NOM

After reading about this incident yesterday I just can't get over it.
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/06/05/ ... -festival/

I didn't attend the gay pride event last weekend in SLC, but I work across the street from there. If my gay daughter had been in town I might have attended it with her. What bothers me is just knowing there's a dozen or more young white clean cut typical Utah teens that actually organized into a group to go into the city and threaten physical harm to the gay men attending the event. I'm really dissapointed there's no video footage of the incident with all the tech in people's hands. I'd really like to see those boys brought to justice and know the back history of their upbringing that led them to think they could go and do something like that. I'm not going to make any judgments or assumptions here about their backgrounds, but growing up active LDS at that age I can say I had some gay biases of my own, directly perputuated by the LDS/christian dogma. But it was never enough to want to hurt people!

Same here with regard to biases. I would never have physically attacked someone though. Nowadays, I sometimes hope I'm in a position to do some good. Whether that's shutting someone down when they're verbally attacking someone or getting involved in a physical confrontation.

I don't particularly enjoy conflict, haven't been in a fist fight since high school, but I do feel like I've got a lot to make up for.

Blashyrkh wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:12 pm

I know I will get attacked for this but here goes. I for one am sick and tired of all of this "pride" nonsense. My daughter was never popular with the boys. She is shy and a bit socially awkward but she always liked boys. Until she met another girl who took interest in her. Now, my daughter claims to be "bisexual." To me it is the same as an adult who grooms a child in order to abuse them. I will admit it. I dislike homosexuality. It has nothing to do with the LDS Church. I don't understand how if you dislike the church you automatically have to dislike everything that the church believes.

As someone who was groomed as a child by an adult, I would have to disagree. But that's not the point of the OP. You can dislike Pride events and homosexuality all you want, but it's never okay to threaten another person's life because you disagree with their lifestyle and the people who did that were wrong and are scum.

Blashyrkh wrote:My daughter was never popular with the boys. She is shy and a bit socially awkward but she always liked boys. Until she met another girl who took interest in her. Now, my daughter claims to be "bisexual." To me it is the same as an adult who grooms a child in order to abuse them. I will admit it. I dislike homosexuality.

I feel sorry for your daughter. I hope she has some people in her life who support and accept her.

Its really quite the evocative story. The gays leaving Pride being chased by a mob of clean-cut young men. The young man, employee at the store, standing at the doorway, barring entrance, getting pummeled and fighting for himself and others. And then the mob fleeing once they find their targets aren't as easy as they expected and people aren't going to just stand around and let them attack people.

In some ways it's kind of a surprising story. While we don't know the identity of the attackers they're described in pretty Mormonish terms. Most of the time Mormons are accustomed to taking orders and not forming a mob and taking matters into their own hands. On the other hand the church's anti-gay rhetoric is strong and harsh.

One of the compelling parts of this story is how it provides a hero. Even many people who are not comfortable with LGBT people and ideas aren't comfortable with a mob beating them up and recognize the hero on the story.

Blashyrkh wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:12 pm

I know I will get attacked for this but here goes. I for one am sick and tired of all of this "pride" nonsense. My daughter was never popular with the boys. She is shy and a bit socially awkward but she always liked boys. Until she met another girl who took interest in her. Now, my daughter claims to be "bisexual." To me it is the same as an adult who grooms a child in order to abuse them. I will admit it. I dislike homosexuality. It has nothing to do with the LDS Church. I don't understand how if you dislike the church you automatically have to dislike everything that the church believes.

My daughter thought she liked boys, until she married one and knew something was "off". Then she was paid some attention from a woman and for a while she and this other woman and her husband had a threesome. That didn't last. Now my daughter is happily married to another woman.

See, in our culture girls are raised to ASSUME they like boys. Even worse than boys are raised to assume they like girls. And what turns a woman on is less obvious than what turns a guy on, so it is really really common for lesbians not to recognize that they are MORE attracted to women than they are to men. They are still lesbian, just slow to getting around to figuring it out.

Your daughter may be bi, and she may be lesbian and it has nothing to do with grooming and everything to do with how their brain is wired. From birth, their brain seems to be wired to be attracted to the same sex, just like yours is wired to be attracted to a different sex. If you graph it on a bell curve, it turns out to be a lopsided bimodal curve. In other words, toward the heterosexual side there is a hump, then it slopes down in the middle, then has a smaller hump toward the homosexual side. But there are people in the middle who are attracted to both. My daughter feels some attraction to men, but not enough to want to share a life. And the problems of depression and can't keep a job that she divorced her husband over, are not enough in her wife because she loves the wife far more than she loved the husband and will tolerate more problems and it s still worth remaining married.

So, my advice is to get yourself educated on LGBT issues, so your misunderstanding and lack of acceptance for what you don't understand doesn't destroy your relationship with your daughter.

It sent a matter of automatically likening things that the church dislikes. It is a matter of getting educated on a subject and past the prejudice the church taught you.

Blashyrkh wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:12 pm

I know I will get attacked for this but here goes. I for one am sick and tired of all of this "pride" nonsense. My daughter was never popular with the boys. She is shy and a bit socially awkward but she always liked boys. Until she met another girl who took interest in her. Now, my daughter claims to be "bisexual." To me it is the same as an adult who grooms a child in order to abuse them. I will admit it. I dislike homosexuality. It has nothing to do with the LDS Church. I don't understand how if you dislike the church you automatically have to dislike everything that the church believes.

I really do understand where you are coming from. This is an Onion article and is entirely satire:

Gay-Pride Parade Sets Mainstream Acceptance Of Gays Back 50 Years

I have a Lesbian daughter and we both think this article is hilarious as well as far too accurate. I'm not sure what the solution would actually be, but pride parades and opposition or indifference to them is how the transition is going so far.

Here's any excellent article describing why Pride is important and necessary: It’s Pride Month—And This Is Why We Need it

Corsair wrote: I really do understand where you are coming from. This is an Onion article and is entirely satire:

Gay-Pride Parade Sets Mainstream Acceptance Of Gays Back 50 Years

I have a Lesbian daughter and we both think this article is hilarious as well as far too accurate. I'm not sure what the solution would actually be, but pride parades and opposition or indifference to them is how the transition is going so far.

I don't live in the Salt Lake area, so I haven't attended Utah Pride. The few gay marches or supporting events I have attended have been nothing like what is described in The Onion article. Is Utah Pride pretty similar to that?

Jeffret wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:40 am

I don't live in the Salt Lake area, so I haven't attended Utah Pride. The few gay marches or supporting events I have attended have been nothing like what is described in The Onion article. Is Utah Pride pretty similar to that?

I have no idea either. I don't live in Utah and have never attended a Pride event. The satire in this article is likely way over the top.

What The Onion article describes sounds more like the Folsom Street Fair (NSFW) than the typical Gay Pride Parade. These days Folsom is probably more straight than gay. Or Burning Man, which isn't particularly gay.

Blashyrkh wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:12 pm

I know I will get attacked for this but here goes. I for one am sick and tired of all of this "pride" nonsense. My daughter was never popular with the boys. She is shy and a bit socially awkward but she always liked boys. Until she met another girl who took interest in her. Now, my daughter claims to be "bisexual." To me it is the same as an adult who grooms a child in order to abuse them. I will admit it. I dislike homosexuality. It has nothing to do with the LDS Church. I don't understand how if you dislike the church you automatically have to dislike everything that the church believes.

It's really not about liking things just because the church doesn't or supporting them because the church opposes them. For me it was getting to know people that are LGBTQ+ and recognizing they have the same inherent value that everyone else does. It took a realization that if someone is happy loving someone, I shouldn't stand in opposition to it - regardless of whether their genitals look similar or not.

I started to ask myself which side I would rather be on: that which discriminates against people based on who they love or that which recognizes that their lifestyle really doesn't diminish my own life.

Blashyrkh wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:04 am

Let me clarify my position here. I love my daughter and have always supported her. Goodness, I spent nearly 40k for her college not to mention buying her a car to drive. I like her girlfriend. I like her girlfriend more than my step-daughter. When my wife and I declined to attend the "pride" festival my SD became fascist towards us. She changed the screensaver on our home computer (she doesnt even live with us) to a gay themed screen. She bought soap that said "its ok to be gay" and put it in all of our bathrooms and even put a rainbow pride sticker on my trucks bumper. Thats where I have a problem. She demands that we accept her and tolerate how she lives yet she refuses to tolerate our personal beliefs on the subject. What I cannot tolerate is the militant homosexual stance. I dont force nor demand anyone to accept of follow my morals and neither should they.

I get where you're coming from, she should not be vandalizing your property. That's wrong, and there's no way around that. It sounds like she's feeling rejected by you because of your refusal to attend. I don't know your personal interactions with her of course, so I can only make assumptions. But have you told her you love and support her no matter what? If your love language is gift-giving (as evidenced by the money spent on college and a car) but her love language is something else (especially if it's words of affirmation) then she simply isn't interpreting what you've done for her the same way you are. She can be grateful for the financial support, but still feel that you don't support her as a person.

It sounds like she needs to know you love her no matter what. Not that you disapprove of her lifestyle, just that you love her. Whether or not you disapprove is up to you, but she doesn't need to hear about it. Think about how it feels when people bear testimony to you about the truthfulness of the church and invite you back.

If you haven't read Chapman's book on love languages, I highly recommend it. I thought it was all bullshit, but having gone through a workshop that used it I came out with a different understanding.

Blashyrkh wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:12 pm

I know I will get attacked for this but here goes. I for one am sick and tired of all of this "pride" nonsense. My daughter was never popular with the boys. She is shy and a bit socially awkward but she always liked boys. Until she met another girl who took interest in her. Now, my daughter claims to be "bisexual." To me it is the same as an adult who grooms a child in order to abuse them. I will admit it. I dislike homosexuality. It has nothing to do with the LDS Church. I don't understand how if you dislike the church you automatically have to dislike everything that the church believes.

I get it. When I was still attending church, but starting my faith crises/transition, I found out from my oldest DD that my middle DD was gay. Middle DD came out when she moved out of state to go to college; she had not said anything to me yet, but eventually she started hinting on the topic when Utah was fighting the higher court on the gay marriage initiative. I've never considered myself outwardly anti-gay, even when I was a TBM, but I did have that bias. It faded over the years as I got older because I knew gay people and all of them helped prove to me there was no evil there, in spite of the COB's narrative. So when DD asked me what I thought about the gay marriage initiative in Utah I told her this: I don't understand what it's like to be gay, but I don't agree with discrimination against their rights as long as it's not removing or infringing on anyone else freedoms and rights. I told her that if my bishop or church leaders asked to told me I needed to vote or support legislation against the gay marriage initiative I would refuse to do so. But I would not go and march in a gay parade.

She seemed grateful for that stance. We've since talked in more details about how hard it must have been when she was in her younger teen years, trying to date boys and go to church. It explained a lot of her behavioral issues an struggles at that age. DD and her partner are fun to be with and there's no weirdness. It's made me so happy to see DD so happy; they really are a lovely couple people and I couldn't ask for a better partner for her!

I get the events gay people want to have to celebrate, but I do hope in the near future we don't have to celebrate differences in that manner because of the bigotry of the past. This is the problem we've caused with our bigotry and suppression of selected groups in our societies; they want society to pay for their past sins and make some restitution. I should not generalize and use the word "they", I should say "some". I think there are many people of suppressed races and or gay people who just want to live their lives and they do not want to throw it in the face of their former oppressors.

Next time I get together with DD I'm going to ask her if she would have gone to the gay pride festival here in Utah if they had been here. I have a feeling the two of them would rather spend the time getting out to a national park or have me take them rock climbing like we did when they were here a couple of months ago.

I'm very grateful all this is a non-issue now and I'm not in a situation where I have to deal with the cogdis of the LDS dogma vs accepting my DD for who she is.

I have hesitated to say this because I don't like to speak for my daughter and can't remember exactly how she said this. But she and her wife are also against the militant, in your face politics of some of the movement. She said she was not involved politically and didn't want to because of the way some gays think it is funny to offend straights. I got the idea that she doesn't think being purposely offensive is the best way to gain approval and support. But, no she won't go to pride parades.

I am hoping young Terrance Mannery receives some community service award for standing up to that enraged mob.

Those young Elders should have been home getting a good night sleep before priesthood meeting the next day instead of having a physical confrontation with parade goers. Lay off the sticks and stones and simply bear the words of your testimony if you need to display intolerance.

moksha wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:27 am

I am hoping young Terrance Mannery receives some community service award for standing up to that enraged mob.

He is so awesome! I hope his restaurant gets lots of business for a long, long time.

MoPag wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:18 am

moksha wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:27 am

I am hoping young Terrance Mannery receives some community service award for standing up to that enraged mob.

He is so awesome! I hope his restaurant gets lots of business for a long, long time.

That shop is just up the street from where I work. I've made it a point to go up there next week.

Blashyrkh wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:04 am

Let me clarify my position here. I love my daughter and have always supported her. Goodness, I spent nearly 40k for her college not to mention buying her a car to drive. I like her girlfriend. I like her girlfriend more than my step-daughter. When my wife and I declined to attend the "pride" festival my SD became fascist towards us. She changed the screensaver on our home computer (she doesnt even live with us) to a gay themed screen. She bought soap that said "its ok to be gay" and put it in all of our bathrooms and even put a rainbow pride sticker on my trucks bumper. Thats where I have a problem. She demands that we accept her and tolerate how she lives yet she refuses to tolerate our personal beliefs on the subject. What I cannot tolerate is the militant homosexual stance. I dont force nor demand anyone to accept of follow my morals and neither should they.

This sounds like more of a respect issue or relationship issue than anything to do with her being gay. Seems she is just using it to send a message.
What she did was disrespectful and that’s what I’d discuss with her. Let her know you have no problem with her being gay or bi, and just want her to be happy. BUT you do have a problem with the over-stepping and personal invasion in your home.

Blashyrkh wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:04 am

She even put a rainbow pride sticker on my trucks bumper.

She subjected your truck to possible scorn, ridicule, and rejection in your ward parking lot!