Why does Scripture become irrelavant?

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deacon blues
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Why does Scripture become irrelavant?

Post by deacon blues » Thu Feb 16, 2023 6:28 am

As a kid I felt motivated to read ALL the Old Testament. I plowed through Genesis and Exodus, and then I hit Leviticus, with its mind-numbing descriptions of laws, commandments, sacrifices, and ordinances, and I just could take it. I skipped ahead to Joshua.
I later realized that what was extremely important to ancient Israelites, has little relevance to modern Mormonism, Christianity in general, and perhaps even modern Judaism. (Frankly, I don't know much about modern Judaism.) ;)
Yet it is still "Scripture" and printed along side the rest of the Bible, despite the fact that very few people read it.
I've no doubt that motivated readers can find symbolism or some other mode of reading to make it more relevant, but the fact remains: 95% of scripture readers never read it. For me personally, I have come to relate it to the temple endowment. :roll: ;)
Last edited by deacon blues on Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Why does Scripture become irrelavant?

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:33 am

I believe Father Time has become the catalyst.

Religious theologians realize they can only modify and update ancient writings for so long before they become diluted and meaningfully veered away from the respective authorship.

The Paradox here is that the human mind requires ancient origins to feel relevant while at the same time also requires modernization to feel relevant.

So the Bible stays on the shelf and is brought out on Sunday’s for weekly reading and discussion at church while the rest of the week we turn towards the cute countertop daily calendar that only quotes the good stuff!

Could you imagine if the Book of Mormon was rewritten in a new age format?

Yo, my Daddy left Israel with his favorite sons.
One went back without carrying the guns.
He found the dude with too many drinks
And cut off his head when God said
It’s better that one man parish to save the records
Then we wandered with the scrolls and the plates
While my other brothers began to turn on the hate!

We built a submarine based on my fathers crazy dream
We sailed across the ocean blue
Flip flopping around and covered in poo!
Until we landed in America and set out to build
Another version of our religious guild.

We found favor in the eyes of God
And thrived, thrived thrives what an amazing ride.
We even had horses and a hell lotta hay
Until we grew socio economically and found pride!
Then when it crumbled down we suffered odd
Calamity! Calamity! Calamity! Calamity!

Until one last dude was left name Mormon
Who became the basis of the Book of Mormon
With gold statues of another dude name Moroni
Word to your mother (and her 57 sister wives)!!!!!
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

dogbite
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Re: Why does Scripture become irrelavant?

Post by dogbite » Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:56 am

It becomes irrelevant because it's not really scripture. Time and distance make that clearer.

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Palerider
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Re: Why does Scripture become irrelavant?

Post by Palerider » Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:30 pm

I know, I know....

I'm the out-lier here but I love the Biblical scriptures. I've read the Old Testament at least 4 times and continue to study it frequently. The Old Testament aside from being a witness to Israel of the covenant from Jehovah, gives great meaning and understanding to the New Testament.

One can't fully comprehend the intricacies of New Testament people without understanding a good deal of Old Testament culture.

One of the early church influencers, Marcion, reached the erroneous conclusion that God was done with the Jews and that the Old Testament writings should not be included as a part of the Christian Canon.

So glad early church fathers didn't listen to him. What a loss that would have been.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Hagoth
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Re: Why does Scripture become irrelavant?

Post by Hagoth » Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:48 am

dogbite wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:56 am
It becomes irrelevant because it's not really scripture. Time and distance make that clearer.
What most people fail to realize is that, more than anything, the Old Testament is about establishing who owns land and how to control the people living on that land. There are some nice stories and genuine wisdom, but the rest of it applies specifically to those people in those times.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: Why does Scripture become irrelavant?

Post by Hagoth » Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:54 am

Palerider wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:30 pm
One of the early church influencers, Marcion, reached the erroneous conclusion that God was done with the Jews and that the Old Testament writings should not be included as a part of the Christian Canon.
The Marcionites are awesome. They believed that the Old Testament Yahweh was actually an evil, bumbling tyrant and Jesus came to liberate humanity from him. Marcion called Yahweh The Stranger and The Alien.

It kinda makes more sense than to believe they are the same person, considering their very different demeanors.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Palerider
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Re: Why does Scripture become irrelavant?

Post by Palerider » Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:40 am

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:54 am
Palerider wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:30 pm
One of the early church influencers, Marcion, reached the erroneous conclusion that God was done with the Jews and that the Old Testament writings should not be included as a part of the Christian Canon.
The Marcionites are awesome. They believed that the Old Testament Yahweh was actually an evil, bumbling tyrant and Jesus came to liberate humanity from him. Marcion called Yahweh The Stranger and The Alien.

It kinda makes more sense than to believe they are the same person, considering their very different demeanors.
In my reading I didn't see as much difference as you suggest. What I saw was Yahweh dealing with an extremely unevolved, belligerent, nasty crowd, whether they were Israelite or gentile. Great exploiters of resources and other humans, who would rather give God the finger and enjoy their sin. Vladimir Putin types, only many, many more of them.

So the prescription had to be as strong or stronger than the disease. My thoughts ran closer to the idea that God was in reality, much more patient than those he was dealing with deserved, whether dealing with the gentiles or Israel.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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deacon blues
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Re: Why does Scripture become irrelavant?

Post by deacon blues » Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:34 am

Palerider wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:30 pm
I know, I know....

I'm the out-lier here but I love the Biblical scriptures. I've read the Old Testament at least 4 times and continue to study it frequently. The Old Testament aside from being a witness to Israel of the covenant from Jehovah, gives great meaning and understanding to the New Testament.

One can't fully comprehend the intricacies of New Testament people without understanding a good deal of Old Testament culture.

One of the early church influencers, Marcion, reached the erroneous conclusion that God was done with the Jews and that the Old Testament writings should not be included as a part of the Christian Canon.

So glad early church fathers didn't listen to him. What a loss that would have been.
I like the scriptures generally. I am so glad for parts like Jesus's parables, Paul's writing about charity and lots of other things. And I believe they are still relevant.
Pale, you make a great point here, we can't understand Jesus fully without the Old Testament providing context.
I also think we can't really understand the Old Testament without a background in the history of Palestine, and the records of civilizations that interacted with the Israelites, like Egypt, Samaria, Assyria, etc. and even recent archaeological findings.
Consider how the science of the Cosmos although still in its infancy, probably gave Joseph Smith ideas that informed the Book of Abraham. Nobody, not even LDS astronomers take it seriously. (I hope) But maybe that's a bad example of what I'm trying to say. :oops:
I feel so small when I realize the scope to the universe, and I comprehend so little, but the little I do know is fascinating. :)
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

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Hagoth
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Re: Why does Scripture become irrelavant?

Post by Hagoth » Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:13 pm

Palerider wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:40 am
In my reading I didn't see as much difference as you suggest. What I saw was Yahweh dealing with an extremely unevolved, belligerent, nasty crowd, whether they were Israelite or gentile. Great exploiters of resources and other humans, who would rather give God the finger and enjoy their sin. Vladimir Putin types, only many, many more of them.

So the prescription had to be as strong or stronger than the disease. My thoughts ran closer to the idea that God was in reality, much more patient than those he was dealing with deserved, whether dealing with the gentiles or Israel.
I appreciate that perspective, Palerider.

The more I study about ancient gods and religions the more it appears to me that they are all made up for the same purposes. Some of those purposes are very good, and some are very bad. In general, both the rulers of the Ancient Near East and the gods created in their image all kind of blend in together in their Putin-ness. I like Jesus, though. Not so much Paul, but the enlightened man I imagine Jesus to have been.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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blazerb
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Re: Why does Scripture become irrelavant?

Post by blazerb » Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:50 pm

I have a little different perspective. I understand Palerider's view. I have also read the OT at least 4 times. I find it fascinating for different reasons. Close readings give hints about how the Jewish religion came about. I am also fascinated by ritual. The rituals and commandments are very interesting. Of course, from time to time a relative who is a Biblical studies scholar gives me insight into these issues. They absolutely do not make sense from a modern perspective. However, the people who held these beliefs had reasons for all of them.

I don't know if this makes the OT relevant to me. I recognize, though, that our culture has been impacted by these ideas. There are a lot of people who are getting more political power who have serious misunderstandings about what the Bible means. I think a wider understanding might help stop some of these misuses.

Gatorbait
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Re: Why does Scripture become irrelavant?

Post by Gatorbait » Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:28 pm

Loved the responses to this thread, especially the Red Rider poem.

Interestingly enough, I'm going to go out on a proverbial limb here and say that most NOMs are fairly knowledgeable regarding the LDS standard works and have probably studied them with pure intent really searching for answers. This opposed to the ones who fill the pews each week and parrot the
"I know the church is true or words to that affect." Not long ago I asked a person that is a very good person and TBM if she had ever read the New Testament. The answer was a resounding no. I asked her if she'd read any of the standard works all the way through and family reading time doesn't count. Nope. Yet she is a fine person and very charitable, kind and very loving and understanding. Good person.

When I told her that each year (not since becoming a NOM) I read through all of the standard works apart from portions of the OT that I did not like or could relate to she was flabbergasted. I'd set aside at least 30 minutes each morning for scripture study and I hardly ever missed. I don't think she believed me, then she got this look on her face that told me that she was not going to challenge me.

My guess is that many of you have had similar experiences. You really tried and may still try to understand the scriptures even though there are
ga-zillions of contradictions in them, there's some good stuff in there too- at least I think so. Who can read the words of King Benjamin and toss out the value of the BOM. Those are powerful lessons. The D&C, sections 50, 64 and 121 are favorites of mine. Talking about reason and accountability. Good stuff there- whoever wrote it.

Half way through reading the NT this year. I'm glad I'm doing it. Knowing what I know now as opposed to when I was a TBM, I see a lot of interesting and meaningful lessons. Did they come from God? Who knows? But I do think that there is value in time spent reading and studying scriptures.
"Let no man count himself righteous who permits a wrong he could avert". N.N. Riddell

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