mountain Meadows Massacre, and numerous other travesties. The "Brighamite God" instituted plural marriage, and also the ambiguous 'official' discontinuation of it. This includes the manipulative proposals, and the hypocritical persecution of those who practiced polygamy after the Manifesto. To me the "Brighamite god" appears suspiciously identical to the Church/Corporation known as "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
Most LDS/Mormons believe God is more honest, and kinder than the Brighamite god.
Whether innocently, or through willful ignorance and/or denial they may repudiate the evidence of such a god. But the evidence is real.
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

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jfro18
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Re: The Brighamite God.

Post by jfro18 » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:39 am

I agree with all of this so much - the version of God in Mormonism is just so different than the God that is portrayed at General Conference and reading Joseph Smith's claimed revelations from this version of God is such a giant red flag that either Joseph Smith made it up with the Mormon God kind of sucks at managing the universe.

I recorded the last polygamy episode yesterday and it was hard to not be dismissive of how dumb this all is - when you break down polygamy (Happiness Letter is a perfect example of that) you can see Joseph Smith fumbling all over himself to make this work while at the same time wanting us to believe it's God that can't keep this stuff straight.

It's cartoonishly stupid and we never realize it as believing members because we don't stop and read this stuff at face value.

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Ghost
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Re: The Brighamite God.

Post by Ghost » Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:34 pm

This makes me think of the timeless attempts to square God in the Old Testament with Jesus in the New Testament. The OT version of God is often petulant and vicious. Some of that spills over into Mormonism, of course, like the time that Jesus took credit for destroying all those cities in the Book of Mormon.

It would be interesting to consider what God thinks is important at different points in history based on various scriptures. In the Doctrine and Covenants, it's often money. In some of the Old Testament books, it's relentless killing. You occasionally get some kindness in there, too, if you know where to look.

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wtfluff
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Re: The Brighamite God.

Post by wtfluff » Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:05 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:41 am
'''
"The Brighamite god." this name is useful in clarifying differences between gods the leaders and members refer to, and even try to conflate. Don't confuse Him with the FLDS god, although they have similarities.
...
Similarities?

Or maybe differences?

I mean, there are some VERY slight differences between FLDS god, and Brighamite god. VERY slight... And then Brighamite god goes ahead and reinstates those differences after death, so... What are the differences again???


:twisted:


If you truly want to "follow the prophet" (Joseph) the FLDS folks are doing a much better job than the Brighamites.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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deacon blues
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Re: The Brighamite God.

Post by deacon blues » Mon Nov 14, 2022 11:19 am

You are right wtfluff. Differences between Brighamite god and FLDS god are not substantial, especially if you are a man. One big difference for women: FLDS god doesn't let women have much say in who they are going to marry. Brighamite god does let LDS women have a say in who they marry in most cases.
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

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wtfluff
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Re: The Brighamite God.

Post by wtfluff » Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:01 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 11:19 am
You are right wtfluff. Differences between Brighamite god and FLDS god are not substantial, especially if you are a man. One big difference for women: FLDS god doesn't let women have much say in who they are going to marry. Brighamite god does let LDS women have a say in who they marry in most cases.
Will Brighamite god let LDS women have a say in who they marry in the afterlife? I mean, according to MORmON lore, there will be WAY too many women in the afterlife as opposed to those wicked men-folk. Will Elohim really give women a choice? Won't all righteous women who lost their wicked husband just end up wanting to be "sealed" to Joseph? Or Jesus or Elohim for that matter?

Dang it Deacon, you've got my fluffy, twisted-up brain thinking about way too many scenarios related to "whatever" MORmON god and polygamy now. Why can't MORmONism leave my brain alone??? :?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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deacon blues
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Re: The Brighamite God.

Post by deacon blues » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:11 pm

When I got my endowments is 1975, I made my vows to the Brighamite god. Yup, that character that told Abraham and Joseph smith to lie about their wives. That character that told Nephi to chop off Laban's head. The god that inspired Brigham to proclaim Black people could not have the priesthood, at least until every other man got their chance first. The person who wiped out the earth's population with a flood and started over with Noah and his sons. :?
Then I realized how unlikely that god was. I had made a vow with a myth. :o
But I also made my vows with the church. I promised it everything I had or would have. The Church is real. It exists. It's a corporation that has huge power and influence. If that church ever becomes the greatest power on earth (very unlikely, but not impossible) who knows what it might try to do to me. :shock:
But that Church wasn't what it said it was. It still is not what it says it is. :(
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

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