NOM

..and their fiendish master Satan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2qhcIA0lqs

And yes I know how loosely related this is to anything LDS.

Whoa, some of those are over-the-top!

My husband and I were having a discussion about makeup not too long ago. He was saying that he doesn't understand the whole makeup thing and that he thinks I look just as beautiful without makeup as I do with makeup.

That turned into a semi heated discussion about why I wear makeup because it ticked me off that he would think I wear makeup to impress someone. That's not why I wear makeup. I like how I look with makeup. I don't like how I look without makeup. I wear minimal makeup as it is because I don't like wasting time putting it on and taking it off.

It finally boiled down to an incident that happened when I was about 12. The cashier at the grocery store thought I was a boy. That was completely devastating. Yeah, I was tall & skinny & had no boobs. But, at least when I started wearing mascara, no one mistook me for a boy anymore.

It's amusing, in hindsight.

HighMaintenance wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:28 pm

That turned into a semi heated discussion about why I wear makeup because it ticked me off that he would think I wear makeup to impress someone. That's not why I wear makeup. I like how I look with makeup. I don't like how I look without makeup. I wear minimal makeup as it is because I don't like wasting time putting it on and taking it off.

What's the difference?

Jeffret wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:40 am

HighMaintenance wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:28 pm

That turned into a semi heated discussion about why I wear makeup because it ticked me off that he would think I wear makeup to impress someone. That's not why I wear makeup. I like how I look with makeup. I don't like how I look without makeup. I wear minimal makeup as it is because I don't like wasting time putting it on and taking it off.

What's the difference?

Between what?

HighMaintenance wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:29 pm

Jeffret wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:40 am

HighMaintenance wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:28 pm

That turned into a semi heated discussion about why I wear makeup because it ticked me off that he would think I wear makeup to impress someone. That's not why I wear makeup. I like how I look with makeup. I don't like how I look without makeup. I wear minimal makeup as it is because I don't like wasting time putting it on and taking it off.

What's the difference?

Between what?

I haven't been able to figure out the difference between wanting to impress people with how you look and not liking how you look without makeup. It seems like if you're concerned about how you look without makeup, or with, you're doing so because you want to impress people with how you look. I guess there might be the Narcissus angle, where he was mostly concerned with his own reflection and how he looked to himself. Otherwise, it seems like it's a matter of wanting to impress others by how you look.

Of course, there's the part I snipped about how it started with your 12 year-old self getting mistaken for a boy. Again that seems like you want to impress people by how you look, or in particular to impress your gender upon people.

I suppose one other possibility is that you're making some distinction between impressing some particular person, vs. just impressing people in general.

I'm just curious to understand these significant distinctions, when they seem to me to be saying pretty much the same thing.

I hope that doesn't come across too confusing or impertinent.

I can't speak for her, but I think there's something of a parallel that might mirror what she's talking about to some degree.

One thing that always bothered me was a spontaneous criticism from people (usually women but not always), who felt they needed to tell me that the "roided up muscle look" really wasn't that attractive. And by "bothered" I mean it really got on my nerves. The idea that I might be working out for my own benefit seemed foreign.

Being in good shape and looking healthy gives a person a lot of confidence. I imagine the same is true of the way make up makes someone look. I suppose one could argue that it's rooted in people's reaction to you, but in the case of being in good shape, it's primarily a confidence issue.

That makes some sense to me, Mad Jax, though it still seems to me that the situations are a bit different. The exercise results in different body structure and a greater capability to accomplish some things. It gives a different feel to oneself as you move around. I think that makeup just changes the way one looks, primarily to others. I feel better when I'm fit, as there are direct changes to myself and how I feel. With makeup, I think it's more about what others see and trying to impress them.

Now, I'm certainly not saying that it's wrong to work to impress others. Certainly we all do that in a number of different ways. I'm just curious about that distinction in this case.

Perhaps a big portion of it comes down to what you mentioned, that it has a lot to do with confidence. Many times that sort of thing isn't really rational at all. It's about how we feel.

Sometimes makeup can beneficial, with its slimming and age hiding effects.

I like to play with makeup for a couple reasons. One, being fairly blonde, my eyebrows and eyelashes don't show up, and I don't want to look like a cancer patient. Not looking like a cancer patient makes me feel more confident. I suppose I'm trying to manipulate how people perceive me.

However, I mostly do it because it's fun, it's creative. It allows me to express myself in different ways. That is for me, not for anyone else.

The make up thing is woven into our evolution. You see this in the animal kingdom everywhere; males and females trying to make them selves look more attractive, in whatever the attractant is, to be the dominant one and get to have sex. Even though it's probably essential for our species to overcome and evolve past tribalism and much of our evolutionary past in order to survive in our modern society, I don't see this dress-up makeup thing discontinuing anytime soon. I do feel bad that the burden of attractiveness has been put on the females and the capitalism that feeds on it drives our society to spend so much of it's resources on it. The effort by religions to call it evil, be it removing makeup or putting on a total body covering, is just male dominance BS.

I'm not opposed to makeup in any general sense. There are lots of different facets involved in makeup. As RubinHighlander notes, it's just one aspect of body decoration, of which there is a long and varied history. I was just intrigued by HighMaintenance's semi-heated discussion over a distinction I couldn't quite grasp.

Personally I'm in favor of a more natural look. I'm not a big fan of dressing up, or clothes at all for that matter. My wife wears makeup for special occasions but not as a general rule and I kind of prefer her without it. I don't have a problem with female body hair, in some aspects I kind of like it. Oddly, I guess my preference is no makeup, followed by light, minimal makeup, but I also kind of like bold, brash makeup that really makes a statement. Kind of a contradiction. But in general, I really don't care how anyone wants to wear makeup and don't think it's any of my business to have an opinion.

And in the only instance where I think I actually do have a valid opinion -- I'm not likely to start wearing it any time soon.

The discussion became semi-heated only because DH kept insisting that I wear makeup to impress other people (because somehow a little powder, blush, eyeliner and mascara is impressive ). It annoyed me that no matter how many times or ways I said, "No, really, at this point in my life I truly don't care how other people see me, I like to be happy with me." It's just that simple.

So, it is really similar to what Mad Jax said. Being in good shape and healthy isn't necessarily about how you look to other people, it's how you feel about yourself.

Jeffret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:01 pm

And in the only instance where I think I actually do have a valid opinion -- I'm not likely to start wearing it any time soon.

So you won't be joining me on my NOM inspired KISS cover band tour?

Edit: Duplicate

Mad Jax wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:07 pm

Jeffret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:01 pm

And in the only instance where I think I actually do have a valid opinion -- I'm not likely to start wearing it any time soon.

So you won't be joining me on my NOM inspired KISS cover band tour?

That's actually one of the examples that came to mind when I wrote "bold and brash". Though you definitely wouldn't want me in your KISS cover band.

HighMaintenance wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:04 pm

The discussion became semi-heated only because DH kept insisting that I wear makeup to impress other people (because somehow a little powder, blush, eyeliner and mascara is impressive ). It annoyed me that no matter how many times or ways I said, "No, really, at this point in my life I truly don't care how other people see me, I like to be happy with me." It's just that simple.

So, it is really similar to what Mad Jax said. Being in good shape and healthy isn't necessarily about how you look to other people, it's how you feel about yourself.

Thanks for explaining!

Jeffret, by chance are you on the Aspergers spectrum at some level? Sometimes your follow up questioning of certain posts seems like that could be the case. Very detailed in seeking to understand certain nuances and specifics. I don't mean this question to be derogatory in any way, quite the opposite actually, as I have family with Aspergers.

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:43 pm

Jeffret, by chance are you on the Aspergers spectrum at some level? Sometimes your follow up questioning of certain posts seems like that could be the case. Very detailed in seeking to understand certain nuances and specifics. I don't mean this question to be derogatory in any way, quite the opposite actually, as I have family with Aspergers.

Nah, at least not at any sort of diagnosable level. I can be pretty obsessive at times though. And very precise, particular when a topic intrigues me. Sometimes I really like to understand something in depth and tease out the details. And when I have time (as I had more of when I was between jobs) I can write and respond a lot.

(I recognized that this particular inquiry really didn't evolve the way I intended.)