So Today Is the Anniversary of my Baptism

[Mad Jax]

I suppose it's only right to be honest. I don't have any really strong regrets about joining the LDS church, but that doesn't change the fact that I understand how negatively it has affected others here. I guess in a way it led me to the path I'm on today and I'm glad to be here at least, which is something.

I guess I don't have any real reason for posting about it except that this is the kind of thing I do now around the anniversary; examine the past and maybe talk with people about it. Certainly not all memories are bad. A few that are negative enough to understand the experiences of others here, but nothing compared to what I got growing up under evangelicalism from the age of 10.

I think there's always going to be a profound difference in perspective between being raised within a certain religious environment and converting to it. I've noticed that for a few here, a more orthodox or perhaps stripped down version of Christianity seems preferable. I suppose I can understand that. I think it may be "grass is greener" syndrome. But it's all speculation on my part.

Anyway I'm just thinking "out loud" about it, not trying to make any points. Anybody is welcome to hang around this particular cracker barrel or walk past it if that's your inclination.

[MerrieMiss]

From my perspective, there does seem to be a difference between being raised Mormon and converting. One of my parents converted in college. Just a few things I’ve noticed:

• I was raised being told my converted parent was less valiant in the pre-existence (by my convert parent, no less). I don’t recall my BIC parent saying so.
• I never understood as a child how a less valiant person would be given a slimmer chance at joining the church. It seemed to me that by converting, my convert parent was the stronger one.
• I realized as a kid I would have never made the choice to join the church, so it was a good thing I was born into it.
• I was raised having non-Mormon relatives which kept me from having too much of a superiority complex.
• Having non-Mormon family showed me first-hand how divisive the church is.
• My convert parent is not as disgusted with the church as my BIC parent, just sees it as another flawed church, although regrets joining and the pain it caused their family.
• My convert parent would walk away from the church tomorrow if it weren’t for my unbelieving BIC parent’s need to still belong.
• My convert parent also remembers the date of baptism every year, always has.

I always thought it was weird when converts remember the date of their baptism. I guess I remember the date of mine, but I’d just turned eight, and I don’t really think about it. I don’t think about the anniversary of my endowment. But reading your post made me realize how important the date is – it’s the date when life really changed. I think I forget what a life changing experience it is to join the church when I never really had a choice and it was just what happened after your birthday.

I’d be curious to know, looking back, why you joined. I can’t see myself ever having joined the church if I had not been born into it. My parent, on the other hand, didn’t have the best home life, was looking for meaning, and had considered joining many churches. More than anything, the church promised a happy family and having been disappointed in that from birth, they joined the church believing it would be a panacea for unstable families.

[alas]

I was BIC, but still note the anniversary of my baptism. It also kind of marked a life changing event. Baptism is so hyped up...but for me it was kind of proof that my family didn't give a shit about me. My dad was inactive, so he wasn't willing/worthy to baptise me. My maternal grandfather had done the baptisms of my brothers. And I assumed he would be willing to baptise me also. He usually worked Saturday nights, so he had to trade work shifts to have that one magical Saturday before fast Sunday off. But they no longer confirmed the kids in F&T meeting, so why it had to be the Saturday before F&T meeting, I have no idea. But every month I reminded my grandfather that I wanted him to baptise me, and every month he didn't bother to trade shifts. This went on for 11 months. Finally my grandmother told my mother that if they didn't get me dunked before I turned 9, horrors, I would count as a convert baptism. My mother had not been willing to force me into being baptized against my will. I was not a bit sure I wanted to be baptized at all, (I had misgivings about the church being true even then) and I really wanted someone I knew to be able to do it if I *had* to be baptized. But displeasing her mother was all the incentive my mother needed to force me to go through with being baptized. My grandfather still could not be bothered to change shifts for me, though, so I was dunked by a stranger, and confirmed by a stranger. My mother drove me to the church, and in the assembly line of baptisms, I got dunked, then confirmed and then we drove home. Nobody else bothered to come, although a big deal had been made of my older brother's baptism. For a boy, it is a big deal, but for a girl, no more important than ....hiccuping. It was my big taste of not being important because I was a girl.

Years later, I decided that my baptism doesn't count because it was done against my will.

[Mad Jax]

I’d be curious to know, looking back, why you joined. I can’t see myself ever having joined the church if I had not been born into it. My parent, on the other hand, didn’t have the best home life, was looking for meaning, and had considered joining many churches. More than anything, the church promised a happy family and having been disappointed in that from birth, they joined the church believing it would be a panacea for unstable families.

I will answer as truthfully as I know how, and the meaning of that will be clear by the time I'm finished.

The surface, conscious reason was because I felt Christianity was fundamentally flawed but didn't want to abandon the good aspects of the faith with which I was raised since 10 yrs old. My biggest problem was this insistence in the doctrines that there is no other way to avoid damnation but the conscious acceptance of the atonement on the cross (usually this means baptism but all stripes of Christianity have some method to do this). To me, this meant a terribly unjust God simply permitted millions of human beings for millennia to pass out of this life and into a damnation of His making without the loophole he created being presented to them.

For me, Mormonism was an answer to this problem, possibly the only one. Not only is there actual effort in LDS doctrine by the Almighty to reach out to others and instruct them, but it's the only church which stresses the post-life opportunity scriptures and seems to actually accept what they say. This is not to say that I knew it was necessarily true, but to my mind, the only hope for Christianity to be true, unless God was whimsically cruel. Which was not something I was willing to accept.

The other reason, I believe, has to do with the manner of worship. I don't want to beleaguer anyone with too much detail but I've recently been in a pretty intense therapy program and in addition to a primary diagnosis, I've also been diagnosed with PTSD. I may have mentioned being a combat veteran, I'm not sure. I don't mind answering though it's not easy to talk about, but I blocked out quite a bit and didn't realize it, and therapy restored a lot of pretty difficult memories from that time. I didn't have any clue I had that disorder because I didn't have a front line combat role (although I was in the theater of operations and was shelled and shot at by tanks) and didn't think I had seen enough to give me any problems, but I had them nonetheless.

The serenity of sacrament meeting was something no other church ever gave me. It was so blessed a relief from the noise of my mind and I guess I felt what could be described as the still small voice of God. Other churches are either rackety and raucous (clapping and praising) or if they are reverent, there seemed to always be a somewhat oppressive atmosphere to the service. I really needed a serene manner of worship instead. I'm not criticizing the way others wanted to worship, but it wasn't for me. The LDS church felt right for the first time in years and I think that's what convinced me that the spirit of God filled sacrament meetings. I guess, in a way, it was therapeutic.

So that's my best answer. I'm genuinely trying to be truthful although there's one thing in therapy they stress and that is that we can not accurately diagnose ourselves. So take it for what it's worth, but I believe it to be true.

[Mad Jax]

Oddity: I try to say spirit of God and it turns it into Force of God. Even when I edit.

Wow it did it again. s.p.i.r.i.t. turns into Force.

[Mad Jax]

It was my big taste of not being important because I was a girl.

I must have missed something because I was under the impression that you were male. Not that it changes anything with regards to my respect for you, of course.

On a side note, I always worried if I became a parent I would favor the girls because I always wanted a daughter. I think I would love them all equally but it was something that had me thinking a lot.

[alas]

It was my big taste of not being important because I was a girl.

I must have missed something because I was under the impression that you were male. Not that it changes anything with regards to my respect for you, of course.

On a side note, I always worried if I became a parent I would favor the girls because I always wanted a daughter. I think I would love them all equally but it was something that had me thinking a lot.

I use that male avatar, it can be confusing. I have done the same thing with a couple of the guys who have had a female avatar ( Document, I know but still see that female avatar and have to remind myself) and I suspect that a lot of my logic and ways of expressing myself are kind of masculine. Maybe the choice of avatar says something? I am a transgender frog?

A parent can love all their children, but I don't know if it is possible not to have favorites. Some children are more affectionate, or we have more in common like our interests. My daughters are so different interest wise, it is like we have nothing in common. But my son married someone just like his mother. It is kind of funny, my favorite child is my daughter in law? What is important though is that each child feels loved and accepted for who they are. Even if you don't love them exactly the same, you love them for who they are.

Looking back on things, both of my parents kind of said that I was the one they "loved" the most. They experienced it as I was their favorite. But my dad was sexually abusive, and my mother......hard to explain. I think it is fair to say that I was the child who *gave* the most love and both my parents needed to be loved and so, what they felt was needing me to give them love. Both parents described it as they just felt more love from me. They needed me. The "love" they felt for me was kind of like a blood sucker. It is a common dynamic in families where there is incest with the oldest daughter. In fact, experts wonder if this dynamic isn't more damaging than the sexual abuse. The mother has what is called a role reversal with the oldest daughter, where she leans on the daughter for emotional support and even turns the child into "junior mother" in relationship to the other children. Things like making a girl be responsible for "baby sitting" the older brothers, having her meet the father's emotional needs that the mother is unable to meet herself. (Often because the mother is emotionally damaged as a kid, or even sick or absent) It was never love that was nurturing or for my growth. My growth and development was never celebrated like it was for my brothers. I was the emotional adult and everyone else in the family were needy children.

So, it was not just the church sexism where the boys are more important and celebrated because they are "future priesthood." But my family exaggerated the dynamic and it was on top of the neglect the girls get at church.

[SeeNoEvil]

Mad Jax, I appreciate your comments. My baptism day is not a date I ever think about so when you brought up yours it gave me a chance to reflect back to that summer day. I don't remember the exact date nor much about that day. All I have to mark that day is my baptism certificate and a faded black and white picture taken of me and the other girl who was baptized that day. We both were wearing our new white dresses with white socks and white shoes. I vaguely remember going under the water. It was no different really than all the other days we "practiced" being baptized in the back yard swimming pool except I had a dress on instead of a bathing suit. I do remember afterwards thinking I was now without sin and vowed to never sin again for the rest of my life! lol! That didn't last long. There is no way an 8 year old can fully understand what they are agreeing to nor be prepared for what is expected of you from that day on. Though I learned more about baptism in seminary I didn't fully understand what that meant until that next milestone came up... the temple. That day I do remember. How can one forget!

I am one of those ones that was BIC. I still deal with anger issues over what my family, ancestors and myself have sacrificed all in the name of this church. I often wonder why my ancestors joined the church. The more I know about the churches history and interworkings the harder I have in dealing with those harsh realities of what baptism into this church really meant for them. Hindsight always paints a clearer picture of how things should have, could have and would have been without the church. But I of course will never know how different my life or any of my ancestors life would have been had there not been baptized. At age 8 I had nothing to compare it with and up to that point had not been introduced to any other religious thought, only Mormonism. I was to young to know anything about the things that were to come because of it. I was to busy twirling around in my new white dress on that momentous baptism day to think about such things. The indoctrination started young.

[Mad Jax]

I think that generally speaking, no child gets a fair shake to understand what he or she is asked to commit to doing when it comes to early religious indoctrination. A good example outside the church is the documentary Jesus Camp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

It would be a rare religion that presented critical alternatives to its doctrines so somebody could make a fully informed choice. That goes exponential for the way it's presented to children. Religion simply isn't in the business of constantly challenging itself. I think it's fair to say that evangelicalism is not worse than Mormonism in this regard, it only appears so to me because it was the particular flavor of intolerant dogmatic force feeding that affected my life. Coming to NOM has made me see the effects of LDS teachings on those BIC as being very similar, despite my earlier belief that it was at least a better religion than what I had. Seeing that same world through a different set of eyes has been good for improving my empathy, I think.

[MerrieMiss]

Mad Jax, thanks for sharing your experience. It is really interesting to get the perspective of someone whose experience in some ways is so much the same (members of the same church) and yet different (BIC vs convert).

While I don't have any particular reason to remember the date of my baptism, I do think about my baptism every time I drive past the street where the church I was baptized is. I haven't lived in that state for years, but every couple years I drive through the city where I spent a large portion of my childhood, and go through an intersection and the church I was baptized in a a couple miles down the road. Every time I see that street sign I think about that building, my white dress, my dad, the dress I wore for the confirmation - it all comes back to me. Fortunately, I'm not there every often, although it did happen this summer.

[Mad Jax]

Appreciate all the comments. I guess it's probably different for an 8 year old and what the day means. These are things I don't think as much about as one ought.

Today is the anniversary of me receiving the Aaronic priesthood, and that has some memories to it as well. My family's backlash for rejecting their more orthodox Christianity came to the surface, which brought a lot of ugliness out TBH. It took me some time to truly forgive them (only a few but the response was absurd in some cases), but I also really appreciated the ones who respected my choice. It seems strange to me now, with no belief in any religion, that I should look at it with more amusement than anything else.