Utah County's Seething Underbelly

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Give It Time
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Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by Give It Time » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:59 am

When I first moved here, one of the houses I looked at was in foreclosure. It was near a golf course in a nice small town. The house had no kitchen to speak of because it wasn't finished and it looked like fights had taken place in it. Most of the bedrooms had light carpet and the carpet had perfectly square dirt stains that covered the entire carpet save for a one foot border around the very edge of the carpet. The garage floor was elaborately tiled and was clearly a party space. My now XH guessed that it had been a drug house and had been a place where marijuana had been grown. There are holes in that guess, but a plausible explanation. We didn't​ take the house.

Back when I was in the final stages of my marriage and making the final decision to divorce, I wanted to pray about that decision. My temple recommend had lapsed, so I couldn't go to a temple. I learned of a park overlooking Utah County and went there. There weren't too many people in the park. There was a police car in the parking lot, but nothing seemed to be going on. I parked overlooking the Valley and prayed. I was there maybe ten minutes. After my prayer, I started the car and went back down the hill. The police car followed me. I didn't think anything of it until he flashed his lights. I pulled over. He asked me what I'd been doing up in the parking lot. "Praying", I said, trying hard not to let my annoyance show and not doing a very good job.

I drive an early 2000s Corolla that has been through some rough winters and looks it. I am middle-aged. I am overweight and you would be able to tell by looking at me through a car window. I don't wear fancy clothes. One day, I was driving along with some other cars. I was matching their speed, but was contemplating passing someone. I changed lanes. I noticed a police car changed lanes aggressively into the lane behind me. I didn't mind. I hadn't been paying attention to the speed limit and I looked at my speedometer and saw that had I speed up to pass someone, I would have been speeding. However, that police officer stayed on my tail for about four miles. He faked plans to turn and followed me through an intersection. He followed me turn for turn. When he'd been following me for three miles, he turned down a neighborhood street and I thought he'd finally moved on, but it was one of those streets that does a wide loop and rejoined the road about 3/4 of a mile later. He was seeing if I would speed when he wasn't looking. I was getting ready to drive to the police station with him on my tail, because I was considering his behavior harassing. He finally turned to go do something else.

The park in hindsight, and my son informs me, probably was suspicion of drug oriented activity. That's why the police car was in the parking lot in the first place. The tailing me I think was just a police officer on a power trip. However, I've lived in a few areas, now, in a few states. I have definitely seen more unusual things like that house and the encounters with the police here than any other place I've lived. While these are certainly on the benignly annoying side I think they clearly show something is going on here that isn't talked about much. I'm not sure if the police are unusually harassing here or if the middle-aged, unattractive, unassuming female population are some sort of demographic for illegal activity.

Anyone know anything about Utah County's seething underbelly?
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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Newme
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Re: Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by Newme » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:19 am

I might know of the park you're talking about and I have seen some stuff - just smoking pot, people parked looking like they're waiting for someone and a condum in the bathroom. I took one of my kids' friends home the other day and he said he lives in "the projects" and I laughed but he said there are areas (apartments etc.) where some stuff goes on.

Still, compared to where I grew up, Utah county doesn't have much crime. A truck-driver friend came to visit and this cop kept driving back and forth - as if he'd never seen a truck. They get bored, though someone who's family was chief of police told me they get a lot of domestic violence calls, which I think is a high percentage of calls of cops in other areas too.

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Give It Time
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Re: Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by Give It Time » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:28 am

When I was getting free of my marriage, I was helped by some people in DV. What goes on in this Valley? The hair on your toes would curl.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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Newme
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Re: Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by Newme » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:55 am

Give It Time wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:28 am
When I was getting free of my marriage, I was helped by some people in DV. What goes on in this Valley? The hair on your toes would curl.
I can imagine. I considered being a peer parent & went to foster parent class - and realized I couldn't do it. It would break my heart. I've reported a case once of people I was living with - and that was bad enough. Anxiety attacks like I'd never experienced.

What's DV?

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Give It Time
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Re: Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by Give It Time » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:10 pm

Newme wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:55 am
Give It Time wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:28 am
When I was getting free of my marriage, I was helped by some people in DV. What goes on in this Valley? The hair on your toes would curl.
I can imagine. I considered being a peer parent & went to foster parent class - and realized I couldn't do it. It would break my heart. I've reported a case once of people I was living with - and that was bad enough. Anxiety attacks like I'd never experienced.

What's DV?
Domestic Violence
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

Korihor
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Re: Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by Korihor » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:23 pm

My story is not as cool, but in the same vein.

Back in 2004, We lived in Utah County for a short time while attending BYU. One night, Mrs Kori and I got into a tiff and I left for short drive to calm down (maybe I bought a soda?). Anyway, driving down a back road that was nice and quiet, it was around midnight-ish and a cop pulls me over for .... a burned out license plate light.

It was obvious they were looking for something to do that night. They were rather thoroughly shining their flashlights into my car doing their best to see something, anything.
Reading can severely damage your ignorance.

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Give It Time
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Re: Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by Give It Time » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:10 pm

Korihor wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:23 pm
My story is not as cool, but in the same vein.

Back in 2004, We lived in Utah County for a short time while attending BYU. One night, Mrs Kori and I got into a tiff and I left for short drive to calm down (maybe I bought a soda?). Anyway, driving down a back road that was nice and quiet, it was around midnight-ish and a cop pulls me over for .... a burned out license plate light.

It was obvious they were looking for something to do that night. They were rather thoroughly shining their flashlights into my car doing their best to see something, anything.
I'm wondering what is going on behind the scenes, sometimes. I know that someone not wanting their license plate seen is a red flag, but it is extremely possible to have that light burn out and not know about it. To do a thorough search for just cause seems a little extreme. Of course, you could have pretty closely matched the physical description of a suspect. Still, i lived in California for quite some time and I was stopped one time: I used my husband's car to go to the pharmacy late at night, because our child needed something and we ran out. Since I was not the primary driver, I didn't know the tail light was burned out.

In Arizona, I was stopped, because I was speeding (going the regular speed limit) in a construction zone. Those were all the interactions I had with police in those states, other than exchanging pleasantries while standing in line at the convenience store.

So, I'm wondering why all the hyper-vigilance from the local law enforcement? Is it really that bad here or are they just bored?
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

Korihor
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Re: Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by Korihor » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:16 pm

Give It Time wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:10 pm
So, I'm wondering why all the hyper-vigilance from the local law enforcement? Is it really that bad here or are they just bored?
Boredom. Actually, it isn't boredom, it's a carry over of the mormon culture. Magnifying your calling and all that BS. If the most excitement a Cop sees is a few drug busts, ANYTHING would be interesting. It's not like LA/NY where shiz gets real. They need to make sure everyone is following the law with exactness.

This is what happens in a goody-two-shoes world. The minutiae becomes a big deal because of relativism.
Reading can severely damage your ignorance.

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Give It Time
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Re: Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by Give It Time » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:09 pm

Korihor wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:16 pm
Give It Time wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:10 pm
So, I'm wondering why all the hyper-vigilance from the local law enforcement? Is it really that bad here or are they just bored?
Boredom. Actually, it isn't boredom, it's a carry over of the mormon culture. Magnifying your calling and all that BS. If the most excitement a Cop sees is a few drug busts, ANYTHING would be interesting. It's not like LA/NY where shiz gets real. They need to make sure everyone is following the law with exactness.

This is what happens in a goody-two-shoes world. The minutiae becomes a big deal because of relativism.
That's been my feeling as I've been writing these posts. There may be crimes in this area, as there are in any area, but this just seems like some overly controlling behavior from some officers who just don't have enough to do. Nice to know there isn't really a seething under-belly (although, a bit of gossip was shared with me that there are five pot smokers in my ward).
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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Random
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Re: Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by Random » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:48 pm

Korihor wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:23 pm
My story is not as cool, but in the same vein.

Back in 2004, We lived in Utah County for a short time while attending BYU. One night, Mrs Kori and I got into a tiff and I left for short drive to calm down (maybe I bought a soda?). Anyway, driving down a back road that was nice and quiet, it was around midnight-ish and a cop pulls me over for .... a burned out license plate light.

It was obvious they were looking for something to do that night. They were rather thoroughly shining their flashlights into my car doing their best to see something, anything.
This was in Thatcher, AZ, but I was in the college library when the wind knocked a tree branch onto the truck I had driven there. A cop came in and asked, in general, if anyone was in there by such and such a name (the truck was not in my name, so it took me a few minutes to realize he was talking about the vehicle I was driving). I went outside, and the cop was writing a collision report. I was like wtf? I had to show him the registration, as well as proof of insurance (only it wasn't insured, it turns out). As far as I know, neither the tree nor the college got cited, but I thought for a few minutes that I was going to get cited for having the audacity to park in the parking space under said tree.
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

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Re: Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by Random » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:52 pm

I think the Thatcher cops were incredibly bored, though.

Some years later, I left church early and was walking home. I stopped to have a text chat with my son. A cop was parked sort of nearby and drove up to see if I needed anything. I got the impression that he thought I was acting suspicious.

Another time, I was walking to the temple (I was in Central), and a cop stopped me because there was a car down the road, just parked there. He thought it was my car and that I needed help, so that was nice. But that was more highway patrol, not Thatcher police.
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

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Give It Time
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Re: Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by Give It Time » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:02 pm

While we're on the subject of good cop stories. On New Year's Eve, SLC does a family friendly celebration called EVE. I was standing at one of the TRAX stations waiting for the next lightrail. It was cold! Along came a police car. The officer rolled down his window and asked if any of us needed handwarmers. We did! He tossed them out to us. It was kind of fun and much appreciated.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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Random
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Re: Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by Random » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:33 pm

That's cool! I like that story.
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

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Give It Time
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Re: Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by Give It Time » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:59 pm

Random wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:33 pm
That's cool! I like that story.
I do, too. I generally appreciate police officers. Tough, dangerous job.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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Emower
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Re: Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by Emower » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:56 am

Random wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:52 pm
I think the Thatcher cops were incredibly bored, though.

Some years later, I left church early and was walking home. I stopped to have a text chat with my son. A cop was parked sort of nearby and drove up to see if I needed anything. I got the impression that he thought I was acting suspicious.

Another time, I was walking to the temple (I was in Central), and a cop stopped me because there was a car down the road, just parked there. He thought it was my car and that I needed help, so that was nice. But that was more highway patrol, not Thatcher police.
I went to eac too! At the time I couldn't wait to get away, but I have some good memories now.

tryingtogetitright
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Re: Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by tryingtogetitright » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:58 pm

My response would have been, "Why did you stop me?" And "Am I legally required to answer your question?" The first question would be to narrow down what he could claim was his probable cause, and the second because you don't have to tell him what you were doing in the park, and he knows it. (He could have been making small talk to see if you were impaired, but he can't do that either without probable cause to have stopped you.) I hope you reported the incident to the police chief in writing.

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Give It Time
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Re: Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by Give It Time » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:09 am

tryingtogetitright wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:58 pm
My response would have been, "Why did you stop me?" And "Am I legally required to answer your question?" The first question would be to narrow down what he could claim was his probable cause, and the second because you don't have to tell him what you were doing in the park, and he knows it. (He could have been making small talk to see if you were impaired, but he can't do that either without probable cause to have stopped you.) I hope you reported the incident to the police chief in writing.
I didn't. I was divorcing an abusive man. I had other hills to die on. Good points, though.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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Random
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Re: Utah County's Seething Underbelly

Post by Random » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:26 pm

Emower wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:56 am
I went to eac too! At the time I couldn't wait to get away, but I have some good memories now.
Cool! 8-)

I've never seriously pursued a degree there (I'd already gotten one at Dixie Junior College, which has since grown up and now calls itself a University), but I've taken classes here and there over the years. The thing I miss most since I've moved is that I'm old enough to take classes there for free (but if I want to audit, I have to pay full price). I did take classes one year, just after I got old enough, but still had to pay for books. Ex's cousin is pres of the college (I guess he still is, anyway.)
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

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