Pray Pay & Obey And Humor

[Dirty Bird]

One of the main reasons I was never really a good decent Mormon is because I have a great sense of humor and I love dirty and raunchy jokes. Maybe Mormonism is different in other areas of the country, but where I'm from Mormons don't really have a great sense of humor. One dirty joke can clear the room, Mormons scatter like rats looking for a hole to hide in while my Christian friends stay to tell a dirty joke to counter my funny joke.

So if I'm correct and Mormonism kills humor for the most part, why? Here's my take. Mormonism can be distilled down to three words, pray pay and obey. To obey in Mormonism, means one is accepting the fact that after one makes a covenant with God to obey all the commandments, for the rest of your life anything you do or say must be as if Jesus himself would act in the exact same way. So if a Mormon believes Jesus wouldn't laugh at a joke, the Mormon is bound by the covenant to not laugh at the joke. They're a representative of christ after the baptismal covenant, so representing christ is the only option. So internally, when a Mormon hears a dirty joke and wants to laugh or possibly tell a dirty joke, they can't because it's not what Jesus would do if he was in that situation.

Now, what I'm discussing here isn't just found in Mormonism. I have Christian friends who wouldn't tell a dirty joke if you offered them a million dollars. I have a Muslim doctor living five houses down from me and he would also leave the room if dirty or raunchy jokes became the topic at a party. So for the people I have been talking about are all older, 50s mostly, but what I've noticed in some of my daughter's friends who are in their early twenties, also act in the same manner when jokes are being told about someone's ethnicity or gender or sexual orientation. It's as if they have been indoctrinated into a cult, and if they dare to laugh, they will turn into a stone figure and will stay that way for the rest of their life because they laughed at a politically incorrect joke. Basically, they're scared as shit that someone will call them racist or a homophobe if they're caught laughing at a joke.

It's my opinion that once a society or just a group of people that share a common cause loses the ability to laugh freely at jokes, even if the jokes are cruel or insensitive, that's a tell tell sign that the group of individuals have been indoctrinated to the point that they are almost 100% willing to accept any narrative their group leaders put infront of them as scripture. This is true in religion, politics and even small groups such as yoga groups or even MLMs.

So I guess my point is, pray pay and obey isn't just a Mormon thing, it extends to any group of people that are willing to give up a little mental freedom for the safety of a group structure that dictates what one must do if they want to be accepted by the people who share the same beliefs. I think what all of this actually means is for most humans, we are desperately seeking for acceptance and love from a collective of people so we feel like our life here on earth isn't meaningless.

So why did I start this thread? Because I read a lot of post bashing on Mormons and how they're part of a group of people that are close minded, behind the times, that Mormonism is racist and the patriarchy is cruel to women. Yeah, well guess what! That can and is found in any group of people that want to promote their shared beliefs. BLM isn't inclusive, the LGBT community isn't inclusive and anyone who goes against their shared beliefs are swiftly labeled as an enemy. Same could be said for the Proud Boys or far right extreme groups.

I say let Mormons be Mormons! They're no different than any other group of people that come together looking for love and acceptance. Yes, I understand there's rapist and child molesters in Mormonism, but there are also rapist and child molester in the LGBT community, in schools, in government, in sports. Certain men act bad no matter if they're in a religion or out of a religion. Some men if given the opportunity, will take advantage of women and or children no matter if they find a way to do it in a religious setting or some other opportunity such as a coach or doctor or a teacher or a police officer or a Congressman.

Mormons are good people. Mormons make great neighbors and great friends. In my experience Mormons are willing to help anyone in need before any other religion. On the other hand, in my experience, atheist or agnostics like me are some of the most anal, self absorbed assholes I have ever met. Yeah, they might have a great sense of humor, but most wouldn't get out of bed at 6am to help their neighbor move furniture, while my Mormon friends would not only get out of bed at 6am, they would bring donuts and hot chocolate and they would be smiling when I opened the front door.

[alas]

For many Mormons, it is the Puritan influence. Those stuffy Mayflower people (not Puritans, but the same attitude) and then the even stuffier Puritans who settled Massachusetts and most of New England. I mean, can you imagine anyone who is so stuffy they have to escape England, the stuffiest nation, under a humorless god. Now, it isn’t politically incorrect for *me* to make jokes about the stuffy stuffed shirts who came on the Mayflower, cause some of those over stuffed shirts were my ancestors. Yup my ancestors were some of the most humorless people ever to darken God’s earth. I am just laughing at myself, but if anyone else makes jokes about pilgrims and Puritans it might be religious discrimination. And that Puritan attitude was ALL OVER New England when Joseph Smith started Mormonism. So, of course, some of that over serious, humorless, dead, stuffy, boring, self righteous attitude from the overly Pure Puritans got into Mormonism.

I really love Max Lucado and how he injects healthy humor into religion. On his office wall, he has this great picture of Jesus laughing.

But humor has to be kind, and the kind of “politically incorrect” humor frequently is unkind, laughing at people instead of laughing with them. Anytime you start with blond jokes, sorry, but most of them are misogynistic, or polish jokes, or jokes about trans or gays then you are into being unkind. See, dirtybird, I don’t have a problem with humor as long as one religion, ethnic group, race, or gender (or trans, or any other gender) isn’t the butt of your jokes. But as soon as you start in with the kind of “humor” that is just cruelty making fun of someone else, I am going to start with the Republicans are all blond jokes. See, if I started with the kind of mean joke you call “politically incorrect” because really, they are racist or sexist about Trump supporters, you are going to get angry. So, don’t do to others what you don’t want done to you. Or I am going to start posting jokes about gun toting gorillas and see about YOUR humor.

[Mayan_Elephant]

See, if I started with the kind of mean joke you call “politically incorrect” because really, they are racist or sexist about Trump supporters, you are going to get angry. So, don’t do to others what you don’t want done to you. Or I am going to start posting jokes about gun toting gorillas and see about YOUR humor.

You may have unintentionally hit the target with this. Within this conflation, there is a valuable point. If you were to call someone a racist or sexist that could trigger someone. If you call someone racist or sexist but say, "hey man, it was a joke," this may slide. If you call someone racist or sexist incessantly, but then beg for understanding because the incessant accusations are just, ya know, jokes , well that ain't gonna fly.

I can't speak for DB but I can speak for my own response to this conflation. When you say, "you are going to get angry," I don't think that is a claim that you can support. You can say that you perceive a response or reaction to be seated in anger. Again, this is your experience and may not reflect another person's feelings or motivation. I think that when one's terms and conditions ("this is a joke") are rejected it can be as simple as that. The assumption that a rejection of someone's terms, particularly an insult, is based on anger, is farfetched.

I do think that there are jokes that are meant to hurt and generate reactions. I think there are insults that are meant to be insulting but may also get a laugh. They can be dismissed or rejected without anger.

Regarding the OP - it is a club and a community of like-minded members. The humor will land or be rejected consistently by like-minded people. So be it.

[Dirty Bird]

For many Mormons, it is the Puritan influence. Those stuffy Mayflower people (not Puritans, but the same attitude) and then the even stuffier Puritans who settled Massachusetts and most of New England. I mean, can you imagine anyone who is so stuffy they have to escape England, the stuffiest nation, under a humorless god. Now, it isn’t politically incorrect for *me* to make jokes about the stuffy stuffed shirts who came on the Mayflower, cause some of those over stuffed shirts were my ancestors. Yup my ancestors were some of the most humorless people ever to darken God’s earth. I am just laughing at myself, but if anyone else makes jokes about pilgrims and Puritans it might be religious discrimination. And that Puritan attitude was ALL OVER New England when Joseph Smith started Mormonism. So, of course, some of that over serious, humorless, dead, stuffy, boring, self righteous attitude from the overly Pure Puritans got into Mormonism.

I really love Max Lucado and how he injects healthy humor into religion. On his office wall, he has this great picture of Jesus laughing.

But humor has to be kind, and the kind of “politically incorrect” humor frequently is unkind, laughing at people instead of laughing with them. Anytime you start with blond jokes, sorry, but most of them are misogynistic, or polish jokes, or jokes about trans or gays then you are into being unkind. See, dirtybird, I don’t have a problem with humor as long as one religion, ethnic group, race, or gender (or trans, or any other gender) isn’t the butt of your jokes. But as soon as you start in with the kind of “humor” that is just cruelty making fun of someone else, I am going to start with the Republicans are all blond jokes. See, if I started with the kind of mean joke you call “politically incorrect” because really, they are racist or sexist about Trump supporters, you are going to get angry. So, don’t do to others what you don’t want done to you. Or I am going to start posting jokes about gun toting gorillas and see about YOUR humor.

I look forward to responding to your post, can't right now. But I see even you, the great Alas can't ignore me, even after saying you were going to ignore me for the rest of eternity! I don't know what is about me but women just can't bring themselves to ignore for even 24hrs.

Just kiddin just kiddin!

[Hagoth]

I suspect Joseph and Brigham would really appreciate a dirty joke now and then.

[Ghost]

I don't think my ingrained Mormon aversion to most vulgar language and humor is ever going to dissipate. Funny how that can outlive fundamental elements of my faith.

This thread reminds me of the times when I was younger and would hear a joke that was totally inappropriate but also very clever. One example of this was a joke a neighbor kid told me in elementary school about how Jesus can't eat M&Ms because of the holes in his hands. I found the joke very funny but also shocking and I felt like I was sinning even to have heard it, let alone laugh at it. I think this is the first time I've ever repeated it, in fact.

[Mayan_Elephant]

Let's push this.

Why do women love Jesus?

Because he is hung like this:

[Dirty Bird]

For many Mormons, it is the Puritan influence. Those stuffy Mayflower people (not Puritans, but the same attitude) and then the even stuffier Puritans who settled Massachusetts and most of New England. I mean, can you imagine anyone who is so stuffy they have to escape England, the stuffiest nation, under a humorless god. Now, it isn’t politically incorrect for *me* to make jokes about the stuffy stuffed shirts who came on the Mayflower, cause some of those over stuffed shirts were my ancestors. Yup my ancestors were some of the most humorless people ever to darken God’s earth. I am just laughing at myself, but if anyone else makes jokes about pilgrims and Puritans it might be religious discrimination. And that Puritan attitude was ALL OVER New England when Joseph Smith started Mormonism. So, of course, some of that over serious, humorless, dead, stuffy, boring, self righteous attitude from the overly Pure Puritans got into Mormonism.

I really love Max Lucado and how he injects healthy humor into religion. On his office wall, he has this great picture of Jesus laughing.

But humor has to be kind, and the kind of “politically incorrect” humor frequently is unkind, laughing at people instead of laughing with them. Anytime you start with blond jokes, sorry, but most of them are misogynistic, or polish jokes, or jokes about trans or gays then you are into being unkind. See, dirtybird, I don’t have a problem with humor as long as one religion, ethnic group, race, or gender (or trans, or any other gender) isn’t the butt of your jokes. But as soon as you start in with the kind of “humor” that is just cruelty making fun of someone else, I am going to start with the Republicans are all blond jokes. See, if I started with the kind of mean joke you call “politically incorrect” because really, they are racist or sexist about Trump supporters, you are going to get angry. So, don’t do to others what you don’t want done to you. Or I am going to start posting jokes about gun toting gorillas and see about YOUR humor.

The way you define how humor needs to be is exactly how someone with a victim mentality describes how humor should be dished out. You say humor HAS to be kind. What?? You actually think humor has to be kind? No. No one goes to a comedy show to see kind humor accept for Mormons! You say no blond jokes, well, you need to live a little, because there's plenty of blondes that go to comedy shows and sit in the front row so they can hopefully get roasted by the comedian on stage. Plenty of white people go to black comedy shows and pray that the black comedian on stage starts roasting them for being white in a almost all black comedy club. You see, someone with a victim mentality sees humor as "cruel" when it specifically picks on one race, ethnic group, religion or gender, while someone like me with a victor mentality sees that kind of humor as character building, as not taking one's self to seriously, as understanding that sometimes it's good to joke on how people are different.