Page 1 of 1
Pride works both ways.
Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:49 pm
by deacon blues
I've heard a dozen or more talks/lessons about how pride led people out of the Church. Has anyone considered how pride might keep people in the Church? On my mission it was a combination of pride and fear that kept me from confronting the criticisms of the Church. Sure some of them were false, but in my gut I knew some of them were true.
Re: Pride works both ways.
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:38 pm
by Hagoth
Yes. Many of us know someone who fancies themselves the "go to guy" in their ward for gospel/scripture/apologetics answers. It is a big part of their identity and they are very proud of the lofty position in which they imagine themselves. As a result, they are very derisive of alternative views, angry at people who question, and uncapable of putting themselves in a humble mindset where they might be vulnerable to ideas that might threaten their prowess.
Re: Pride works both ways.
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:25 pm
by Palerider
Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:38 pm
Yes. Many of us know someone who fancies themselves the "go to guy" in their ward for gospel/scripture/apologetics answers. It is a big part of their identity and they are very proud of the lofty position in which they imagine themselves. As a result, they are very derisive of alternative views, angry at people who question, and uncapable of putting themselves in a humble mindset where they might be vulnerable to ideas that might threaten their prowess.
Ha!
You've just described my mother- and father-in-law. Scarey how self-righteous and condescending these people can be. And yet utterly convinced of their own correctness. It's actually embarrassing for my wife and yet she does love them inspite of their blind spot.
My own parents, who had their own faults as do we all, may not have been as "educated" but at least they were willing to learn.
Re: Pride works both ways.
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:04 pm
by moksha
The reason Socrates was the wisest person in Athens was that he realized how little he knew, and was willing to ask questions to seek answers. He questioned the answers to understand all the ins and out of how the answer was formulated.
Re: Pride works both ways.
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:52 am
by blazerb
I think "Beware of Pride" has become a thought-stopping cliché in the church. It keeps people from considering the real problems and ignores the pride on the other side, as you note. No one can tell me that apostles are not prideful when they require the congregation to stand as they enter or leave the room. Somehow the rules don't apply to them.
Re: Pride works both ways.
Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:27 pm
by Hagoth
moksha wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:04 pm
The reason Socrates was the wisest person in Athens was that he realized how little he knew, and was willing to ask questions to seek answers. He questioned the answers to understand all the ins and out of how the answer was formulated.
And we all know where that got him.
Re: Pride works both ways.
Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:33 pm
by Hagoth
blazerb wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:52 am
I think "Beware of Pride" has become a thought-stopping cliché in the church.
Yes, like so many other words in Mormonism (e.g. translate, modesty, worthiness), pride has developed a new definition. Thinking for yourself is pride. Not being gullible is pride. Failing to obey without question is pride. Bragging for decades about what an amazing missionary you were, or how many chickens you brought to widows one Christmas 50 years ago is not pride. It is humility.
Re: Pride works both ways.
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:31 am
by Palerider
Hagoth wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:33 pm
Bragging for decades about what an amazing missionary you were, or how many chickens you brought to widows one Christmas 50 years ago is not pride. It is humility.
I was walking through the temple one time when a temple worker proudly announced that they had "freed 551 spirits from spirit prison that day!"
I thought, "Really???......you think Heavenly Father keeps good spirits in Spirit Prison with murderers, rapists, thieves, etc., just because they haven't had an earthly ordinance performed for them?"
And here I thought that we were supposed to be judged by our actions and what is in our hearts.
That was when I began to question the validity of vicarious ordinances.
Re: Pride works both ways.
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:19 pm
by moksha
Hagoth wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:27 pm
moksha wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:04 pm
The reason Socrates was the wisest person in Athens was that he realized how little he knew, and was willing to ask questions to seek answers. He questioned the answers to understand all the ins and out of how the answer was formulated.
And we all know where that got him.
He ran up against the General Authorities of Athens who insisted on being obeyed rather than questioned.