Teaching the wrong stuff

[Dirty Bird]

Good lord, Dirty Bird. Half of what you say makes you sound completely full of shit, and most of the other half of what you say makes you sound completely uninformed and ignorant, but thankfully a little bit of what you say makes you sound like a decent human being with a modicum of intelligence.

The issues of guns, gun rights, gun ownership, mental health, mental health training, mental health services, armed protection, child protection, and how to prevent needless shootings and violence is complicated at best, particularly when battling confirmation bias, vehement opinions, lack of reliance on good data, and the ready availability of alcohol.

I've seen mental health services prevent deaths, violence, suicides. I've seen the unavailability of a gun lead to happy outcomes and I've seen unhappy outcomes directly caused because a gun was readily available. I haven't seen but have heard about unhappy outcomes prevented because of a gun. And there have been maybe two times in my life when I've wished I had a gun, but never a time when it turned out that I really needed a gun. I realize that maybe this is just good fortune, or maybe some decent psychological skills.

I think everyone agrees that school violence, especially school shootings are bad and should never occur again. It seems like we as a country should be able to figure out how to stop it, but we're probably going to have to do it with some compromise and giving up a little of what we want to get what's best for the most people. That's kind of how societies work and adapt if they are to survive. It also seems like training, education, accurate information, good data, and a willingness to change are crucial.

So, we have to figure out what's the right stuff or best stuff to teach. Us old farts have to be willing to make changes for the good of the society. The world is different than it was when we were kids. We can't go back. So now what do we do to make it better than it is right now?

You know, I was going to start by calling you a little bitch for not understanding the point I'm trying to make, but then I remembered that the vast majority of men who leave the church for some reason stop producing testosterone, like RFM and John Dehlin, and become total girly men. I'm assuming that's what happened to you, because your post is all over the place and it's very one sided and your sense of reality has most definitely been influenced by progressive cult ideology.

Guns and gun ownership isn't complicated as you say. For hundreds of years we lived with guns in homes and hardly ever heard about school shootings

You're one side view is heavy on progressive ideology. You say you have seen mental health services prevent deaths. Well, guess what, I've seen mental health services cause deaths by prescribing drugs that alter someone's brain to the point that my friend became delusional and hung himself 50' up a pine tree. Guess what, opposite of what you've seen, I've seen guns save lives. Weak minded men are susceptible to being influenced by men who are hell bent on disarming a population so they can exert their will upon them. Again, have you searched your wallet to see if you lost your man card?

Oh Jesus fxxxing christ! Did you actually say that we need to compromise and give up a little of what we want to get what's best for most people? No that's not how healthy societies work, my friend! What you're suggesting in giving in to the Marxist is exactly what they want. They want men to become weak little cowards that are afraid to protect the constitution. They want you disarmed because a disarmed society can't fight back. Once they have turned the majority of men in to weak minded dickless individuals there's nothing in the way to prevent them from putting in place their slave holder policies. Constantly and continually keeping our society in fear so the vast majority of society feels like the government is the only solution to the problems plaguing everyone. Sound familiar? That's exactly how most religions keep members coming back.

No, I'm not an old fart like you! You're willing to compromise with Marxist, I'm not. Somehow you have accepted that the changes that are happening to society are good for society and you couldn't be further from the truth. No one wants to go back, ding dong! What real men that still act like real men want is a country that isn't taken over by Marxist. Real men like me understand there can't be a first amendment without the second amendment. They go hand in hand. You lose one, you lose the other. I understand you won't comprehend what I'm trying to convey because like you said, you're willing to accept defeat. You're willing to give up freedom for perceived security. Guns equal freedom in this world. Get rid of guns and a society no different than China or North Korea is waiting around the corner.

[moksha]

You know, I was going to start by calling you a little bitch for not understanding the point I'm trying to make, but then I remembered that the vast majority of men who leave the church for some reason stop producing testosterone, like RFM and John Dehlin, and become total girly men. I'm assuming that's what happened to you, because your post is all over the place and it's very one sided and your sense of reality has most definitely been influenced by progressive cult ideology.

Dirty Bird, you sound like a nut case who has morphed into a board bully. Try to play nice on discussion boards, even if you feel yourself awash in too much testosterone. Go caress your guns till you have some sort of release.

[Cnsl1]

I accept victory.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

[Cnsl1]

DB, kidding aside, you've given us too much to consume in one post.

If and when you have time, I'd be interested in a more detailed argument of just one of those bits. Say gun ownership. Perhaps who should be allowed to own guns, what type of guns, any guns prohibited, etc.? Places or spaces guns should be and not be? Registration? And references.. any data or research studies to support your position, as well as any data that does NOT support your position and why that data isn't as compelling. I know that's a lot, so no prob if you ignore it.

I don't really give a shit about your rants on me because we don't really know each other and I don't take it too heart. But I am always interested in learning and exploring other opinions, even if they are expressed in vapid, doltish rants.

So the request was sincere.

[Cnsl1]

And prob should be separate thread, sorry

[Angel]

Getting here late, but if anyone wants a teachers $.02 about mass shootings...

Yes, I've had troubled people in my class. Have been through several situations...

Here's one - I'm just about to start class, and we hear commotion down hallway, a dozen cops are marching down the hall - I wonder whose class? Shut the door, protect kids in my class... turns out it wasn't "someone else" - it was someone in my class, sitting in front row. - Strange. First instinct is to think "not me, not my students". .. It was a quiet student, they had stuttering issue, sooper shy - poor insecure embarrassed kid- never would think that kid would be who a dozen cops were busting down doors for - never that kid.

I do not carry (I can, but don't). Some of my students are military - and the department next door - I don't need to carry because others do.

What I do
- protect younger dual credit students from older students, discretely assign teams and lab groups.
- minimize stress by accepting late work, offering extra credit, never accusing students of cheating without 10000% proof and still downplaying it all - accept the excuses, always make space - let them come back, give them chance to redeems themselves - they will never be angry at me, I will make room for them to come back.

So all the situations - and I have plenty of stories, I serve low-incone, diverse - immigrants - really really diverse, all languages going on, Jews and Palestinians sitting next to one another in class - military from multiple countries sitting next to one another - ptsd kids, convicts in class with 16yo dual credit. - diverse.

I love it. Would not want to be anywhere else. Call me a softie, a pushover, spineless for accepting late work and not pushing against excuses - but they learn, we get through class, everyone has room to make mistakes and fix mistakes - give everyone room and knock on wood, but no one holding a gun to my head yet... pulled out of class for threatening others, but not me - they don't threaten me because I give them room.

Haha, teaching the wrong stuff.
Teach hope. Teach redemption. Teach how to give space - don't back anyone into a corner, teach how to forgive. Teach the teachers this - not students - its the teachers who need to learn how to act.