Ayahuasca. Thoughts?

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Arcturus
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Ayahuasca. Thoughts?

Post by Arcturus » Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:57 am

Hello NOM folks - Wondering if anyone here knows a good deal or has personally experienced Ayahuasca. Been listening to the Joe Rogan podcast and he gets on the topic of this "herb" in an interview with Graham Hancock, and it sounds interesting.

I'm particularly interested if anyone here has used it and what the experience was like. As a disclaimer, I do not use substances but am fascinated with what appears to be a trend of reasonably intelligent people finding great benefit from using psychedelics responsibly.

Cheers!
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
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RubinHighlander
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Re: Ayahuasca. Thoughts?

Post by RubinHighlander » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:59 am

It's on my bucket list. There are other great psychedelics to look into that might be more readily available and more user friendly. I'd recommend starting with the "fun guys". Micro doses of 1G or less provide heightened brain activity with mellow euphoria and are proving to help people with depression, anxiety and other issues and getting off pharma meds. Higher doses will start to open up amazing experiences in the subconscious. A good book is "How to Change Your Mind" by Pollan. A great series on Netflix to watch that covers all the different types is Hamilton's Pharmacopia.
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Arcturus
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Re: Ayahuasca. Thoughts?

Post by Arcturus » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:25 pm

RubinHighlander wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:59 am
It's on my bucket list. There are other great psychedelics to look into that might be more readily available and more user friendly. I'd recommend starting with the "fun guys". Micro doses of 1G or less provide heightened brain activity with mellow euphoria and are proving to help people with depression, anxiety and other issues and getting off pharma meds. Higher doses will start to open up amazing experiences in the subconscious. A good book is "How to Change Your Mind" by Pollan. A great series on Netflix to watch that covers all the different types is Hamilton's Pharmacopia.
Thank you RubinHighlander! I’ll check out that Pollan book and the Netflix documentary.
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
D Brisbin

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Hagoth
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Re: Ayahuasca. Thoughts?

Post by Hagoth » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:35 pm

Arcturus wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:25 pm
Thank you RubinHighlander! I’ll check out that Pollan book and the Netflix documentary.
I can't recommend the Pollan book highly enough. It is changing the world in its own way. The obvious therapeutic value of psychedelics is so far beyond the Nixon era propaganda that that people are starting realize that we are on the verge of the next revolution in mental health. Just last year the FDA classified psilocybin a "breaktrough therapy," at a time when the pharmaceutical companies have been trying for 3 decades to come up with something that tests better than placebo.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: Ayahuasca. Thoughts?

Post by moksha » Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:29 am

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6182612/

Conclusion
It is concluded that ayahuasca produces sub-acute and long-term improvements in affect and cognitive thinking style in non-pathological users. These data highlight the therapeutic potential of ayahuasca in the treatment of mental health disorders, such as depression.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Hagoth
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Re: Ayahuasca. Thoughts?

Post by Hagoth » Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:12 pm

I have not experienced ayahuasca, but my son has. He said that beyond the visionary psychedelic effects it was a harsh and honest teacher that made him see his character faults and showed him the mistakes he had made in his relationships with others. He said that it was the opposite of intoxication, as if his brain was operating at "300 times normal speed."
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Arcturus
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Re: Ayahuasca. Thoughts?

Post by Arcturus » Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:57 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:12 pm
I have not experienced ayahuasca, but my son has. He said that beyond the visionary psychedelic effects it was a harsh and honest teacher that made him see his character faults and showed him the mistakes he had made in his relationships with others. He said that it was the opposite of intoxication, as if his brain was operating at "300 times normal speed."
Interesting. May I ask, what prompted your son to consider it? Did he use it in the USA? And has it been / was it an overall good experience for him?
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
D Brisbin

Reuben
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Re: Ayahuasca. Thoughts?

Post by Reuben » Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:09 pm

It looks hard to pronounce. That's my only thought.

Is it eye-ah-wa-ska?

Okay, another thought. I've been interested in psychedelics for a while now, especially since they've been the subject of research for treatment-resistant depression. (I don't have that; it's just an interesting treatment angle.) I wonder if we've lost a good way to connect spiritually by setting certain mind-altering substances aside in western cultures.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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Hagoth
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Re: Ayahuasca. Thoughts?

Post by Hagoth » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:35 pm

Reuben wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:09 pm
I wonder if we've lost a good way to connect spiritually by setting certain mind-altering substances aside in western cultures.
No question about that. All indications are that these substances were essential elements of ancient religions everywhere.The amazing thing about psychedelics is that the molecule is very simple. Its is like a key that opens doors to things that are going on inside your head that you are not able to connect with when your ego is running the show. People come away with new insights and ideas. That information isn't coded into the molecule, so it's gotta be coming either from your brain or from outside. And much of it is spiritual.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: Ayahuasca. Thoughts?

Post by Hagoth » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:42 pm

Arcturus wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:57 pm


Interesting. May I ask, what prompted your son to consider it? Did he use it in the USA? And has it been / was it an overall good experience for him?
If you live in large coastal cities in the US you can find a shaman without the need to travel to the Amazon. There is also a religion where it is permitted as a sacrament (I can't remember the name off the top of my head).

Without getting into personal details, my son did it for therapeutic reasons, not just recreation. He has been greatly benefitted.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: Ayahuasca. Thoughts?

Post by moksha » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:01 pm

60 Minutes had a segment on the benefits of psilocybin tonight. Covered cures from cigarette smoking, anxiety, and alcohol addiction. Left me wondering what effect it would have on Mormonism.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Hagoth
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Re: Ayahuasca. Thoughts?

Post by Hagoth » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:39 am

moksha wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:01 pm
60 Minutes had a segment on the benefits of psilocybin tonight. Covered cures from cigarette smoking, anxiety, and alcohol addiction. Left me wondering what effect it would have on Mormonism.
Not that I would know ( ;) but one of the main effects is to give you the perspective to see through authoritarian bullsh!t. That's why psychedelics were seen as such a huge threat by people like Nixon.

After watching that 60 Minutes episode or reading Pollan's book it's kind of minboggling that these substances could still be classified as schedule 1 drugs along with heroine and cocaine. To qualify as schedule 1, a substance must be addictive, physically dangerous (i.e. can cause deadly overdoses), and have no medical benefits. Psychedelics are pretty much the opposite of this description. They are completely non-addictive. You couldn't become addicted if you tried because if you use them too often they lose their effect. They are about as poisonous as milk; zero deaths have been attributed to psychedelics (unless you consider maybe walking out into traffic or something, but that never happens with alcohol, right?). Both psilocybin and MDHD have been labeled breakthrough therapies by the FDA and are currently being used in controlled studies to treat depression, anxiety, addiction, and PTSD with great success. I have seen huge improvements in people I know personally. One was able to get off antidepressants and another described a single experience as "$10,000 worth of therapy." These are people who desperately wish they could be treated by a trained professional, but have had no option but to go it on their own. I'm not saying that psychedelics should be entirely declassified, but given the obvious therapeutic possibilities compared to the pharmaceutical industry's inability to make any traction on mental illness for many decades, it only makes sense that they should be decriminalized for properly licensed therapists. I predict that will happen over the next decade.

By the way, alcohol fits all of the requirements for a Schedule 1 drug.

One of the legal hang-ups is that the Nixon administration passed a law that makes it illegal for any federal employee to even suggest that there are positive applications for Schedule 1 substances. In a recent hearing about cannabis legalization, a director of the FDA (can't remember the name, sorry) had to take the fifth when asked if cannabis is less dangerous than alcohol. The benefits must become so obvious your average congressman will have to admit that LSD is a good thing, so it may take a while. But at least they are authorizing studies again.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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MoPag
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Re: Ayahuasca. Thoughts?

Post by MoPag » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:23 am

I've never worked with it, but I know people who have. According to my friends who have done it, it's not something you can just do. It takes weeks of mental and physical preparation and diet modification if you want the best results. I would like to try it some day too.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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moksha
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Re: Ayahuasca. Thoughts?

Post by moksha » Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:10 am

MoPag wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:23 am
It takes weeks of mental and physical preparation and diet modification if you want the best results.
Self-affirmations, Pad Thai, baklava, tracing figure eights with your mouse, and a lot of Diet Coke.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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