Doubt

Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
Post Reply
Zeezrom
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu May 27, 2021 3:20 pm

Doubt

Post by Zeezrom » Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:15 am

"There are large trees called Indian laurel... Recently many of these trees were attacked by a disease... When this fungus attacks, the effects are not seen for some years. However, the fungus gradually rots the roots of those beautiful trees, and they begin to die... and the trees must be cut down.
Like the fungus that enters these trees, doubts can invade our thoughts.
If we let them grow, over time they can affect our roots and rot our foundation of faith until we too may be cut down." LDS Seventy, Elder Hugo Montoya, Ensign, June 2017


I read this on another forum and was reminded of an old movie I used to watch growing up. The 1967 movie version of “Camelot” based on the stage musical. There’s a scene where King Arthur discovers the idea of the round table after meeting Lancelot. He exclaims that he’s somehow done the right thing and stumbled on his future as Merlin prophesied. Lancelot at this point is highly pious and arrogant in his religious beliefs. He asks Arthur incredulously “Did you ever doubt it???” to which the wise King Arthur answers “Oh yes. Only fools never doubt


Yes Mormonism is full of proud fools.

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 7143
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Doubt

Post by Hagoth » Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:21 am

Zeezrom wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:15 am
Like the fungus that enters these trees, carefully worded denials can invade our thoughts.
If we let them grow, over time they can affect our roots and rot our foundation of faith until we too may be cut down." LDS Seventy, Elder Inigo Montoya, Ensign, June 2017
I made a slight change.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
wtfluff
Posts: 3653
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: Doubt

Post by wtfluff » Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:16 pm

Zeezrom wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:15 am
...King Arthur answers “Oh yes. Only fools never doubt
I need to add this to the quotable quotes part of my brain.

(So I can promptly forget it...)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

IDKSAF -RubinHighlander

You can surrender without a prayer...

User avatar
Ghost
Posts: 423
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:40 pm

Re: Doubt

Post by Ghost » Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:42 pm

Maybe it's because I've gone through a faith crisis, but I've become a lot more conscious of how much unwarranted certainty people express in general.

Something comes up in the news and instantly everyone knows enough to make a moral judgment and toss opinions around. (Not everyone and not always instantly, of course, but you get the idea.)

I find it hard to be certain about most anything anymore, though some of that is a personality thing for me that predates reconsidering my faith. I've always been very hesitant to express something that might later turn out to be wrong. (And it's kind of funny that I didn't worry about that too much in the realm of basic Mormon doctrine, but I think I was incapable of seriously entertaining the possibility that it was all made up.)

User avatar
Palerider
Posts: 2262
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:44 am

Re: Doubt

Post by Palerider » Fri Mar 29, 2024 9:31 am

Being a horseman, it's critical to understand horse psychology. It keeps me and the horse as safe as possible in a relatively unsafe activity.

After millions of years of evolution horses know to approach a watering hole with extreme caution. Predators hang out there looking for their next meal. Any nearby, sudden movement or sound will elicit a nearly explosive maneuver to get out of range first and then at a safe distance the horse looks back to see what made the sound or movement. Move away first, ask questions later. Horses are loaded with doubt. That's what has saved their species for hundreds of thousands of years.

I see doubt as a healthy reaction that promotes self-preservation. I think the Savior understood Thomas' doubt because it was an honest doubt.

Self-righteous, elitist, arrogant, territorialist certainty that actually fears truth.......that's the fungus that kills honest spirituality. Not honest doubt.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 953
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:12 pm

Re: Doubt

Post by nibbler » Sat Mar 30, 2024 8:03 am

Zeezrom wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:15 am
"There are large trees called Indian laurel... Recently many of these trees were attacked by a disease... When this fungus attacks, the effects are not seen for some years. However, the fungus gradually rots the roots of those beautiful trees, and they begin to die... and the trees must be cut down.
Like the fungus that enters these trees, doubts can invade our thoughts.
If we let them grow, over time they can affect our roots and rot our foundation of faith until we too may be cut down." LDS Seventy, Elder Hugo Montoya, Ensign, June 2017
There are large trees called my self esteem and my sense of self worth. Recently these trees were attacked by a fungus. When the fungus attacks, the effects are not seen for some years. However, the fungus gradually rots the roots of those beautiful trees, and they begin to die. Like the fungus that enters the trees, church doctrines can invade our thoughts and rot our sense of self worth.
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin

User avatar
alas
Posts: 2381
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:10 pm

Re: Doubt

Post by alas » Sat Mar 30, 2024 5:23 pm

nibbler wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2024 8:03 am
Zeezrom wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:15 am
"There are large trees called Indian laurel... Recently many of these trees were attacked by a disease... When this fungus attacks, the effects are not seen for some years. However, the fungus gradually rots the roots of those beautiful trees, and they begin to die... and the trees must be cut down.
Like the fungus that enters these trees, doubts can invade our thoughts.
If we let them grow, over time they can affect our roots and rot our foundation of faith until we too may be cut down." LDS Seventy, Elder Hugo Montoya, Ensign, June 2017
There are large trees called my self esteem and my sense of self worth. Recently these trees were attacked by a fungus. When the fungus attacks, the effects are not seen for some years. However, the fungus gradually rots the roots of those beautiful trees, and they begin to die. Like the fungus that enters the trees, church doctrines can invade our thoughts and rot our sense of self worth.
Very good analogy. And specifically church doctrines of ways of teaching those doctrines that infect us with shame.

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 7143
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Doubt

Post by Hagoth » Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:31 am

Palerider wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2024 9:31 am
Self-righteous, elitist, arrogant, territorialist certainty that actually fears truth.......that's the fungus that kills honest spirituality. Not honest doubt.
I love it. I always say, certainty is what makes people put on a dynamite vest and walk into a crowded bus station.
nibbler wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2024 8:03 am
Like the fungus that enters the trees, church doctrines can invade our thoughts and rot our sense of self worth.
Love that one too. If anything in human experience resembles a brain-eating fungus, it's the message that you must stop your thoughts before they lead you to authentic realizations.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
Angel
Posts: 789
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 8:26 am

Re: Doubt

Post by Angel » Mon Apr 01, 2024 1:35 pm

It wasn't a gradual fungus for me. It was pretty much just that one phone call informing us about his arrest.... followed by a few more meetings where it was crystal clear the good-old-boys club protects priests - not kids. They would not testify in court against him. They already knew, had known for years. ...

Not a fungus, a sudden earthquake - solid ground was suddenly thin air. I had to change from being a tree, to being a bird - find wings, and survive with no ground, nothing solid, to hold myself - and kids up - in thin air.

Nothing certain but what you have within - you can be certain of yourself, have confidence in yourself. Self-reliance isn't a prideful thing, its a survival thing. Better to find it - find your own wings - before being forced to find them.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests