Keeping up with Trump

Chat about a topic supported by books, TED Talks, podcasts, personal experience, philosophies of mankind mingled with humor (shout out to IOT), and maybe we’ll even do a google hangout or conference call once a month.
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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:53 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:53 am
Trump's team has found evidence that 2.7million votes were switched from Trump to Biden in the machines. Plus, about a million votes were added for Biden that seem fraudulent. PA (my state) changed 3 laws that gave Dems about 750,000 more votes.
My take is that these claims are all bogus or else direct evidence would have been presented in court, regardless of Rudy having brown shoe polish dripping down his face at that moment.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:54 am

moksha wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:53 am
SaidNobody wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:53 am
Trump's team has found evidence that 2.7million votes were switched from Trump to Biden in the machines. Plus, about a million votes were added for Biden that seem fraudulent. PA (my state) changed 3 laws that gave Dems about 750,000 more votes.
My take is that these claims are all bogus or else direct evidence would have been presented in court, regardless of Rudy having brown shoe polish dripping down his face at that moment.
Do you see what you did there? You implied that our evidence must be invalid because Rudy had brown shoe polish dripping from his face at the moment. This is the sort of slight of hand, or twist of words, that often gets pulled into these discussions. I just suggested that almost 3 million votes were switched. The company that provides the machines known as Dominion has basically fled the country. Of course I'm not exactly sure where they went but they've taken down some of their social media pages, and emptied their office. These are not guys who wanted to be questioned.

I didn't believe that Russia helped Trump. But I jumped in to investigate it. The investigation left me a little bit bitter because I saw what was being done. But you don't really seem interested that a system of people and machine was trying to steal our election.

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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:50 am

I just suggested that almost 3 million votes were switched. The company that provides the machines known as Dominion has basically fled the country. Of course I'm not exactly sure where they went but they've taken down some of their social media pages, and emptied their office
.
Trumpian disinformation. Where is the proof?
I didn't believe that Russia helped Trump.
The Senate Report says otherwise.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Cnsl1
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Cnsl1 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:07 am

Yeah, I'm also interested in your data. You make some rather bold and what seem to be outlandish claims of fraud. So far, what seems to be happening is that the pool of fraud-claim supporters and attorneys for Trump seem to be shrinking rapidly as the tall tales are debunked, but I grant you that Rudy is still on the soap box shaking his fist. Why? Where is there anything more than some claims? Where's the data, the evidence? The sources? Show me the data.

As the stories start sounding more and more like gossamer, one wonders what's the more likely truth? That a serious large scale conspiracy is underfoot, or that a narcissist who cannot accept losing is throwing a tantrum, or that a brilliant brand strategist and his buddy are laying out some cards to cast some doubts to help their re-election bid in four years. Occam's Razor would predict one of the latter two.

In the end, maybe the truth does not matter; it's more about throwing out some stink to cause some doubts, to give the followers something to rally about, to encourage the polemic and categorical thinking, so that no real critical thinking is necessary.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:43 pm

moksha wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:50 am
I just suggested that almost 3 million votes were switched. The company that provides the machines known as Dominion has basically fled the country. Of course I'm not exactly sure where they went but they've taken down some of their social media pages, and emptied their office
.
Trumpian disinformation. Where is the proof?
I didn't believe that Russia helped Trump.
The Senate Report says otherwise.
The actual proof or evidence is being withheld until it reaches the proper Court. Pennsylvania just excused the case without hearing any of the evidence that they had. They don't want the evidence to be exposed.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=F5vndAmMqAM

The case will now go to the third circuit appellate court. They wanted to get to the supreme Court as fast as possible. They believe that at that point their evidence can be reviewed without bias.

Of course, I am hopeful that I don't get egg on my face. It's such a pain to clean up.

shrugged
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by shrugged » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:26 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
moksha wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:50 am
I just suggested that almost 3 million votes were switched. The company that provides the machines known as Dominion has basically fled the country. Of course I'm not exactly sure where they went but they've taken down some of their social media pages, and emptied their office
.
Trumpian disinformation. Where is the proof?
I didn't believe that Russia helped Trump.
The Senate Report says otherwise.
The actual proof or evidence is being withheld until it reaches the proper Court. Pennsylvania just excused the case without hearing any of the evidence that they had. They don't want the evidence to be exposed.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=F5vndAmMqAM

The case will now go to the third circuit appellate court. They wanted to get to the supreme Court as fast as possible. They believe that at that point their evidence can be reviewed without bias.

Of course, I am hopeful that I don't get egg on my face. It's such a pain to clean up.
The PA judge who threw out the case is a member of the Federalist Society.


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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:36 am

The Republican Senate had this to say: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJMSLq0 ... UyehJj%3A6
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

shrugged
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Keeping up with Trump

Post by shrugged » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:07 am

If the Dems rigged Dominion voting machines to steal the election, why didn’t they

- Win Florida where Dominion machines are very widely used?
- Win countrol of the Senate so they could actually get their agenda through Congress?
- Save down ballot House candidates to prevent a loss of House seats?

And for anyone watching videos “demonstrating proof” of vote switching by Dominion machines, these are math parlor tricks conducted by con artists.

https://kabir-naim.medium.com/dr-shiva- ... 675ffe793c


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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:39 pm

shrugged wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:07 am
If the Dems rigged Dominion voting machines to steal the election, why didn’t they

- Win countrol of the Senate so they could actually get their agenda through Congress?
Right. Mitch McConnell is the biggest impediment to the Democrats. If they are brilliant enough to rig the presidential election across multiple states it should be child's play for them to get him out of the way and tip the senate in their favor.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:49 pm

shrugged wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:07 am
If the Dems rigged Dominion voting machines to steal the election, why didn’t they

- Win Florida where Dominion machines are very widely used?
- Win countrol of the Senate so they could actually get their agenda through Congress?
- Save down ballot House candidates to prevent a loss of House seats?

And for anyone watching videos “demonstrating proof” of vote switching by Dominion machines, these are math parlor tricks conducted by con artists.
There are dozens of reasons why things might go one way or another. The psychology of cheating is pretty complex. But obviously, if you win everytime the gig is up. Also there are many different way to apply the cheat.

Take the media for example. They had Hillary at 98% chance of winning. Either they knew something or they lied, because what happened was statically impossible. And, did Trump actually deserve all of those nasty things said about him? Like, he got North Korea to chill, the Russia hoax was investigated, Biden is being charged with corruption in Ukraine, he did build the wall, he got peace deals on the middle East, there is actually as 1000 promises he kept and most or all good for his voters.

Point is, the media was trying to put their foot on the scales plus Big Tech in a way that is illegal and dishonest.

Then there is political cheating. They impreached the president for a phone call to investigate a real corruption. Media lied about it. Mitt Romney is like legit playing for the other team. I think both he and McCain were Dem agents. Romney has skin on the game in Ukraine.

Then there is the machines. They were, I'm told, designed in Venezuela. They don't outright cheat but are controlled remotely to add just enough to win on the races they care cheat on. But they went too far on this on. They numbers are crazy. Some precincts had 400% turn out. Sometimes there were batches of votes that have Biden 300,000 voters without a single Trump vote.

Cnsl1
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Cnsl1 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:04 am

:lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:

I was told that he was impreached because he was impeared and that the machines were controlled remotely in Belize but that it wasn't actually big tech, but rather Dax Shepard. And the wall is there. I've seen it. Ok, so it looks more like a fence, but it's a taller fence than it used to be, and ok so it's not totally completely all there and yes it's possible to run across the line and take a leak then run back in some places, no thanks to Hillary and the Russians, who ARE 95% sure they don't want us fracking because hey, they've got oil to sell here, and speaking of oil... I have a brother in law who is a direct constituent of Mitt Romney, and he says that he is 98% sure that senator Romney has fibbed on at least one occasion to his grandkids. My only question is this... Does Santa Claus count? Because Sidney Powell doesn't count. She just got voted off the island of misfit ploys, which probably tells you something about her integrity. If you're too crazy for the crazy people, you probably need your own island.

Cnsl1
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Cnsl1 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:05 am

:lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:

I was told that he was impreached because he was impeared and that the machines were controlled remotely in Belize but that it wasn't actually big tech, but rather Dax Shepard. And the wall is there. I've seen it. Ok, so it looks more like a fence, but it's a taller fence than it used to be, and ok so it's not totally completely all there and yes it's possible to run across the line and take a leak then run back in some places, no thanks to Hillary and the Russians, who ARE 95% sure they don't want us fracking because hey, they've got oil to sell here, and speaking of oil... I have a brother in law who is a direct constituent of Mitt Romney, and he says that he is 98% sure that senator Romney has fibbed on at least one occasion to his grandkids. My only question is this... Does Santa Claus count? Because Sidney Powell doesn't count. She just got voted off the island of misfit ploys, which probably tells you something about her integrity. If you're too crazy for the crazy people, you probably need your own island.

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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:23 am

Cnsl1 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:04 am
:lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:

I was told that he was impreached because he was impeared and that the machines were controlled remotely in Belize but that it wasn't actually big tech, but rather Dax Shepard. And the wall is there. I've seen it. Ok, so it looks more like a fence, but it's a taller fence than it used to be, and ok so it's not totally completely all there and yes it's possible to run across the line and take a leak then run back in some places, no thanks to Hillary and the Russians, who ARE 95% sure they don't want us fracking because hey, they've got oil to sell here, and speaking of oil... I have a brother in law who is a direct constituent of Mitt Romney, and he says that he is 98% sure that senator Romney has fibbed on at least one occasion to his grandkids. My only question is this... Does Santa Claus count? Because Sidney Powell doesn't count. She just got voted off the island of misfit ploys, which probably tells you something about her integrity. If you're too crazy for the crazy people, you probably need your own island.
Trumps biggest success was in convincing half the country that all media is fake because it doesn't agree with him. That leaves no option but to turn to rumors and conspiracy theories from Facebook and Twitter as sources of information. I wish someone could explain to me who the evil genius is who somehow got all of the networks, newspapers, NPR, Fox*, PBS, the BBC, Al Jazeera, etc, etc, etc, to conspire together on the major points of pretty much all aspects of news to support Nancy Pelosi's agenda, and how they accomplished it.

So far most of Trump's lawsuits have been dismissed for having no merit or no evidence. The federal judge for the latest effort in Pennsylvania called the suit a "Frankenstein's Monster” that “strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations."

*people often confuse the opinions of Fox commentators as news while the actual news component of Fox, biased as it is, may be saying something different.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:01 am

Cnsl1 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:04 am
:lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:

I was told that he was impreached because he was impeared and that the machines were controlled remotely in Belize but that it wasn't actually big tech, but rather Dax Shepard. And the wall is there. I've seen it. Ok, so it looks more like a fence, but it's a taller fence than it used to be, and ok so it's not totally completely all there and yes it's possible to run across the line and take a leak then run back in some places, no thanks to Hillary and the Russians, who ARE 95% sure they don't want us fracking because hey, they've got oil to sell here, and speaking of oil... I have a brother in law who is a direct constituent of Mitt Romney, and he says that he is 98% sure that senator Romney has fibbed on at least one occasion to his grandkids. My only question is this... Does Santa Claus count? Because Sidney Powell doesn't count. She just got voted off the island of misfit ploys, which probably tells you something about her integrity. If you're too crazy for the crazy people, you probably need your own island.
If you can fib about Santa Clause, you have no boundaries.

The rest of it seems to say, "You are too crazy to play with us."

Fine. I have my own balls anyway.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:10 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:23 am
Cnsl1 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:04 am
:lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:

I was told that he was impreached because he was impeared and that the machines were controlled remotely in Belize but that it wasn't actually big tech, but rather Dax Shepard. And the wall is there. I've seen it. Ok, so it looks more like a fence, but it's a taller fence than it used to be, and ok so it's not totally completely all there and yes it's possible to run across the line and take a leak then run back in some places, no thanks to Hillary and the Russians, who ARE 95% sure they don't want us fracking because hey, they've got oil to sell here, and speaking of oil... I have a brother in law who is a direct constituent of Mitt Romney, and he says that he is 98% sure that senator Romney has fibbed on at least one occasion to his grandkids. My only question is this... Does Santa Claus count? Because Sidney Powell doesn't count. She just got voted off the island of misfit ploys, which probably tells you something about her integrity. If you're too crazy for the crazy people, you probably need your own island.
Trumps biggest success was in convincing half the country that all media is fake because it doesn't agree with him. That leaves no option but to turn to rumors and conspiracy theories from Facebook and Twitter as sources of information. I wish someone could explain to me who the evil genius is who somehow got all of the networks, newspapers, NPR, Fox*, PBS, the BBC, Al Jazeera, etc, etc, etc, to conspire together on the major points of pretty much all aspects of news to support Nancy Pelosi's agenda, and how they accomplished it.

So far most of Trump's lawsuits have been dismissed for having no merit or no evidence. The federal judge for the latest effort in Pennsylvania called the suit a "Frankenstein's Monster” that “strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations."

*people often confuse the opinions of Fox commentators as news while the actual news component of Fox, biased as it is, may be saying something different.
The problem with this is that is sort of insulting. Like, I didn't need Trump to convince me that the media was fake. The evil genius is complicated. We could just call it evil.

Tell me this? Where is the evil genius of our world? Do we think that evil has just taken a holiday? Suddenly nothing is taboo or bad, unless it is having faith, believing in your country, defending your rights, protecting your family, etc.

There is a larger spirit at play and I don't want to call it evil, but rather immature. But there always the old ones, like greed, thirst for power, desire to dominate. Oh, go ahead and say that is Trump, but it isn't. Trump promotes free speech, national pride, setting your house in order, protecting our rights.

Money is a hidden messenger, it can move in hidden paths. But there is an agenda that is attacking white men right, and even though that is obvious you are going to say something like, "they deserve it." And, what would want to attack white men?

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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:04 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:10 am
Tell me this? Where is the evil genius of our world?
I wrote a long response to this, but I then I remembered that I promised to try to hold my tongue until February so I deleted it.

Really there is no evil genius, there are just degrees of selfishness, hatred, and assholishness that are so extreme most of us can't wrap our heads around it. And that is the real evil in this world. If people can't recognize that then, to quote recently fired (for having some spine) Secretary of Defense Mark Espers, "God help us!"
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:24 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:04 am
SaidNobody wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:10 am
Tell me this? Where is the evil genius of our world?
I wrote a long response to this, but I then I remembered that I promised to try to hold my tongue until February so I deleted it.

Really there is no evil genius, there are just degrees of selfishness, hatred, and assholishness that are so extreme most of us can't wrap our heads around it. And that is the real evil in this world. If people can't recognize that then, to quote recently fired (for having some spine) Secretary of Defense Mark Espers, "God help us!"
Thanks for holding your tongue.

I love the Mormon phrase "the devil's job is to convince you that he doesn't exist."

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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:45 pm

Today's news:
Michigan certified Biden's win and the General Services Administration (GSA) has formally designated Joe Biden the winner of the election and will now make federal resources available to the Biden administration and begin the process of of transition. Goodbye Mr. Trump.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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