The 'Zina' Principle.

Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
Post Reply
User avatar
deacon blues
Posts: 1934
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:37 am

The 'Zina' Principle.

Post by deacon blues » Fri Nov 17, 2023 9:08 am

Zina Huntington Jacobs Smith Young was in the curious situation of being married to three men: Henry Jacobs, Joseph Smith, and Brigham Young. Odd aspects of the situation are that Joseph proposed while Zina was pregnant with Henry's child, and that apparently Brigham ordered Henry to quit living with Zina and find another wife. This is justified by Brigham Young in the following quote:
"Can a woman be freed from a man to whom she is sealed? Yes... And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife...If a woman can find a man holding the keys of the priesthood with higher power and authority than her husband, and he is disposed to take her, he can do so, otherwise she has got to remain where she is. To repeat, first, if a man forfeits his covenants with his wife, or wives, becoming unfaithful to his God, and his priesthood, that wife or wives are freed from him." (Brigham Young, "A Few Words of Doctrine," discourse, Oct. 8, 1861)
A TBM would probably assume that Henry Jacobs had forfeited his his covenants, but unbiased history seems to indicate that is not true. Jacobs keep both his faith, and his love for his wife:
"After Smith's death in 1844, Jacobs stood by while Young was sealed to Smith in the Nauvoo Temple.[19] Later in life, she called herself Joseph's "widow".[7]: 698  She was present at the meeting in which Brigham Young was chosen to lead the church; later, she and others recounted that Young spoke with the voice and appearance of Smith on that occasion.[20] Because she believed him to be God's chosen leader, she consented when Young, 20 years her senior, claimed he acted as Smith's proxy and proposed they be married for time (as many other members of the Quorum of the Twelve did with Smith's other plural wives). Brigham was united "for time" with Zina on February 2, 1846, and, at the same time, she was re-sealed to Smith for eternity.[10]: 103  Some scholars argue that at this point, Brigham Young and other church leaders considered her civil marriage to Jacobs canceled, superseded by the spiritual marriages, though no formal divorce was ever documented.[10] Over a decade later, Brigham would explain, "There was another way—in which a woman could leave a man—if the woman preferred—another man higher in authority and he is willing to take her. And her husband gives her up—there is no Bill of divorce required in the case it is right in the sight of God."[10] In May 1846, Young called Henry Jacobs to serve a mission to England. In August 1846, Zina's father died, and Zina took shelter in the household of Brigham Young.[15] : 84, 88, 89–91 [21] Biographer Todd Compton believed that this move supported the interpretation that Zina at this time "began to live openly as Brigham's wife".[15] : 90 [21] However it was not until six months after the return of Henry Jacobs that Zina conceived a child with Young, a daughter named Zina Presendia Young, born in 1850.[2] What is certain is that Henry Jacobs, upon his return, was brought before a church council for his role in performing marriages uniting multiple women to William W. Phelps in England without authorization. Phelps was excommunicated. Henry was "silenced" for performing the marriages. "It was decided in Council that if a man lost his wife He was at liberty to marry again whare He pleased and was Justifyed."[15] : 92 [21] The Council clearly considered at this time that Henry Jacobs's marriage to Zina was now over.

Jacobs struggled with this judgment, feeling that Zina should have remained his wife. In later years Jacob wrote to Zina: "the same affection is there .... But I feel alone .... I do not Blame Eny person .... [M]ay the Lord our Father bless Brother Brigham .... [A]ll is right according to the Law of the Celestial Kingdom of our God Joseph".[15] : 81–82  (Wikipedia, Zina D.H.Young.)
This is the best known example of what I call the "Zina Principle." But I'm guessing it is far from the only example. :shock:
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 5081
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: The 'Zina' Principle.

Post by moksha » Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:45 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2023 9:08 am
This is the best-known example of what I call the "Zina Principle." But I'm guessing it is far from the only example. :shock:
You could also argue that the Mormon leadership was driven by both the "Libido Principle" and the "Anything they could get away with Principle".
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

User avatar
Bonfire
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:05 pm

Re: The 'Zina' Principle.

Post by Bonfire » Tue Nov 21, 2023 6:06 pm

Does this conflict with what is written in the Bible?
Deuteronomy 24 wrote:King James Version
24 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the Lord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
5 When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.
To compare priesthood power is strange.
“Remember the worth of souls is great in the sight of God; “For, behold, the Lord your Redeemer suffered death in the flesh; wherefore he suffered the pain of all men, that all men might repent and come unto him” (D&C 18:10–11).

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 7113
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: The 'Zina' Principle.

Post by Hagoth » Wed Nov 22, 2023 6:41 am

Yes, the Old Testament also treats women like property, slut-shames and has an obsession with their "uncleanliness."
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
Bonfire
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:05 pm

Re: The 'Zina' Principle.

Post by Bonfire » Wed Nov 22, 2023 6:57 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2023 6:41 am
Yes, the Old Testament also treats women like property, slut-shames and has an obsession with their "uncleanliness."
Without pharmaceuticals that is what is necessary to survive otherwise you get possessed.

Brigham Young excusing wife snatching by being overcome with the spirit or the power of the priesthood is annoying. No wonder they ended up with so many kids.

When you survive in brothel times I'm sure the women that sleep around get treated like property because of the diseases or chromosomes they carry.

The saddest part is the letter from the husband that gets left out of the Mormon meth party.
“Remember the worth of souls is great in the sight of God; “For, behold, the Lord your Redeemer suffered death in the flesh; wherefore he suffered the pain of all men, that all men might repent and come unto him” (D&C 18:10–11).

User avatar
alas
Posts: 2373
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: The 'Zina' Principle.

Post by alas » Thu Nov 23, 2023 8:32 am

The Zina principle is a fine example of Joseph Smith playing Calvin ball.

If the rules don’t work for your benefit, change the rules. Legally you are allowed one wife. But change the rules and I can have more. Can’t have a woman is she is married to someone else. Change the rules. You must get your first wife’s consent, unless she won’t give it, then change the rules. So, Brigham Young must have been Hobbs to happily play by the Calvin rules.

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 5081
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: The 'Zina' Principle.

Post by moksha » Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:45 pm

Video put out by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to explain their position on women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 68 guests