Thom Harrison and "Visions of Glory"

[Jeffret]

I keep thinking that there must be some limit to the amount of creepiness and weirdness from Tim Ballard (the founder of OUR, Operation Underground Rescue, and subject of "The Sound of Freedom"), but I keep being surprised as more and more layers are peeled off.

Most recently I've been learning that there's a thread that ties together all of the weirdest, most out-there Mormons, particularly the notable Mormon criminals. These include, Tim Ballard, Julie Rowe, Chad Daybell, Lori Vallow, Jodi Hildebrandt, and Ruby Franke. A veritable Who's Who of fringe Mormonism, particularly ones that have been involved in high-profile criminal cases.

That thread is Thom Harrison and his book "Visions of Glory". It contains lots of wacky claims about portals, evil spirits controlling people, everyone being either good or bad, being able to determine exactly what someone is / does /thinks, and the need to the need to help those who are overcome by evil spirits pass on to the afterlife. (Think Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow on this.)

I've tried my hand at writing fantasy, where some people have special powers. It can be interesting to play around with ideas and stories that way. But, these people cosplay it to the point they believe it is all real and then act out on it, taking advantage of what they consider their special status.

The impact of this book on some people and the lives it has destroyed is truly harrowing.

This is a very long but fabulously detailed presentation of many aspects of this very area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMAR88PiaZc

[Jeffret]

The panel's discussion about the dangers of scrupulosity and the division into good and evil people and spirits reminded me of another pernicious Mormon book. Grant Von Harrison's "Drawing on the Powers of Heaven" was passed around BYU and the mission long ago, back in my day. It doesn't rise to the level of devotion and criminal conduct that has arisen from "Visions of Glory", but it's still a harmful book, inculcating problems in many people.

And we should also mention the awfulness of "It's a Miracle if you can get Forgiveness" -- er ... "The Miracle of Forgiveness".

But, "Visions of Glory" really pushes into further boundaries with all of its talk of portals and warring spirits and thinking objects and knowing the evilness of others. Though, in some ways it seems to be on the same level of some of Joseph Smith's stuff and Brigham's stuff. And the book of "Revelation" in the Bible. People yearn for all of those great mystical secrets to be true and real and for themselves to have a a special place in the great proceedings of the world and worlds far beyond.

[Jeffret]

Fight the New Drug is also connected into this. And LifeStar. And Jodi Hildebrandt was with LifeStar, which is related to FtND.

[blazerb]

This has left me speechless. I wonder if Thom Harrison has anything to say about these disciples. It seems irresponsible not to speak up if people are using your story, that you chose to share, to hurt people.

[Jeffret]

This has left me speechless. I wonder if Thom Harrison has anything to say about these disciples. It seems irresponsible not to speak up if people are using your story, that you chose to share, to hurt people.

I don't know that they're behaving in contrast to Thom's teachings or beliefs.

[moksha]

Seems like TBMs can be lured into cult behavior with the right instruction manual.

[blazerb]

This has left me speechless. I wonder if Thom Harrison has anything to say about these disciples. It seems irresponsible not to speak up if people are using your story, that you chose to share, to hurt people.

I don't know that they're behaving in contrast to Thom's teachings or beliefs.

You're right. I just don't see how he can't see the harm he has done. On the other hand, I am not a doomsday prepper. I'm guessing church PR doesn't want to draw any attention to the throughline, so they won't say anything.

[Hagoth]

Seems like TBMs can be lured into cult behavior with the right instruction manual.

There seem to be a lot of LDS people out there starving for revelation and someone with the kind of inside track they want their leaders to have. When somebody like Julie Rowe comes along, no matter how transparent their lunacy or motives, they are almost guaranteed a devout following.

What would be really interesting would be for someone to do a Kumare kind of ruse and present himself as The One Mighty and Strong, say all of the right things and see how many people he can gather in his net, and then help them understand the folly of that kind of behavior.

If you haven't watched Kumare, btw, I'm sure you will find it very interesting. It used to be free on Amazon. Right now it's $1.74.
https://www.amazon.com/Kumare-Vikram-Ga ... B00AIDXG1E It's probably out there for free streaming somewhere.

[Bonfire]

Seems like TBMs can be lured into cult behavior with the right instruction manual.

E-publish in online discussions where webpages are pressed on paper in Ogden while building a refuge, raising wifi radio pillars, welcoming college van camping drive in movies around an equipped LAN palace where runners bring member masks, meals, or messageboards.

[Hagoth]

I started listening to that Mormon Stories episode, Jeffret. Crazy! Thanks for recommending it. I have seen the words "Visions of Glory" thrown around, but I had no idea how heavily it overlaps with all of these lunatic fringe groups.

There really needs to be a Netflix documentary about this stuff. Maybe an entire series. It's so wacky and weirdly scary that people would eat it up, and the church would probably be forced to actually say something. More sunshine needs to be poured onto the way The Brethren quietly allow and even support this kind of insanity because it is woven deeply into the fabric of their own authority and world view.

[moksha]

The Brethren quietly allow and even support this kind of insanity because it is woven deeply into the fabric of their own authority and worldview.

The tacit support of the Church for this type of cultism is disturbing to people who do not routinely compartmentalize their thinking or possess the ability to disengage rational thought when it comes to religion.

[Bonfire]

Netflix documentary about this stuff. Maybe an entire series. It's so wacky and weirdly scary that people would eat it up, and the church would probably be forced to actually say something. More sunshine needs to be poured onto the way The Brethren quietly allow and even support this kind of insanity because it is woven deeply into the fabric of their own authority and world view.

Do you know about the Kingston massacre?

[Hagoth]

Do you know about the Kingston massacre?

No, please enlighten us.

[Hagoth]

I finished the first part of that podcast (4 plus hours!) and found it pretty riveting. I just started part 2.

One observation I would like to make, that was not commented on, is that many of Thom Harrison's visions seem to be deeply grounded in the teachings of Joseph Fielding Smith. Several of the excerpts they played were built upon JFS's theology and fleshed out by Harrison, often in very dark and disturbing ways that are presented as further light and knowledge. The genius, if you want to call it that, of Harris' work is that he takes familiar but not necessarily orthodox Mormon doctrines/beliefs and weaves exciting and scary elements into them in a way that seems to mutually validate the ideas, giving readers the feeling that they have been welcomed into a deeper understanding of the doctrine. They are FINALLY getting the meat that lies just beneath the milk. So he makes it feel familiar and then ads an apostolic stamp of approval via the ghost of Neal A. Maxwell. All of this is very appealing to an apocalyptic-minded membership who are constantly told that the end is near, who are terrified, and who are grasping for inside knowledge to help them be on top of Bunker Hill when the fertilizer hits the ventilator.

[Bonfire]

I finished the first part of that podcast (4 plus hours!) and found it pretty riveting. I just started part 2.

One observation I would like to make, that was not commented on, is that many of Thom Harrison's visions seem to be deeply grounded in the teachings of Joseph Fielding Smith. Several of the excerpts they played were built upon JFS's theology and fleshed out by Harrison, often in very dark and disturbing ways that are presented as further light and knowledge. The genius, if you want to call it that, of Harris' work is that he takes familiar but not necessarily orthodox Mormon doctrines/beliefs and weaves exciting and scary elements into them in a way that seems to mutually validate the ideas, giving readers the feeling that they have been welcomed into a deeper understanding of the doctrine. They are FINALLY getting the meat that lies just beneath the milk. So he makes it feel familiar and then ads an apostolic stamp of approval via the ghost of Neal A. Maxwell. All of this is very appealing to an apocalyptic-minded membership who are constantly told that the end is near, who are terrified, and who are grasping for inside knowledge to help them be on top of Bunker Hill when the fertilizer hits the ventilator.

Have you read any Answers to Gospel Questions? I do not have any data to listen to podcasts. I am not about to argue with the powers that be because I am not scared. Do you have a transcription?

[Jeffret]

One observation I would like to make, that was not commented on, is that many of Thom Harrison's visions seem to be deeply grounded in the teachings of Joseph Fielding Smith. Several of the excerpts they played were built upon JFS's theology and fleshed out by Harrison, often in very dark and disturbing ways that are presented as further light and knowledge. The genius, if you want to call it that, of Harris' work is that he takes familiar but not necessarily orthodox Mormon doctrines/beliefs and weaves exciting and scary elements into them in a way that seems to mutually validate the ideas, giving readers the feeling that they have been welcomed into a deeper understanding of the doctrine. They are FINALLY getting the meat that lies just beneath the milk. So he makes it feel familiar and then ads an apostolic stamp of approval via the ghost of Neal A. Maxwell. All of this is very appealing to an apocalyptic-minded membership who are constantly told that the end is near, who are terrified, and who are grasping for inside knowledge to help them be on top of Bunker Hill when the fertilizer hits the ventilator.

I'm not terribly familiar with JFS theology, but much of "Visions of Glory" is definitely founded in JS and BY theology. Especially the latter part of JS theology, including the King Follett Discourse.

And yes, that's clearly a huge part of the motivation for those who latch onto this stuff.

[Hagoth]

I finished the second episode and I continue to be dazed by how broad Thom Harrison's influence is across the entire spectrum of fringe Mormonism, including Rod Meldrum and the Heartland BoM people, and disturbed by how respected he and his followers are as therapists. One of the panelists mentioned, for instance, that Jodi Hidebrandt's biggest client is the LDS church. Also, that the church actively refers members to Thom and his followers for psychological counseling, despite the fact that they are using methods like spirit channeling to dictate treatment for their patients.

Also of interest, the LDS-supported porn "addiction" treatment businesses like Fight the New Drug are part of this network of Thom Harrison apocalypse brokers, who base their approach on the notion that people who look at porn are letting demons into their bodies through an invisible hole in the top of their head. You know, good, evidence-based neuroscience.

[Jeffret]

I finished the second episode and I continue to be dazed by how broad Thom Harrison's influence is across the entire spectrum of fringe Mormonism, including Rod Meldrum and the Heartland BoM people, and disturbed by how respected he and his followers are as therapists. One of the panelists mentioned, for instance, that Jodi Hidebrandt's biggest client is the LDS church. Also, that the church actively refers members to Thom and his followers for psychological counseling, despite the fact that they are using methods like spirit channeling to dictate treatment for their patients.

Also of interest, the LDS-supported porn "addiction" treatment businesses like Fight the New Drug are part of this network of Thom Harrison apocalypse brokers, who base their approach on the notion that people who look at porn are letting demons into their bodies through an invisible hole in the top of their head. You know, good, evidence-based neuroscience.

Unfortunately, it's not just fringe Mormonism, as the panelists repeatedly point out. Harrison is deeply connected with the organization, including being the person that approves a potential missionary's mental / emotional fitness for a mission. And all of their involvement in referred counseling through the many forms.

FtND has had a pseudo-official connection to Church for years now, being invited to hierarchy sponsored firesides and many other events, providing a tacit approval. Their concerns and approaches are completely out of alignment with any mainstream, science-based approach.

And, as you mention, Jodi Hildebrandt, along with Lifestar in general, have been deeply involved in the anti-porn / sex-shame treatments.

[Hagoth]

Therapist Scott Owen was recently arrested for sexually assaulting his patients. According to the SL Tribune, many of his patients were referred to him by the LDS church to get their "same-sex attraction" fixed. The referring wards also paid for Owen's services.

I'm wondering if there is a connection to Thom Harrison here. We have seen that Harrison has some sort of influence with the church in recommending therapists, and we have seen that his preferred therapists appear to be oriented around the Visions of Glory movement. Also, Owen seemed to be doing a similar thing to what happened in some of the church-recommended conversion therapy providers, where the counselors found all kinds of ways of getting their own suppressed gay rocks off in the guise of helping clients adjust to supposedly healthy male touch, with zero results in changing anyone's sexual orientation, but excellent results at inducing trauma.

[Jeffret]

I'm wondering if there is a connection to Thom Harrison here. We have seen that Harrison has some sort of influence with the church in recommending therapists, and we have seen that his preferred therapists appear to be oriented around the Visions of Glory movement. Also, Owen seemed to be doing a similar thing to what happened in some of the church-recommended conversion therapy providers, where the counselors found all kinds of ways of getting their own suppressed gay rocks off in the guise of helping clients adjust to supposedly healthy male touch, with zero results in changing anyone's sexual orientation, but excellent results at inducing trauma.

At this point I just kind of assume there are connections between all of these wacky sex-obsessed Mormons and organizations. I haven't seen much to disprove it.

Much of the gay conversion or gay denial practices and performers have some kinky gay sexual aspects and have done for a long time. This is most strongly true for gay male situations. Lesbians just ignored in a lot of this.