NOM

I am probably different from a lot of you in that I am probably close to many on the belief/non-belief side but feel like I have actually found a good niche in continuing to participate and embracing cafeteria Mormonism. I had to teach an EQ lesson on Nelson's talk about finding rest from the last conference. I felt like I was able to use it as a starting place for a good discussion about "the world" being about unattainable ideals and finding peace in lasting things like relationships and service. We talked about the ChatGPT bot and how technology is constantly requiring adaptation and keeping end goals in mind, even if the means (writing high school essays) will need to change in light of a new technology. I feel like I'm able to weave in different wisdom traditions and it usually ends up being a good discussion and I try to include something for everyone on the spectrum of belief.

One thing that stood out to me in the talk is that he gives a blessing to everyone and invokes the authority of the apostleship. I found this interesting as he is the president of the church and it would seem that he would have a higher authority than the apostleship. Was this an unintentional peak behind the curtain that the church is governed by a council of 15 apostles who rotate into the first presidency?

I think it’s more pomp and circumstance then a slip of sorts. Everyone knows and understands the one prophet 14 Apostle model and sees the one prophet as extra special compared to the rest. I always thought the Prophet was honed and developed through their time as an apostle and that was the methodology God took to prepare them for their special time to be Prophet.

Now I just think it’s all geriatrics and a power hold.

Hinckley actually ran the church.
Monson just held on and pretended to.
Nelson so far has just changed the things he hasn’t liked.
Oaks will probably do more harm.

Meanwhile the exodus continues because the church has lost relevance and refuses to change for the better.

However, presenting authority as goods and services only benefits those who belief in the intangible.

I’m sure all of us would love an apostolic blessing if we truly believed in such.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:41 pm Meanwhile the exodus continues because the church has lost relevance and refuses to change for the better.

It will eventually, but probably too little too late. I have come to the conclusion that the prophets of the Mormon church will receive prophesy on major religiopolitical issues like same-sex marriage, abortion, etc. as soon as the most outspoken Evangelical churches do so. The only churches that have survived into modernity have done so by changing, even though they will be the last to admit to their plasticity. All you have to do is look at the history of ANY Mormon doctrine to see how much things can change.

felixfabulous wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:06 am One thing that stood out to me in the talk is that he gives a blessing to everyone and invokes the authority of the apostleship. I found this interesting as he is the president of the church and it would seem that he would have a higher authority than the apostleship. Was this an unintentional peak behind the curtain that the church is governed by a council of 15 apostles who rotate into the first presidency?

I can only speculate, which I find fun. It could have been an unintentional slip. It could also be an intentional solidifying of apostolic authority. RMN needs his helpers to maintain the status of the church in members' lives. That might require giving the non-first-presidency apostles a little boost in their status, too. Or maybe he just views his apostleship as his primary identity. COB-ology is like the Kremlinology of the 80's. We mostly have to guess what's going on behind the scenes based on what we can see.

Apostles- now that's an enigma is it not?

We have no idea who the original twelve apostles were (sixth article of faith). Oops. The Bible is no help as they list different ones in different books. Paul- who was that chap and how'd he get to be an apostle? No one knows. Half of the New Testament are his letters and scholars know full well he didn't write them all.

Peter? How'd an illiterate fisherman become the head of the church after Christ's death? Yet we have books that he was supposed to have written. Was he the first Pope? No one knows.

In JS time, the church went through apostles quicker than Chris Christy can eat a box of donuts. Revolving doors. Nowadays, we are supposed to treat them like gods almost. I doubt I could name a half dozen of them, and only like two.

Nelson booted out Dieter Uchtdorf out of the first presidency because he was so well liked- still is- and down to earth, that he was afraid he would be overshadowed. Same thing happened to Hugh B. Brown back in the day. Politics.

Maybe to do with priesthood offices? There's the office of Apostle in the MP but there is no office of Prophet, so maybe apostolic blessings are more related to the PH office than the calling of the person that gives it? Could be like a patriarchal blessing, you have to be ordained to the office of Patriarch in the MP to give those.