God as a human father vs. God is Love

[deacon blues]

I was pondering why Mormons, once they leave the Church, go straight to agnosticism and atheism. I came up with this:
1. When you are taught God is a man, it is hard to nuance that belief.
2. As a Mormon, you have always been taught that the Trinity is illogical.
3. As a Mormon, you have been taught that "God is a Spirit" is heresy.
4. For me, "God is love" has long been a understandable connection of my physical self to the inscrutable God. Even as I hid and buried my doubts about Mormonism, I sought a way to connect to a marvelous, and mostly benevolent reality.
5. God is Love, is my hope, if not my faith.
6. I say hope, because I could be wrong. That is part of my connection with reality as well.

[Ghost]

It's probably different for everyone, but for me it was the Bible (and with it my concept of theism) that fell apart first. Though it was the problems of Mormon history and doctrine that allowed me to realize that it was possible to question the foundational stories and doctrines of the Bible.

I found that in my mind the Bible couldn't really stand without Mormonism (probably for some of the reasons you listed, among others) and obviously Mormonism can't stand without the Bible.

At that point, there was still the possibility of holding on to some sort of theism by putting faith in another tradition or attempting to do so with no tradition at all, but attempting the latter just felt like I was making things up and the former just felt like embracing things that other people have made up (again).

That said, I'm still not comfortable referring to myself as agnostic or atheist. Not sure I will ever claim those labels.

[Hagoth]

Mormon God is just an exalted man, like the guy down the street might be someday if he checks off all the boxes and reports adequate stats. If you lose faith in that process, God slip through your fingers.

The Godhead has been trampled on by wicked religious creeds. The Bible is not translated correctly and many precious truths have been intentionally removed from it. Nothing outside of Mormonism is good, so when Mormonism reveals itself to be false, as it always will to someone who really wants to know (if it's true, not merely THAT it's true) everything comes crashing down.

I think God is Love is just fine by itself. What if God is just a name we use for love? It's still better than a God who is a vengeful, jealous, petty trickster king.

I heard an interesting concept the other day: God is not higher than us, God is wider than us. Hmmm. Still thinking about that one.

I also like to think of God as an experience, more than a person/thing, a verb. Love can also be a verb as well as a noun.

[Hagoth]

Our NOM friend Lucidity pointed out to me the other day that the average guy on the street is more understanding and forgiving than the God of scripture. I would expect the Great God of the Universe to be at least as decent as my own human father. He is not, apparently.

Post-faith-crisis people are often accused of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Maybe love is the baby and God is the bathwater Maybe some religious people are the ones who are too quick to throw out the wrong component of that bath.

[alas]

Our NOM friend Lucidity pointed out to me the other day that the average guy on the street is more understanding and forgiving than the God of scripture. I would expect the Great God of the Universe to be at least as decent as my own human father. He is not, apparently.

Post-faith-crisis people are often accused of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Maybe love is the baby and God is the bathwater Maybe some religious people are the ones who are too quick to throw out the wrong component of that bath.

I would even say that maybe Jesus is the baby and organized religion is the bath water, because if you actually take the words of Jesus, I can accept that. I start having problems with equating him with the God of the Old Testament, or even the literal son of that God. And I have issues with the religions that were organized after he died. I am even iffy about his resurrection. And then the Romans got ahold of the religion of the followers of Jesus and demoted women to unable to have priesthood, and all the translation problems of the OT. And I come up with a big nope.

One translation error is translating “young boys” as “men” where OT says “do not lie with a young boy as you would with a woman.” Not condemning homosexuality, but child abuse.

[Hagoth]

And then the Romans got ahold of the religion of the followers of Jesus and demoted women to unable to have priesthood...

And invented cartoonish religion of witchcraft, which bears no resemblance to anything real people ever actually did or continue to do, to further demonize any woman who dared to continue practicing her religion.

[alas]

And then the Romans got ahold of the religion of the followers of Jesus and demoted women to unable to have priesthood...

And invented cartoonish religion of witchcraft, which bears no resemblance to anything real people ever actually did or continue to do, to further demonize any woman who dared to continue practicing her religion.

Yup, exactly why my daughter went pagan.

[Gatorbait]

It's probably different for everyone, but for me it was the Bible (and with it my concept of theism) that fell apart first. Though it was the problems of Mormon history and doctrine that allowed me to realize that it was possible to question the foundational stories and doctrines of the Bible.

I found that in my mind the Bible couldn't really stand without Mormonism (probably for some of the reasons you listed, among others) and obviously Mormonism can't stand without the Bible.

At that point, there was still the possibility of holding on to some sort of theism by putting faith in another tradition or attempting to do so with no tradition at all, but attempting the latter just felt like I was making things up and the former just felt like embracing things that other people have made up (again).

That said, I'm still not comfortable referring to myself as agnostic or atheist. Not sure I will ever claim those labels.

Good points taken here, I think. I agree with you with your thread, The Bible is, arguably, really the heart of Christianity. Without The Bible- no rule book- everything in Christianity is helter-skelter. But for most of us, we just don't believe The Bible. We don't really believe in entirety any of the scriptures- just bits and pieces. The book that Bart Ehrman wrote, one of his first, "Misquoting Jesus", that was the one that got me doubting the Bible, and like you, my belief in Mormonism started to fade away from there, including the Mormon God or gods.

Sort of makes it difficult to believe in a god of love and use The Bible as your reference. Tough enough to believe in God in any case. Yet, like you, saying that you are agnostic or gasp- atheist- whoa, that is something best kept to yourself, I agree. That's a big matzo ball hanging out there, you say that. Atheists- I sort of have a difficult time believing anyone that says they don't believe in the possibility of there being a god, but that's me.