Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

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Gatorbait
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Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by Gatorbait » Wed Jan 11, 2023 12:50 pm

I know, I know, this dead horse has been beaten to death already, but I've still got the bruised soul and I can't seem to get past people rubbing it in that I don't pay tithing- and, according to them, I will most likely burn in hell. When I tell them that we try to be generous with our goods and money and we help out several charities and people in need, they give me the old worn out phase that someone coined long ago, "Oh you feel free to spend the Lord's money," or the like. To that I say:

1. If it is the Lord's money then why are we having this discussion. He has it. It is his. He can do with it as he pleases then.
2. Where can you find it in the scriptures that the Lord ever asked for, spent and cared about money, apart from advising people- rich people mostly- to give freely to the poor and the needy, but not a church. Never a church.
3. I don't care about burning in hell and I don't buy into that "fire insurance" nonsense either. I've heard all my life that the Lord is coming quickly now, but I see no evidence of it. The church has not filled the earth. What is it .001 percent of the world's population are Mormons? Good grief.

Anyways, the Ward kept bugging me clear up until Christmas to go see the Bishop, who is a kind and loving person whom I like very much, and know he'd just doing what is asked of him, so I don't fault him. But it is a new year, so I can get over it now and wait until the Fall- crud they don't even wait for winter anymore- before they start bugging me again.
"Let no man count himself righteous who permits a wrong he could avert". N.N. Riddell

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nibbler
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Re: Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by nibbler » Wed Jan 11, 2023 1:14 pm

4. If the Lord didn't want me to spend it, why did the Lord give it to me?

5. The Lord takes out my 10% pre-salary. If I didn't pay my tithing, my employer would have paid me $40K per year but since I pay all my tithing pre-salary, I only make about $36K per year.
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
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wtfluff
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Re: Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by wtfluff » Wed Jan 11, 2023 1:15 pm

Gatorbait wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2023 12:50 pm
...
"Oh you feel free to spend the Lord's money,"
...
Another answer along the lines of #1:

"I told The Lord where I was 'spending his money' and he said he was fine with it."
Last edited by wtfluff on Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Red Ryder
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Re: Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:03 pm

I always ask the Lord to take his share when I throw it up in the air towards heaven.

And for some unknown reason I always get 100% back as if he’s telling me “thanks for the offering, but I have $100+ Billion and no need right now!”

Seriously, if you want a quick an easy tithing declaration hack, do this one simple trick!

Text the bishop and say “Bishop, we understand you’re a busy man this time of year as are we, so please mark us down as full tithe payers.

Of course it only works if you actually know his name and phone number.
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Hagoth
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Re: Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by Hagoth » Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:28 am

I take the Captain Kirk approach.
Image
If the creator of the universe, and all of the gold and diamonds in it, was in charge of this church he would have all the money he needs. What money he did require from people would not be horded in a secret rainy day fund. It would be used to help people, like maybe the people freezing to death in the city where God keeps his main vacation home, along with well-heated guest houses on every corner. If a real resurrected Jesus wanted you to give money to help people (apparently he has lost the ability to help anyone directly), I'm sure he would be much happier to see you take some initiative, seek out people in need, and help them, rather than simply writing a check to a shady investment fund that pretends to be a charity for tax reasons.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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nibbler
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Re: Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by nibbler » Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:29 am

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:28 am
If the creator of the universe, and all of the gold and diamonds in it, was in charge of this church he would have all the money he needs.
God managed to create the entire world before I cut him a check for $3.50. Imagine what he can do with my $3.50.
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin

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Hagoth
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Re: Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by Hagoth » Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:03 pm

nibbler wrote:
Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:29 am
Hagoth wrote:
Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:28 am
If the creator of the universe, and all of the gold and diamonds in it, was in charge of this church he would have all the money he needs.
God managed to create the entire world before I cut him a check for $3.50. Imagine what he can do with my $3.50.
Buy coffee!
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hermey
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Re: Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by Hermey » Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:54 am

First off, stop conversing with these idiots about tithing (or anything else) that you would prefer not to discuss. It's nothing but an emotionally draining exercise in futility for you (as it would be for most all of us.)

The only reply to give if they bring up tithing (or anything else for that matter) to you is the following....

"You know, we're doing great. Thanks for asking! And how are YOU doing?"

This is the response you use for everything regardless of what the question is from the other person. It's a simple technique our therapist taught us early on in the journey down the rabbit hole. I believe he called it "fogging." I used it; my TBM (at the time) wife used it; my kids used it. It's a simple and very effective.

The therapist called it "fogging." It feels a little awkward at first, but then you get used to using it. Think of it as setting a de facto boundary. My wife got really, really good at this. It helped her navigate those unwanted and annoying interactions in an effective way. She was like an angel with a drawn "fogging" sword. :lol:

People can a bit clueless and slow on the uptake, so you will more than likely have to repeat the response several times (during the same interaction) before the other person clues in to move on to something else. This technique can be used for any conversation that you don't wish to have.

Clueless Dolt: "I noticed you haven't signed up for Tithing Declaration yet. You should do that soon."

Gatorbait: "You know, we're doing great. Thanks for asking! And how are YOU doing?"

Clueless Dolt: "Don't you want the Lard's blessings? What kind of example are setting for your family?"

Gatorbait: "You know, we're doing great. Thanks for asking! And how are YOU doing?"

Clueless Dolt: (blinks) "You're on a slippery slope and if you're not careful, you could lose you testimony. Besides, you need to stay on the Covenant path--you made that commitment when you were baptized. People that aren't faithful and stop paying tithing will lose their testimony. It's often the first step down a dark path."

Gatorbait: "You know, we're doing great. Thanks for asking! And how are YOU doing?"

Clueless Dolt: (blinks, still struggling to process your response) "Doing okay. Well, gotta run." (turns and walks away)

Good luck!

Gatorbait
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Re: Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by Gatorbait » Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:23 pm

Hermey, you and your wife are geniuses. Wow- what a great response. I'm going to use you wise advise with many thanks to you.
"Let no man count himself righteous who permits a wrong he could avert". N.N. Riddell

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Just This Guy
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Re: Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by Just This Guy » Sat Jan 21, 2023 7:37 am

I don't remember the exact numbers, but wasn't it leaked that all tithing goes into the Ensign Peak fund, and the church pulls operating expenses from there. They average about $7B in tithing income and only have $5B in expediences, so $2B goes into additional investing for a "rainy day."

So 28.6% of tithing is goes into the slush fund.

Since the church claims that tithing is going build the kingdom, they only need 7% tithing. 3% of it does not go to building the kingdom. Just building more investment finds.

Please feel free to correct me if my numbers are wrong.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

Izhmash
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Re: Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by Izhmash » Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:20 pm

So just a little question here. How would you respond when someone inevitably says "the leaders of the church will be held responsible for how they use the funds. We are just responsible to pay our tithing."

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blazerb
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Re: Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by blazerb » Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:01 am

Izhmash wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:20 pm
So just a little question here. How would you respond when someone inevitably says "the leaders of the church will be held responsible for how they use the funds. We are just responsible to pay our tithing."
Here's my thought: Who's going to hold them responsible? If they are misusing funds, they are clearly not doing God's will. If they are not doing God's will, they cannot be servants of God. They are just men running a investment fund with money taken from others. Some of those others are quite poor. It is immoral. We don't just let Bernie Madoff go free and say that he'll be responsible to God. We stick people like that in prison.

The Q15 are not going to prison. I know that. The only way we can hold them responsible is to stop contributing to their investment fund.

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Linked
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Re: Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by Linked » Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:15 pm

Izhmash wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:20 pm
So just a little question here. How would you respond when someone inevitably says "the leaders of the church will be held responsible for how they use the funds. We are just responsible to pay our tithing."
I might say, "According to who, the people collecting the tithing?"

Or, "I disagree about both of those. The leaders are not and will never be held responsible, and I am not responsible to pay tithing to the church."

The question implies that God picked the church leaders and that God wants you to give the church your money. If someone believes those things then there isn't much you can do to convince them against the good of tithing. But that doesn't mean you have to agree, or give your money to the church.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by Mormorrisey » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:36 am

I've told this story before, but I haven't been to tithing settlement/declaration in nearly a decade. Now, they still want to know my status, so every year I email or text the bishop my status. That's it.

It's pretty easy to say why. Got a new bishop who wanted to know why I don't go. I simply say, "when the church deems it appropriate to let me know what they are doing with tithing funds, I will deem it appropriate to show up and talk about my own finances."

That's worked for a looooong time now. When you say things with a certain amount of chutzpah, you can get away with it.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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Red Ryder
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Re: Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:48 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:36 am
I've told this story before, but I haven't been to tithing settlement/declaration in nearly a decade. Now, they still want to know my status, so every year I email or text the bishop my status. That's it.

It's pretty easy to say why. Got a new bishop who wanted to know why I don't go. I simply say, "when the church deems it appropriate to let me know what they are doing with tithing funds, I will deem it appropriate to show up and talk about my own finances."

That's worked for a looooong time now. When you say things with a certain amount of chutzpah, you can get away with it.
Financial transparency is a two way street.

I’m an accountant so it bothers me when they don’t issue financial statements.
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blazerb
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Re: Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by blazerb » Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:59 am

Mormorrisey wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:36 am
I've told this story before, but I haven't been to tithing settlement/declaration in nearly a decade. Now, they still want to know my status, so every year I email or text the bishop my status. That's it.

It's pretty easy to say why. Got a new bishop who wanted to know why I don't go. I simply say, "when the church deems it appropriate to let me know what they are doing with tithing funds, I will deem it appropriate to show up and talk about my own finances."

That's worked for a looooong time now. When you say things with a certain amount of chutzpah, you can get away with it.
I really like this answer. I've never had a bishop ask for my reasons for not going to settlement. They haven't even asked for my status the last few years.

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by Mormorrisey » Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:04 am

blazerb wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:59 am
Mormorrisey wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:36 am
I've told this story before, but I haven't been to tithing settlement/declaration in nearly a decade. Now, they still want to know my status, so every year I email or text the bishop my status. That's it.

It's pretty easy to say why. Got a new bishop who wanted to know why I don't go. I simply say, "when the church deems it appropriate to let me know what they are doing with tithing funds, I will deem it appropriate to show up and talk about my own finances."

That's worked for a looooong time now. When you say things with a certain amount of chutzpah, you can get away with it.
I really like this answer. I've never had a bishop ask for my reasons for not going to settlement. They haven't even asked for my status the last few years.
Yeah, I'm in a little different boat than many on here. For family and other reasons, I have a current temple recommend, and to justify it they want their books clean that I pay tithing. So that's why I at least email/text my status. But there is absolutely no way I'm showing up for a meeting. Ever again.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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blazerb
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Re: Tithing settlement....or whatever they call it now.

Post by blazerb » Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:52 am

Mormorrisey wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:04 am
Yeah, I'm in a little different boat than many on here. For family and other reasons, I have a current temple recommend, and to justify it they want their books clean that I pay tithing. So that's why I at least email/text my status. But there is absolutely no way I'm showing up for a meeting. Ever again.
You've set a good boundary. Good luck. It's got to be hard.

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