Finally Saw Rogue One

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Mad Jax
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Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by Mad Jax » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:04 pm

I didn't see a topic on this so I'm starting my own. Against every expectation, I liked this film. I had little hope for a good Star Wars film since I've pretty much disliked all but two of them before R1. But I have to say, I think breaking the mold (no crawl, different choice of music, outside "timeline" films, etc) might be the way to save the franchise from the banality that plagued it since before R1 came out.

Unfortunately, I have no desire to see either a Boba Fett film or a Han Solo film, and I don't think these projects sound like good creative ground for film making, so I'm hesitant to be too optimistic. It's obvious to me the sequel trilogy can't be saved given the fumbled start it has with how terrible episode VII was, so I think Star Wars needs fresh blood behind it before it will get back on track, if ever. That will take ten years at minimum, I think. Still, it was nice to have a fresh film with Rogue One.

I think the thing that stuck out the most to me was the detail put into making the Empire such a living, breathing organization. Its menace was felt throughout the fabric of the film and even though there was some of the same trope-ish stormtrooper aim and other elements, I felt the cinematography minimized it while still allowing for "main character armor" to be included. I don't want to spoil, of course, though I'm sure most everyone who wants to see it has done so. But I think this film will prove to be the best film made since TESB, and I hope the suits at Lucasfilm take it as a lesson in how to do it right.

It's not perfect, but its minor flaws don't really bug me that much. I'd say between 7-8 stars out of 10.
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Corsair
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by Corsair » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:47 am

I agree that it was fun. I enjoyed seeing Tarkin in CGI format and it was nice to see Darth Vader in all his menacing glory. It heavily depended on 40 years of goodwill from Star Wars fans and some of the plot details were kind of silly.

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nibbler
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by nibbler » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:16 am

Probably goes wihtout saying but the prequels killed my enthusiasm for all things Star Wars. Up to that point I had read some of the expanded universe books so I was somewhere between fan of the movies and all out SW nerd.

I didn't want to watch e3 but forced myself to, just for sake of completion, but after that I was done. The trailer for TFA renewed enough interest to watch the film and I'm glad I did. TFA was weak on story but I found that I cared about the characters and wanted to see what happened to them next. Much more than I could say about anyone in the prequels.

So I'm excited for the Last Jedi, just to see what happens to the new blood.

Rogue One was kinda meh for me. I don't really need a story to flesh out every throw-away line of dialog from the OT. While Tarkin looked good there was still way too much uncanny valley effect going on. It really took me out of the film. There were parts I liked and other parts I didn't like. I never felt a connection with any of the characters and the blind pseudo-Jedi that kicks butt felt a little too cliché for my tastes so he became another character that was distracting.

It wasn't bad, it wasn't good, but I did like how they broke the formula here and there.

The stand-alone Han Solo movie? Ugh. No chance. It does not interest me. I'm one of those that wants them to EXPAND the universe. Get away from the same half-dozen people in the galaxy. Shake things up. Go Knights of the Old Republic. Set it in a different time. Do something NEW. No more death stars no more Skywalkers no more backstories to how Salacious Crumb ended up with Jabba after he parted ways with Chewie's first cousin. Do something NEW.
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

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Lithium Sunset
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by Lithium Sunset » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:13 pm

I didn't want to see it at first, thinking it was just a cash cow, but ended up seeing in the theater with the fam and liked it well enough. I appreciate the idea that you can do something great that saves/helps a lot of people and not really get credit for it. Some things are worth dying for. I did not like the CGI smile at the end. That was not to character. We could have just had a back shot (hope that was vague enough).

I hated I, II, III but love the originals, IV, V, VI. I am enjoying all these strong female leads and Rey is no different. It did seem like The Force Awakens was a bit too much like A New Hope.
And I hate the kids like Kylo Ren but what can you do... (beside support and look up to murders in cool costumes. Hey, if killing kids wasn't enough for you then let's kill a parent... okay, sorry for that rant).

I will see the next one because I like the main characters as well. I was so glad they learned to balance the CGI. Hopefully Chewy gets some realistic grey hair, unless wookiees never age or go grey haha.

I am definitely not interested in a Boba Fett or Han Solo spin off. Not sure I could be dragged to it either (sounds like father son time to me).

Now I will tell you a film that is driving me absolutely crazy... Alien Covenant. My parents had me watch Aliens when I was 7 and it scared the @#$% out of me. We watched it at night and I was so scared. They thought making me watch it again during the day would solve the problem haha. The movies can still make me quicken my pace in the dark if I have just watched one. Let's pretend the 4th one never happened). I somehow love the films and watch them cleaned up on TV. I want to see this one but it's R of course and even if I put that aside, I will probably be kept awake like a scared little kid for a month haha! I have watched the trailer several times... what is wrong with me? That's a thread jack isn't it... sorry!
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." -Laura Ingalls Wilder

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Enoch Witty
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by Enoch Witty » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:40 pm

I'll go on record as the forum's unequivocal Star Wars fan who thought this was one of the best Star Wars movies. The fan service, tone, characters, and settings were all great. I can recognize the imperfections in a Star Wars film, but I still love them.

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nibbler
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by nibbler » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:26 pm

Lithium Sunset wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:13 pm
Hopefully Chewy gets some realistic grey hair, unless wookiees never age or go grey haha.
Nerd hat.

Wookies have a lifespan of 400 years. He was about 200 in e4 so he was about 230 in e7. Still, that's slightly over the hill. Old enough to have a little gray.
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

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Mad Jax
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by Mad Jax » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:04 pm

I can't help but agree with nibbler when he says no more OT dependence. I didn't feel as though this film did a disservice with its fan services though. For the most part the setting was the same but the new characters were the focus. I only needed the director, Galen, and Jyn to carry the story but I felt I got more than I needed. That's one more functional character than the last four films had (Qui Gon and Rey)
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2bizE
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by 2bizE » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:58 pm

Enoch Witty wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:40 pm
I'll go on record as the forum's unequivocal Star Wars fan who thought this was one of the best Star Wars movies. The fan service, tone, characters, and settings were all great. I can recognize the imperfections in a Star Wars film, but I still love them.
This too was my favorite of all.
~2bizE

Korihor
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by Korihor » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:15 pm

I'm just a basic star wars fan, they don't have to do much but show light sabers, a few storm troopers and play Darth Vader music and I like it.
Reading can severely damage your ignorance.

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LaMachina
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by LaMachina » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:50 pm

It's really interesting to read the varying opinions on this one.

As a kid I'm sure I viewed Star Wars the same way I viewed candy. Give me more please (my first cinematic experience was Return of the Jedi so the series left an impression on my young mind). Now I find that too much just gives me a tummy ache. I'm slightly concerned that every movie made for the rest of my life will be the Avengers or Star Wars or a live-action Disney remake...

But of course I saw Rogue One. I was pretty disappointed. It was professionally done but I found it so BORING. The characters just didn't get me to care about them. I felt like there was a good movie in there somewhere but it didn't work for me. Vader kicking some ass was fun but that was about it...and creepy CGI faces are creepy, please stop.

I feel like if they are gonna stay in this Star Wars universe with the same storyline, just re-make the prequels (come on, they've done it with Spiderman like 5 times already!) The Force Awakens was far from perfect (please stop with the fan service moments, they stick out like sore thumbs and negatively affect story telling. And can the Empire please, please stop constructing Death Stars...thanks) but I loved Kylo Ren. He was the Anakin Skywalker we all deserved. Absolutely menacing but a bit of a basketcase and emotionally immature which made him even more menacing IMO. Give me a legitimately great film about Anakin and Obi Wan and that would be enough for me.

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document
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by document » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:23 am

I went in angry. I'm a big EU guy, so I was unhappy to see that they were essentially giving a big middle finger to Kyle Katarn (in the EU, he steals the Death Star plans). I was also really angry about Episode VII, because I felt that they Zahn's route with the Thrawn series was a much better route than the direction Abrams took it. I loved the twins, and I loved the introduction of one of my favorite characters, Mara Jade.

I _loved_ the pew-pew stuff in Episode VII, but it was such a re-hash of New Hope, and it made very little sense to me. I disliked the Prequels for the writing and acting, but the story itself was compelling and the Old Republic fascinates me. I thoroughly enjoyed CW (both 2D and 3D) and they are to me what the prequels should have been. I've been enjoying Rebels, but mostly because Ahsoka Tano is one of my favorite characters in the SW universe (but only if you watch all of CW and don't just get turned off by an annoying teenager, she grows up, which is part of why CW is AWESOME).

That said, I went in angry about Katarn and had extremely low expectations.

I walked out of the theater and realized that it was my second favorite out of the entire series (behind Empire, because...Empire!). I saw it 7 times in theaters (I get free movie tickets from work). I _loved_ it. From beginning to end, I loved it. The acting, the writing, the gritty feel, the in-fighting of the rebellion, all of it. It had a far more EU / original feel than the prequels, the CW, Rebels, or Episode VII. Darth Vader is scary again, not a winy teenager.

The mediocre films always have one AMAZING scene that doesn't make up for the movie. Episode I had Darth Maul, Episode II has Jengo Fett vs. Obiwan, Episode III had Anakin v. Obiwan, Episode VII had X-wings on the water.

This movie has its "one scene" (hallway scene, I mean, come on, amazing), but it wasn't like the others which just felt like overcompensation for a bad film. Not in this case, it was just awesome at the end of awesome.

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Mad Jax
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by Mad Jax » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:39 pm

I'm so with you document. I still maintain that Episode VII did nothing but diminish the Star Wars universe and that scrapping the EU for that film was like trading a blue chip stock for a wooden nickel. But Rogue One proved itself. Whereas Vector Prime curb stomps TFA in terms of quality story, R1 and Dark Forces are a really close match. I don't think R1 is a perfect film, but at least it's a good film that doesn't treat Star Wars fans like barking seals. And what it gets right, it gets right. I could find a dozen things to nitpick at it and I think I'd have a solid case, but they really don't matter.

Unfortunately, I still think it looks pretty dismal for the future of the franchise. I think they made a fatally and spectacularly stupid mistake in one aspect; they changed the galactic map. Stars and planets are not where they used to be, landmarks are on different planets and those that exist in both timelines have glaringly different attributes. I'm not unlearning the old map with its hyperspace lanes and trade routes and astrogation hazards and political regions and trying to keep straight what is old and what is new. And I doubt I'm alone in this. Which means they lost a significant percentage of anybody who actually cares about a kind of expanded universe. Bad mistake.
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document
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by document » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:58 pm

I consider myself a so-so fan of Star Wars, I'm really more of a Trekker. But, I love all my Star movies.

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Mad Jax
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by Mad Jax » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:10 pm

Star Trek is really hit or miss for me. I like it, and enjoy the tech aspect of it when it comes up, but there's something about it that's always made me less enthusiastic about it. If I was to be said to be a big fan of anything, I think it would be Warhammer 40K.
Free will is a golden thread flowing through the matrix of fixed events.

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Mad Jax
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by Mad Jax » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:13 pm

BTW who would you say your favorite author was? Mine would be Robert Heinlein without hesitation. Starship Troopers is easily my favorite novel, though critically I would say The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is the best one of his that I've read.
Free will is a golden thread flowing through the matrix of fixed events.

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Corsair
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by Corsair » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:29 am

Mad Jax wrote:
Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:10 pm
Star Trek is really hit or miss for me. I like it, and enjoy the tech aspect of it when it comes up, but there's something about it that's always made me less enthusiastic about it. If I was to be said to be a big fan of anything, I think it would be Warhammer 40K.
I would love to see a good Warhammer 40K movie.

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document
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by document » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:54 pm

Mad Jax wrote:
Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:13 pm
BTW who would you say your favorite author was? Mine would be Robert Heinlein without hesitation. Starship Troopers is easily my favorite novel, though critically I would say The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is the best one of his that I've read.
Arthur C. Clarke is my favorite SciFi author. :)

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document
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by document » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:55 pm

Mad Jax wrote:
Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:13 pm
BTW who would you say your favorite author was? Mine would be Robert Heinlein without hesitation. Starship Troopers is easily my favorite novel, though critically I would say The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is the best one of his that I've read.
Arthur C. Clarke is my favorite SciFi author. :)

Although, as my degree is in computer science, I'm a software engineer, and I'm a darn good debugger, among my favorite books is "I, Robot".

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Mad Jax
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by Mad Jax » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:58 am

I think Clarke, Asimov, and Heinlein are sort of the classic "holy trinity" of sci fi, if I'm not mistaken.

David Brin is interesting but he focuses on the wrong things IMO (too much character development, if that can be said to be a thing) and not enough on the tech and concept part. Dan Simmons did a nice job with Hyperion getting around the classic three act structure (by aping Canterbury Tales) but so far the sequel just can't hook me. Have you read Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson? As a coder I'm guessing you would have.
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LaMachina
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Re: Finally Saw Rogue One

Post by LaMachina » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:57 am

Image
:lol: Just kidding! But not really, I just mean that in an endearing way! You guys are obviously educated in Star Wars lore to a degree I will never be. As mentioned, the original trilogy resonated with me but that's as far as I went.

It's interesting that you guys went into this one with an immense amount of background knowledge, low expectations and loved it. I went in with a general knowledge (Many Bothans died to bring us this information - that was it really), middling expectations and I did not enjoy it except for the odd scene here and there. I went with my wife and mother-in-law who went in with very little knowledge and they spent the entire movie thinking Rey and Jyn were the same person. They were REALLY confused and it led to some interesting conversation about the movie afterward. It took 10 minutes before I realized the issue and that moment of realization for them was pretty hilarious.

But I'm afraid that this may be where these movies are heading, you need an immense amount of background knowledge to enjoy this stuff nowadays or even know what's going on...

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