Quid Pro Quo?

Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
Post Reply
User avatar
A New Name
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:36 pm

Quid Pro Quo?

Post by A New Name » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:31 pm

With all the attention that the $120k/year salaries got from the MormonLeaks, lots of other stuff got overlooked. One seemly innocuous entry on the minutes of the Missionary Executive Council Nov 29, 2000 jumped out at me.
MEC00-712 New Move-Ins. Elder Tingey shared as idea, mentioned by a brother who contributed $50,000 to the General Missionary Fund, about having missionaries help people move into new homes. Elder Tingey will recommend as in-house task committee that might look at possible initiatives with new move-ins
So why did Elder Tingey feel the need to mention that this idea came from somebody that gave $50,000 to the missionary fund? Was it a quid pro quo? Was this guy hitting up Elder Tingey with his idea of a “Missionary Moving Company”, and finally Tingey said “if you give $50,000 I’ll bring it up in my next missionary meeting? What was in it for the giver of this money that was worth $50k? Or did Tingey bring it up to show that this idea was not some wild idea from any old church flunky that only gives $100 each year to the missionary fund, but this idea was from a guy who gave a lot of money, so we should take it seriously? It just seems so out of place in a church setting, but probably sounds normal in a business or political setting.

User avatar
document
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:17 am

Re: Quid Pro Quo?

Post by document » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:19 am

This isn't that unusual in non-profits and churches. We had someone just recently drop a $31,000 donation on one place where I'm on the board and we bent over backwards to implement some ideas that he had. Similar things have happened when someone paid for half of construction costs for a church project, they got a little more say than the average person, although I haven't seen them do much outside of request a plaque.

What _is_ different here, is that in the case of the non-profits that I'm associated with and the church I'm associated with is that all donors and volunteers _do_ have a say, even if sometimes not as powerful as a large donor. I donate $10 a year to the library, and I work my butt off at the same time hauling books from bookstores to sell in our storefront. Our meetings are open to the public and we hear out people when they show up to our meetings (which is rare, but they absolutely can and sometimes do).

When we have councils that work behind closed doors and are not open to input from all donors or the public and the only way to open the door is with a large donation, then it screams of corruption. Personally, I don't think that corruption is going on, but it certainly gives the scent of controversy.

User avatar
Corsair
Posts: 3080
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:58 am
Location: Phoenix

Re: Quid Pro Quo?

Post by Corsair » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:31 am

The $50,000 donation indicates the entirely human basis for the LDS organization. Yes, this can lead to corruption at some point. Big donors are the lifeblood of non-profit organizations. But the LDS church is neither non-profit, nor non-prophet. I was hoping to see some revelation show up as an integral part of corporate operation. Instead, it runs like every other human institution where negotiation at all levels can be facilitated with money. I have worked with 501c3 groups and this is simply part of how they operate. Non-profit groups struggle to stay true to their values, especially when faced with significant donations. I don't see this donation as a clear indicator of corruption; It's simply how large groups of humans have operated through all of history.

An apologetic view of this donation is that God works through people and donation to the missionary fund was inspiration through this wealthy brother. Apparently, full revelation from God is very subtle in God's true church at the level of corporate governance. It's indistinguishable from normal humans struggling to figure out good solutions to their organizational problems.

User avatar
Flaming Meaux
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:25 pm
Location: Detroit Metro

Re: Quid Pro Quo?

Post by Flaming Meaux » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:20 am

Throughout the church's history, the prompting to ask a question that resulted in a revelation has come from a variety of sources, even mundane ones. If Emma wasn't fed up with cleaning up all of the tobacco spit, so the legend goes, you might not have the Word of Wisdom.

So who's to say that a $50,000 prompt that results in a revelation is necessarily a bad thing?

[/sarcasm]
"The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." -- Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

well wandered
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:44 am

Re: Quid Pro Quo?

Post by well wandered » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:53 pm

Off-topic, but dIdn't there used to be a rule against missionaries helping move? Wasn't it in the Missionary Handbook, or at least maybe it was a long time ago.

That's really a great question- how Elder Tingey is even be able to connect the donation to the suggestion, unless it is quid pro quo. The person who made the donation also probably volunteered that information to Elder Tingey, in which case there's really no right way or reason to do that unless there's an expectation.

It's possible the donor's leaders in Elder Tingey's area could have passed the good news on to him, but he's probably not going to later connect that member's name and his suggestion in person, unless he has a fantastic memory.

The first though that comes to mind reading that is it's a high profile Mormon like a Marriott. But rather than drop the name with the suggestion, this could be a good way of stressing that the suggestion came from a highly valued member.

Whatever his actual intent, it's puzzling why lobbying UP the chain of command like this would even exist in the Church.

User avatar
Corsair
Posts: 3080
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:58 am
Location: Phoenix

Re: Quid Pro Quo?

Post by Corsair » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:05 am

well wandered wrote:Off-topic, but dIdn't there used to be a rule against missionaries helping move? Wasn't it in the Missionary Handbook, or at least maybe it was a long time ago.
Many missions had curiously strict rules on the amount of service that a missionary was allowed to perform per week. Many mission presidents saw basic Christian service being a drag on overt LDS conversion attempts. I suspect that there are missions that have not yet gotten this memo.

User avatar
Emower
Posts: 1061
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:35 pm
Location: Carson City

Re: Quid Pro Quo?

Post by Emower » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:05 pm

I don't think there is high level or high profile corruption going on either. Impropriety maybe, cringeworthy, yeah, and absolute non-revelatory processes most definitely. That is what we can expect from a closer look into how the church works. We are taught that Jesus leads this church. That is simply not true and probably the main reason for non-transparency. This church is absolutely mundane and worldly in its operation but that is a fact that would be most damaging to many people. Realizing that the prophet really doesn't sit in council with the savior and receive instruction was what started me down my road of doubt.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 43 guests