Who is Grant Palmer talking about?

[AllieOop]

I had lunch with Grant last year, not to get any specific questions answered, as I was already out, but just to chew the fat of a Sizzler steak and chat; a chat and chew, if you will. My friend who introduced us, had lunch with him several times in the past to ask him lots of questions when he went through his faith crises (about five years ago). During our lunch we pressed him just a little bit about the GA, but Grant didn't budge and his story was consistent with past meetings, according to my friend. Grant still professes a relationship with Christ, stronger than it was when he was TBM. My opinion is he's an upstanding guy and his integrity would not reveal the GA's identity. So I'm with Corsair on this one, it wouldn't matter anyway for NOMs or most TBMs, it would have huge impact on the GA's life and family.

I'm guessing there might be 5-10% of the GAs that have serious doubts or are non-believers, but they just roll with it for a host of obvious family, life style and social reasons.

Upvote for this

Like I posted above, I've read a lot about Grant Palmer's experience, listened to him and followed his journey. I believe he will never tell who this 70 is because he gave his word that he wouldn't reveal that. I find him to be a man of great integrity.

He tried to remain active even after he wrote his first book. He wanted his voice to be heard about his desire to make the church more Christ centered. That's why he wrote his second book which I own and it is excellent:
The Incomparable Jesus

He's been treated horribly by church leaders and by the apologists (who really despise him because of how many he reached with his first book) and they have been vicious.

[2bizE]

AlliOop's story brings tears to my eyes. This is the type of treatment that leads to people questioning their faith. They get stuck in doing something they really don't want to do, and their life is altered. This leader is prime for becoming a NOM like us. Perhaps we could send him a newsletter or something.
As far as GP story, I happen to believe him, with the caveat that not all that information he has given is completely accurate. If he is to keep this person confidential, then what he has told us about him wouldn't take much to figure it it. I think he has purposefully misled us a bit. Perhaps this person was a secretary to the GAs, someone who worked closely with them. Maybe emeritus like the past historian Marlin Jensen. I wonder if it is a BYU professor who worked with GP, or the son of a GA. The stories I've read about working for the GAs at the COB is like seeing sausage made. Which reminds me of when I first saw sausage made...packing the intestines with sausage....

[RubinHighlander]

Just finished watching the YT video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwFbNAXx-Ps

I really enjoyed Tyler Glenn's songs! 1:56 and 2:27

Should probably get those added to the NOM Playlist.

[1smartdodog]

I would find it more amazing that the leaders actually believed it completely. I think Palmers story of how they obfuscated and deny is very plausible. It is just that when confronted with reality humans tend to have blind spots and their minds try to ignore reality. I think it is such with the apostles. They are smart men but they obviously see the flaws, but deal with it like most people and ignore the facts.

My opinion is they are in a world they have created, where they neither believe it completely but forge ahead because it is the right thing to do in their minds. I did that for years in the church. I never believed it was all completely true but I made it work because duty made me do it.

To say they believe completely would be a bigger stretch than to say they seriously doubt.

[alas]

I listened to that yesterday. It sort of goes against the idea of research and scholarship. It is sensational enough to make people interested, but lacks enough detail to actually say anything. You could call it clickbait. This is a disservice to the rest of his work. I do agree if you are going to say it, it needs to be detailed enough to be credible. As is, this is coming across like it is made up. It actually sounds familiar to some aspects of JSj's stories.

If you can't provide enough detail, then you don't include it. That is one of the principles of academic research.

My opinion on this is that it is not like his research which he did provide detail for, so it doesn't fall under the principles of academic research. The fact that it is sensational may have kind of shocked Palmer himself and so it sort of gets blurted out the same way juicy gossip frequently gets blurted out, kind of it gets mentioned because it is right at the top of his mind. The person can't stop thinking about it, so something gets said, and then you can't take it back and you leave everyone curious and hungry for the rest of the gossip. I figure, that it falls under the catagory of gossip so it is none of my flippin business.

[The Beast]

I'm probably being too skeptical about the whole thing. Sadly it's a bad side effect of my faith transition and my professional career upbringing.

No, I think being skeptical is good. I just feel that what he reported being told by the 70 is completely feasible and I actually think it would be odd if there weren't some who knew the truth and weren't true 100% believers. I have followed Grant Palmer's story and listened to him speak and read his writings (I've read his other book on Christ and it is excellent). I find him to be a man of integrity who gave much of his life serving the church (34 years in the CES). So, I find it hard to believe he'd lie about this. However, I do wish he would have kept it to himself or been able to give more confirming information.

I have a personal friend who was called to be a member of the First Quorum of Seventy and his family has struggled with how he's treated (they are NOT royalty like the apostles). His son has been openly critical and so has his daughter. You probably wouldn't recognize his name (but you might and I won't post it or where he is serving), but he has spoken in general conference.

He was an extremely successful attorney and well known in the area where I used to live. He' had been my Bishop, then the Stake President and other area and district "high" callings. Of course, at the time he was called, he was asked to give up his practice (for the years he was called to serve...until he turned 70 as seventies are asked to do).

Here is what took place when he was called:

- He was called by President Eyring (via Skype). He received a call from Eyring's secretary that morning (at his law office) asking him to be home with his wife that afternoon at a specific time and to have their Skype turned on to receive a call from Pres. Eyring. That's all the notice he had.

- He had to accept or decline on the spot and was given no time to think about it or discuss it with his wife (after the call as she was on the call too) or with his family (they still had one daughter at home who had been accepted to BYU...and they have other kids in the area and some grandkids).

- He was assigned to serve over the church in XXXXXXXX and had to commit to living there for 3-5 years. The church will allow him to come back to the states twice a year (to Salt Lake for April conference and October conference, but not back to his home town). They will only pay his way back to Salt Lake those 2 times, but will not pay for his wife's airline tickets, etc., so they'll have to pay her expenses if she comes with him. He will be traveling to different stakes and wards in the country almost weekly and the church will pay for his travel expenses but if he wants to take his wife with him, he will have to pay for that on his own. She will be allowed to come home once a year if she wants to see her kids and grandkids but will have to pay for this herself. (This is how it is for them, I cannot vouch that this is the case with every first 70).

- They had a fireside in our stake where he and his wife spoke before they left and it was opened up to a Q & A time afterwards. Someone asked his wife what her duties would be and how she planned on spending her time. She answered, "Well I'm stocking up on jigsaw puzzles because it looks like I'll be spending a lot of time alone and especially my weekends alone."

- This man is extremely close to his kids and grandkids. Before he was called, he had just expressed how he thought he was nearing his end of service in time consuming callings and how much he was looking forward to being able to stay home on the weekends and finally spend some time with his wife, kids and grandkids.

- Their entire family initially tried to be very supportive and of course many were thrilled when he was called. But his wife told me that they all struggled with the details. They all just keep saying that one word keeps coming to mind, "SACRIFICE" and they had no idea this was what it was like for a 70. They left for their assignment with their youngest daughter, She had an awful time about them leaving and gave up going to BYU so she could be with them. They are still serving there and she is still with them.

So, learning this about a member of the First Quorum of Seventy, really changed my view of the calling and how they are asked to serve. I can totally see one of them being disillusioned (especially if they learned some of the truths about difficult issues). Of course, I have no idea how others who are called serve (or the assignments they are given are varied, I'm sure). However, I can also see them receiving some type of "bonus" or lump sum of money to pay all their current debts or obligations at the time they are called. This man could have continued practicing law for another 15-20 years and he gave that up. I know they get a stipend but it's not even close to the income he was earning from his law practice.

This is largely how the church treats all its members--you are a piece of meat, a drone worker and nothing more.

[Crathes]

If you listened carefully during Grant's last interview with John Dehlin, Grant noted that there was a 4th person in the discussions, that that person was at the interview, but needed to remain unnamed as it would be too simple to figure out the name of the GA.

Please note a few things:
1. What the GA said was his opinion. Conjecture. Based on rumors he had heard over the years. Obviously the GA did not see cancelled checks or other specific proof of the things he said to Grant.
2. The GA is very private and wishes to remain so.
3. He has no bone to pick with the church, just that he does not believe any longer.

[felixfabulous]

I have spent way too much time thinking and researching this. From what Grant Palmer said, this man is an emeritus GA who was called when Kimball was Pres. of the Church. Look through the list of emeritus GAs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_g ... day_Saints. There are several that fit Palmer's specifications: temple president, mission president, emeritus, serving under Kimball. I've read other discussion boards where John Dehlin mentions per Grant Palmer that it was not Hamula but that his GA had been in touch with Hamula after he was excommunicated. It seems like they would have to be acquainted to have that happen.

The other part of me thinks that Grant Palmer put this out there and saw that there was a ton of interest and enjoyed teasing people with this juicy bit of gossip. I have never met him and don't know much about him (I know he recently passed away), but people seem to think he was a man of integrity and would not invent something like this.

[redjay]

If you listened carefully during Grant's last interview with John Dehlin, Grant noted that there was a 4th person in the discussions, that that person was at the interview, but needed to remain unnamed as it would be too simple to figure out the name of the GA.

Please note a few things:
1. What the GA said was his opinion. Conjecture. Based on rumors he had heard over the years. Obviously the GA did not see cancelled checks or other specific proof of the things he said to Grant.
2. The GA is very private and wishes to remain so.
3. He has no bone to pick with the church, just that he does not believe any longer.

nice user name - anything to do with a bonny castle?