Does anyone tell the truth anymore

[Conman52]

Hi : Less than 48 hours ago my wife and I went to see the movie sound of freedom . Her idea not mine. Then I wake up this morning to a mormon stories video saying this movie could be fake !!" I don't know who or what to believe anymore . This takes me back to my faith crisis which seems to never end I found out almost everything I knew of 40 years in the church was not true !!! I found out the pandemic was not true. The war in ukraine who knows who is winning or right. Trump who says he is the truth but I doubt it. I don't know if anyone tells the truth. I used to be able to count on the news to present the facts and let the viewers decide who was telling the truth but even that is skewed. Both Democrats & Republicans are caught in lies so who knows. I'm tired of everyone telling lies I'm 63 and have no idea what is the truth anymore can anybody offer advice ? Thanks for reading.

[deacon blues]

I have the same feelings. I'm 68 and 13 years ago I found out that Church leaders were capable of deceiving themselves and others, but on reflection I realized that everyone, myself included deceives themselves and others. I believe there is a quality that is objective truth, but all humans have subjective viewpoints. I intend to seek what is truth, and I think truth is a big priority, but not everyone feels that way, and most people think they have a unique perspective on what is true. I also have discovered how people deceive themselves, and some people who may even pretend some things are true that aren't for various reasons. We all shade aspects of the truth for reasons- we exaggerate some truths that we think are important, and de-emphasize truths that we regard as less important.
Going through a divorce was an enlightening experience. I saw my ex-wife and I change our priorities. We still agreed on certain things but we changed our views of other things. I came to feel I could trust my ex-wife about some things, but not other things, and she probably felt the same way about me.
I don't know anything about the movie "Sounds of Freedom."
I am still a seeker, and the truth still sometimes surprises me, but it doesn't rock me like it used to.
Good luck on your life's path, and if you learn anything share it with those who can receive it.

[Angel]

Congratulations. Most people never make it to the highest levels:

https://www.jmu.edu/geology/_files/willperry21.pdf

[deacon blues]

Angel, can you simplify it for me? I'm 68 and slipping into senility?

[Angel]

Angel, can you simplify it for me? I'm 68 and slipping into senility?

"the "truth"

Pedagogical Approaches, teaching methods, light a fire or fill a bucket. One method, the "Constructivist Approach" students have to create their own understanding. Those who have spent the majority of their life passively receiving information hate constructivist assignments.

Consider a bunch of STEM students - they chose STEM because they don't like writing essays, they do not like subjective tasks, they like cold hard numbers, like things to be exact, like to calculate it - be told - correct! That is the truth! You have the right answer! Nothing to argue, security, "exact science". This is the lowest level - dualistic view of the world, in which all intellectual and moral questions have unique *correct*
answers, authorities know what those answers are, and the students’ task is to accept the authorities’ answers without question and to repeat those answers on tests.

so... what lab/assignment would you create to pry students away from a dualistic view? to pry them away from relying on you, the instructor? to force them to think for themselves?

Real science and engineering includes testing supposed knowledge, you have to challenging current authority to progress, realize the uncertainty and ambiguity in all of it (including your own ideas), but still be able to commit to some theory or model - build something - knowing whatever you make isn't perfect, isn't *right*, but still can work fairly well for something. No correct design for a car, no perfect house etc. but you learn to live with doing the best you can with the limited resources and understanding available.

I've had angry students in class. They say things like "Is this right?? Did I get the right answer??" and the reply is - that could work. What about them - their answer is different - are they right? or am I right? - haha, their solution could also work. Haha, that is the discussions that go round and round with dualists. They want something solid, something true, something correct - a 100% grade on their lab report. I've seen melt downs over open-ended assignments designed to level them up.

Kroll captures it best - "intellectual growth is the progression from ignorant certainty to intelligent confusion"
the more you know, the more you know you don't know and all that.
Vaclav Havel — 'Keep the company of those who seek the truth- run from those who have found it'

[dogbite]

Turns out the truth probably isn't an evolutionary advantage. Our perceptions and processing evolved to be pretty lossy. From the book Useful Delusions

Consider this simplest of examples—the organ you are using to read this book: In any given second, the human eye collects about a billion bits of information. This flood of data is compressed a thousand times, and only one million bits of information are sent to the brain via the optic nerve. The brain keeps just forty bits of this data, and discards the rest. As the cognitive psychologist and author Donald Hoffman explains, this is like taking an actual book, compressing the chapters into Cliffs Notes, then taking those notes and throwing away nearly everything until you are left with a blurb.

The amount of energy it would take to correct and process truth from our senses and in our brain is not sustainable. And it offers no advantage in passing our genes on. Evolution didn't select for it.

Collection transmission and cognitive shortcuts are what we have. Good enough to pass on our genes. But we must accept that we are not truth machines. We are not disposed to recognize truth when it happens right in front of us. Rather we construct a highly lossy model of reality and play around inside of a model inside of our own heads.

[2bizE]

I know my love for my wife and family is true.

[Angel]

I know my love for my wife and family is true.

Inner truth - our own personal truth, yes.
Nothing certain without, but we can know our own soul.

[Palerider]

I've told my kids (all married now) that the time is here when the most precious thing to find will be the truth.

It reminds me of an Old Testament scripture from Amos.

11. Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:

12. And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.

[sparky]

Then I wake up this morning to a mormon stories video saying this movie could be fake !!"

What video is this? I can't find anything about the movie on the MSP YouTube channel. I'm interested because my family has been making anxious/outraged posts about it after watching it, but I'm extremely skeptical of it given that it comes from Utah-based Angel Studios, Tim Ballard and his organization have been under scrutiny for making up stories and having counterproductive practices to fight child trafficking, and the whole thing just smacks a little too closely of QAnon.

[wtfluff]

Then I wake up this morning to a mormon stories video saying this movie could be fake !!"

What video is this? I can't find anything about the movie on the MSP YouTube channel. I'm interested because my family has been making anxious/outraged posts about it after watching it, but I'm extremely skeptical of it given that it comes from Utah-based Angel Studios, Tim Ballard and his organization have been under scrutiny for making up stories and having counterproductive practices to fight child trafficking, and the whole thing just smacks a little too closely of QAnon.

Looks like the video has been taken down.

[Angel]

I've told my kids (all married now) that the time is here when the most precious thing to find will be the truth.

It reminds me of an Old Testament scripture from Amos.

11. Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:

12. And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.

Best of times, worst of times, I mean all things considered - more people can now read and write, access to books. Imagine living before the printing press. Imagine living in another part of the world, in a different time of history.

I had a group come through - we do outreach programs, and it was a group of recent graduates who did not have plans for college, no direction etc. It came out in conversation they were intimidated by school/college and I had to remind them what age we are living in. It doesn't matter who their teacher is, or what the subject is - all they need to do to figure out anything they want is to type a few things into the phone in their hand. I showed them some programs that help with math - one in the room, their face changed, like a lightbulb went on - they said "yea - there's an app for that! - I had them all smiling by the end. The world at our fingertips. The world in our phone.

One really special student - paraplegic- - types very slowly with eyes. I first had him in an online class, no one in class knew. If you read his discussion forum posts, grading HW - for online class, he was just like the rest of us. We're able to communicate with one another like never before. I love it. It's an amazing time to be alive. It's not a famine, its a feast!

[Conman52]

The video was a john Dehlin you tube short . I'm not able to find it now either so perhaps he took it down but it was john and another guy trying to get facts about if what was portrayed in the movie was fact or fiction that didn't seem to find any facts to support the movie claims of 20 million people being enslaved in the sex trade they mentioned a number like 24000.

[Conman52]

I found it mormon stories episode 1354. It's older as is that movie although just released.

[sparky]

The video is back up, it seems like it was probably taken down by YouTube's algorithm because it discusses CSA. The video now has certain words muted no doubt to avoid this issue. Also I didn't realize this until the end, but it's a short excerpt from a long episode from two years ago, episode 1364

[Red Ryder]

I found out the pandemic was not true.

You lost me here??

In regards to the movie which I saw last week:

An important part of story telling is the ability to capture the attention of the audience so that the message of the story can be exchanged between the story teller and the audience. Transactional if we have to simplify.

Some stories are told for entertainment purposes.
Some stories are told to enrage and become a catalyst for change.

Regardless of the transactional nature, many stories are embellished in order to increase the transactional value of the story. It could be Uncle Ted’s over told but entertaining fishing story where he caught a 45 pound goldfish. We all know it’s embellished but we’re entertained every thanksgiving dinner when he tells it. No harm no foul, right?

In the case of Tim Ballard (who by the way is not related to Russell M.) I choose to understand that his story may be embellished for the sake of storytelling and to enrage humans enough to do something to prevent child kidnapping and abuse.

For me, I can see that the facts matter and may be embellished. But I’m ok with looking past it if it compels and educates people to get off their couch and do something to make the world a better place.

Where I have a problem is when the story teller becomes the main character and their intentions are fame and fortune. (See J. Smith). This may or may not be the case with Mr. Ballard. I haven’t followed or researched enough to make my own decision. I just know that Im willing to vote with my wallet and my feet and can choose for myself to support his cause or not.

I thought the movie was done well. At times I found myself wondering how much was real and how much was added for story telling purposes. I couldn’t understand why people clapped at the end?

All I know is that watching the movie made me realize the world has bigger problems that need to be solved and we as humans are completely distracted by meaningless things like tik tok, social media, Netflix, and never ending discussions of trivial subject.

Let’s hug our kids and strive to be better people and if possible try to actually do something to make the world a better place.

[Angel]

I haven't watched it yet. Hesitant, will it be triggering? I'll wait until it comes out. I've seen enough in real life. Lies - fake reports, they hurt the real reports. Some try to make $$from being a hero. The real heros don't write books or movies. If a victim writes it - that's different.

I don't appreciate media that portrays women as victims who need to be rescued by men. That's not real. In real life, men are the ones in jail- in real life, women rescue themselves.

I don't appreciate any movies with any kind of Christian undertone. In real life, the largest sex industry is funded and created by religion. Purity culture is what started it all.

Yea. I'm not going to watch it. Just another fake do-gooder.

‐‐----------------------------------
In science, learning previous beliefs were wrong is an exciting discovery, to be celebrated. It's how you learn, progress, to admit what is wrong. (Perhaps this why learning/intellectuals are frowned upon by religion)

No discussion on truth is complete without a good essay from a master on lies

ON THE DECAY OF THE ART OF LYING
by Mark Twain [Sameul Clemens]

https://gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2572/pg2572.html