Turks and the Dutch

Chat about a topic supported by books, TED Talks, podcasts, personal experience, philosophies of mankind mingled with humor (shout out to IOT), and maybe we’ll even do a google hangout or conference call once a month.
Post Reply
User avatar
redjay
Posts: 405
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:20 pm

Turks and the Dutch

Post by redjay » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:37 am

In response to a request on another thread this is a ham fisted attempt to explain what's going on in Europe right now.

The Dutch are about to go to the polls to vote for a government. Right-Wing parties are having a resurgence in Europe and there is a right wing politician called Geert Wilders who has been gaining traction in the Netherlands. Although Geert is unlikely to enter government the incumbent party will not want to further his cause.

The Turkish President is Recep Erdogan. He is seeking to change the Turkish constitution so he has more presidential powers. To do this he must influence upcoming Turkish elections/votes. There are a lot of Turks living in European countries e.g. 400,000 in the Netherlands, who are eligible to vote. Erdogan has been encouraging rallies in countries such as the Netherlands, Germany and France where Turks will gather in the cause of voting how Erdogan wants them to vote. Erdogan is divisive and plays the religious card - basically sets himself up as noble and a defender of the faith. Traditionally Turkey has had a secular government and was seen as a progressive country. Erdogan has divided Turkey, so much so there was an attempted coup July 2016 which failed. Erdogan's response to the coup indicates he is dictatorial e.g. he sacked or suspended 100,000 government workers.

Erdogan wanted some Turkish government officials/ministers to speak at the Dutch rallies. The Dutch would not allow the Turkish ministers into the country. The Dutch cited safety concerns (e.g. Pro and Anti Erdogan Supporters clashing) but it seems to me more likely that the Dutch do not want to encourage newsworthy rallies where brown faces and Islamic flags are being waved, especially in the run up to the Dutch elections - as that might play into Geert Wilders hands.

That's my take on it.
At the halfway home. I'm a full-grown man. But I'm not afraid to cry.

User avatar
Corsair
Posts: 2823
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:58 am
Location: Phoenix

Re: Turks and the Dutch

Post by Corsair » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:47 am

Thanks for your commentary, redjay. I am hoping that Meilingkie comments on this also.

User avatar
Meilingkie
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:40 pm

Re: Turks and the Dutch

Post by Meilingkie » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:01 am

The Turkish consulate in Rotterdam is 300 yards from my office. Literally.
A few coworkers were there on saturdayevening, and it was and is quite scary.
Then again, Turkish demomstations happen there a few times every year.
This time was different though.

Redjay is quite right, many Turks feel that Erdogan is their man. One reason for this was explained by one of my co-workers.

Voting in Erdogan saved him 15000 Euro's.
He has 3 sons and Turkey has mandatory conscription. Meaning every man between 18/40 has to serve.
You have 2 options, stay out of Turkey, or pay EUR 6000 to bribe it off.
Erdogan campaigned on reducing it to EUR 1000.
My co-worker has 3 sons, do the math.

All Turkish citizens also get 20% rebate on all flight with Turkish Airlines to and from Turkey.

And another point, Turkish passports are automatically granted if ANY ancestor is Turkish.

Many people over here are very anxious about the growing influence of islam, and political islam in Europe.
We have had quite the number of terrorist attacks, but also smaller things, like intimidation on the street of our young women.
Being called whore/slut/etc.
Schools catering to Muslims with food, refusong to sell baconsandwiches, keeping the menu simple and saving a Buck. But it's also seen as being too PC.

I could go on and on....
6% of the Dutch Population is Muslim, but in the 4 major cities it's 40% of the Youth.
55% of Moroccan Youth has a rapsheet, VS 3% of Dutch Youth.

Just some figures and facts
The Church is the "fount of vicarious shame" that keeps on giving

User avatar
FiveFingerMnemonic
Posts: 1392
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Turks and the Dutch

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:09 am

Excellent summary thanks for sharing!

User avatar
Meilingkie
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:40 pm

Re: Turks and the Dutch

Post by Meilingkie » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:59 am

OK, just arrived home for dinner.
We are eating döner, how ironic.

Dutch people in general say: Turks are not the problem, they mind their own business and try to contribute. Moroccans and Somalians on the other hand......

But could you Imagine Geert Wilders going to Alanya and campaign amongst the retirees living there?
Or Trump going to London to campaign amongst the US Expats for his reëlection in 2020??
The Church is the "fount of vicarious shame" that keeps on giving

Korihor
Posts: 1236
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:37 am

Re: Turks and the Dutch

Post by Korihor » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:22 am

This is fascinating, I've heard bits and pieces of the drama between Holland and Turkey, but didn't understand the issues at hand.

Looks like the right wing is uprising in Europe like it did with the US. It seems immigrants, liberalists, and the like are all fine and dandy in other countries - but once they are a force in your own country it's a problem.
You have 2 options, stay out of Turkey, or pay EUR 6000 to bribe it off.
Erdogan campaigned on reducing it to EUR 1000.
Did you mean to say EUR 6,000 fee? or is it really a bribe and under the table deal?

Thanks boys for the background info. I really appreciate it.
Reading can severely damage your ignorance.

User avatar
Meilingkie
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:40 pm

Re: Turks and the Dutch

Post by Meilingkie » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:31 am

Bribe, fee.
You buy it off.
The Church is the "fount of vicarious shame" that keeps on giving

User avatar
achilles
Posts: 437
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:17 pm

Re: Turks and the Dutch

Post by achilles » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:37 pm

refusong to sell baconsandwiches
No bacon sandwiches? I had a BLT yesterday, and I might go to war to protect my right to future BLTs.
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”

― Carl Sagan

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest