Keeping up with Trump

[SaidNobody]

... regardless of which knucklehead ends up in the oval office on Jan 21.

Are you acquiescing to the proposed Trump coup on January 6, 2021?

Trump coup?? Oh, geez! Now I ve got a high blood pressure nose bleed!

He is the president.
He is in the office.
He won the election.

[Hagoth]

He is the president.

Check.

He is in the office.

Check.

He won the election.

[SaidNobody]

He is the president.

Check.

He is in the office.

Check.

He won the election.

That is pure poetry and I cannot even come up with a rebuttal.

LMAO

[moksha]

Another fun Randy Rainbow song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT5kafhG3Qw

[Hagoth]

SaidNobody,

I'm sure you are as sick and tired of hearing this as I am of asking it, but I would like to ask you a question that I have asked here several times but I don't feel like I've really gotten an answer, or that I haven't been patient enough to understand it. I am not asking this for the purposes of arguing or attacking you personally in any way. I'm really just hoping you can shine some light on something that I must be overlooking. I only ask you because I can't find a good answer anywhere. I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record, but here we go...

Trump supporters keep talking about the vast sea of evidence that proves the election was stolen. You have often repeated lists of those claims. They are easy to find on alt-Right media and discussion forums, so I am not looking for another repetition of the list, I am just looking for a simple, general answer.

In over 60 legal cases Trump's team has failed to present any evidence that the (mostly Republican and often Trump-appointed) judges have found to have any merit. They are joined by the Justice Department and the Supreme Court in this summation. I realize that some cases were not heard because they were presented too late, so we can count those as null.

Trump supporters claim they never got their day in court but Trump's legal team has withdrawn from important cases rather than present their evidence. When, as I have pointed out before, the Republican judge in Michigan insisted on a full day of presentation he found their claims to be entirely without merit. Many of Trump's lawyers jumped ship rather than going to court for him. Now one of them is saying he withdrew because he was being asked to do "repugnant and illegal" things.

Republican-led investigations of irregularities have determined that some are purely fiction and some are real but are too small to be consequential, and sometimes working in favor of Trump, rather than Biden.

I'm not even asking for your personal opinion here, I would just like to know how people are explaining this wide chasm between the evidence claimed by Trump-leaning media & internet forums and what actually gets reviewed by the courts and officials. I am genuinely and sincerely puzzled.

Thanks for considering this and I hope you can help me out. I promise I will do my best to listen with an open mind.

ETA: sorry if you answered this and I missed it. I often skip several days of discussion when I'm really busy.

[SaidNobody]

SaidNobody,

I'm sure you are as sick and tired of hearing this as I am of asking it,

Not at all. There are many people like you you have the genuine interest in the truth.

But let me provide a little background for myself. I have spent about the last 15 years arguing with a doctor of English and honored member of the Sons of Africa about race relations here in America. Even though we had an immense respect for each other and our own ways, we never could convince to the other that we were right. And I wasn't even really trying to prove that I was right but rather that I wasn't wrong. He would attack anything that was pro Trump in the end. Which included me and I was okay with that. When he attacked Ben Carson I gave him an ultimatum and he didn't pass. We are now not talking.

About the election, we all have sources that we consider trustworthy get our information. Neither you or I have seen any of the physical evidence. So I do not try to defend or validate the evidence in most of the court cases.

Imagine, as I did once, you left $100 in the ashtray of your old truck. There are two or three people outside about and you know them all. You go inside for a little while and when you come back $100 is gone. You don't have very much evidence of anything. You start to wonder who would have done it. So let us establish that neither party trust the other. When Trump won back in 2016 the instant solution to that strange happening was that Trump cheated.

After years of investigations nothing was found. So then they came up with a whistleblower that never actually came out and testified. They twisted everything to the best of their ability with all of the hatred in their heart to try and convict him of something. This did not help the trust issue.

The hate and effort to move Trump was great. While I might not have seemed like it to you, I knew people like Adam shift were lying. When someone like that is on your team you sort of block those things out of your mind. But when someone like that is against your team your senses are hiding to it. If he would lie in front of the nation about the nature of a phone call, and everyone jumped on board with it, what else would he be willing to do?

Again, back to the trust issue, there hasn't been much for a long time. As a member of one of the party committees I know that there is a heightened sense of integrity with them. They might hate as passionate me as anyone but they know that being caught in a mistake could label the entire team in poor light.

After the 2016 election there was evidence of fraud. But it was easy to explain away. Even though Trump won more than 75% of the counties in the nation, Hillary still good the popular vote by seemingly large margins. 3 + millions and actually a lot. But Hillary barely even campaigned. No this isn't documented in mainstream media, insiders had the impression that she was told just to sit back and do the bare minimum and that they had it covered.

Hollywood, Big Tech, in the media were all in on it. You could literally test the search engines of Google to compare the results you got when you searched Clinton or Trump. Stories about Clinton disappeared. Stories about Trump multiplied like rats in a basement. I will use Google for political research anymore. Media had labeled her chances of winning at 98%. Which is sort of the same as saying 100%, but let's just put that in there in case we're wrong.

Again, we are looking at the integrity issue. This isn't about you particularly. I believe most Republicans and Democrats are good people. I was an independent up until 2 years ago.

When the primary started, we all watched with great interest. Kamala Harris was one of the first to get kicked off the team. She really wasn't that likable by any of them. Tulsi Gabbard was the only one with irrational plan, socialistic as it was, and she got one of the lowest ratings as well. She even got called out as being a Russian asset by Hillary.

Watching the primaries, we saw crazy things. Every candidate was going to give illegal aliens Medicare. Some we're going to tear down the wall that was becoming our new border defense against human trafficking and drug trafficking. This wasn't about Mexico. Mexicans are almost as American as we are. We've had a great relationship hundreds of years. Workers would cross the border without hassle. As countries such as a Venezuela degraded the human trafficking became a major issue. And America had decided that giving them benefits was now our new responsibility.

What we saw was candidates willing to do anything to prove that they were radical. When it came to the final stages of the election Bernie Sanders was once again in the lead. He would have and should have won the Democratic nomination. Mysterious problems in Ohio delayed their report. That report has historically given Democrats their direction.

Once again, it was easy to see that the DNC had cheated Bernie and picked the person that they wanted. From an outsiders point of view it was orchestrated almost too well. We were calling the shots before they happened.

Suddenly be pandemic breaks out. This was confusing because leaders on both sides did not seem to know what to do. In Pennsylvania, in October 2019 they passed a law that allowed mail in balance without excuses. Later in the year of 2020 they played this off as a reason to help voting during a pandemic. How did they know there was going to be a pandemic in October 2019?

However, even so, this law violated the Pennsylvania Constitution. They signed it off as a law but it isn't valid because it violates the Constitution. But the governor pushed it through with quite a bit of pressure. Then the attorney general began changing laws months in advance for election day. Holding the election open longer. Removing the signature validation requirement. A week before the election someone broke into a warehouse in Philadelphia and still computers that had the encryption key for the voting system.

Nearly every one of us sat down sighed. We knew I was coming next. And so when the election day came Republican poll watchers were kicked out of some of the poll counting stations in Philadelphia. Our attorney general actually bragged about making these laws in advance.

So right off the bat, perhaps before the election even started, many of us stealed our feelings because we knew there would be something like this. We knew that as we went to bed Trump would be winning and then sometime in the middle of the night he would start to lose. We didn't even lose sleep over it, At least I did. I knew I would wake up and find out that we had lost somewhere in the night.

Many of us had the same type of reaction. We would talk about it when we met. We will do the best we can and hope it doesn't get installed from us.

Back to where we started. I don't have access to the actual evidence. I have heard probably a hundred testimonials a poll watchers. I have seen the video of Georgia pulling out balance and counting them while everyone else was out of the building because of a water main break. (No that has not been debunked)

You can look at the graphs as the votes came in. At about 3:00 in the morning Joe Biden got a massive bump. You can see it right on the graph. We would call it an anomaly and statistics. Everything had a fairly smooth curve and then boom millions of votes only for Biden. Depending on the source, Trump won at least 16 of 17 bellwether counties. These are counties in the United States that have picked the right president every time in the last 30 years minus maybe one.

The bellwether counties voted for Obama and for Bush and for the Clinton and for Reagan. And in 2016 they voted for Donald Trump. In 2020 they voted for Donald Trump again, but this time the media explained that because of their racism they broke the system. They were now too white to be correct.

Donald Trump won 83% counties of the United States. Joe Biden won 17%. Donald Trump got about 74 million votes, and Joe Biden got 80 million votes. Donald Trump left people standing outside of his rallies by the tens of thousands. Joe Biden couldn't fill the high school gym. It is well documented that perhaps the most powerful element of any election is the enthusiasm. Enthusiasm will even overcome voter block sizes. Joe Biden was not the favorite person for a lot of Democrats. I know that there is a vote blue no matter who policy. But not everyone follows it.

So after all of that, we will try to sum this up. We have a powerful reason to suspect that the election was stolen. We have a lot of testimony of people who saw the fraud. We wanted to audit the machines to see if our claims were true. We were blocked at nearly every angle. Because this only happened in Democratic cities. The same machines might have been used in salt lake or Phoenix but those weren't the problem cities. It was places like Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Atlanta. Machines were wiped and computers have disappeared. They will not let us see.

There has been one case I think in Wisconsin where we did get to access the machines. They showed that we were right. Votes going into the machine were counted at about 0.7 for Trump and 1.3 for Biden. The same algorithm has been used in Georgia for the Senate runoff races, according to my sources.

There is a real evidence. There is a lot more going on in a simple lawsuit. Many of us cannot tell if these rejected cases was done for the benefit of truth or to suppress.

What has happened in the last 2 months and especially in the last few days is what we consider a major crime syndicant has been hanging themselves quietly with rope allowed them. In the last few days they have rushed to impeach Donald Trump. There is a reason they are terrified and it isn't just self-righteousness trying to get rid of a dangerous character.

So the bottom line is is if I can't show you why I am confident there was fraud. Because it takes months of observation of the behavior that came before the election. This wasn't a "oh wow there was a fraud." Traps were set. Or at least I think so. For a while I couldn't believe we let them simply get away with it. And now it seems that maybe we didn't. But only the next few days will tell.

[Hagoth]

Very interesting. Thank you. So why do you think Trump's legal team was so ineffectual? Do you think it's just that they didn't have enough time to put together their case, or were the Judges and officers somehow manipulated by Democrats?

[SaidNobody]

Very interesting. Thank you. So why do you think Trump's legal team was so ineffectual? Do you think it's just that they didn't have enough time to put together their case, or were the Judges and officers somehow manipulated by Democrats?

There are millions of possibilities, and I have pondered maybe a few hundred of them. Obviously, if this is anywhere near what I am claiming that it is, it is a massive conspiracy and effort to steal America. And that is at the very least.

I am not a smart man, but even this stuff looks stupid as hell to me. I believe that people in power generally know how to keep it. And I have wondered for years why presidents come into the office and quietly leave. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Am I to believe that these presidents are simply good people and lay down the mantle of power and never look back? There is a projection of that image to some degree. Sometimes, George Bush senior looked so stupid that I wondered how he could have held the office at all. Clinton was smart, but he was so childish and undisciplined that once again I wondered how.

Obama seemed so noble. He seemed like he was going to lay down the mantle of power without a whisper of regret. Until Donald Trump won. That dude came out of the closet faster than any other president.

That is when I began to suspect an alliance or a ring of thieves, that played at President. Donald Trump, no matter how badly you hate him, is a financial and production genius. You can go to the website promiseskept.com and take a look at what he has achieved. I thought he was good at what he did.

Companies who want to dominate a particular sector of the market use what our call "think tanks." Military establishments use these all the time. People like Matthew Snowden was one of them. A true genius with incredible talent hidden quietly away spying on the American people. He is one of the few who had power but laid it down.

Trump is so successful, in my humble opinion, he has to have some of these think tanks. Think tanks are people with talents and perspectives who have resources to super computers and super databases to play out different scenarios and come up with strategies.

Either I look forward to being incredibly disappointed by Donald Trump or simply to be impressed with myself for knowing how smart he is.

So many of the things that seem like him losing could actually be him winning. 9 days before the end of his term Congress moves to impeach him. I don't care who you are, that is stupid as hell. At the very least you would enrage half the nation. At worst, start a civil war with genuine bullets.

We all saw how stupid Rudy looked. He claimed to have the evidence and yet never really produced it. But just as I thought he looked stupid, so did everybody else. They seemed emboldened. They cut his feed on social media, which too a powerful president was probably a suicide act. They have violated the civil rights of millions of conservatives. Big Tech actually shut down another company that they didn't like.

So right now, is Trump really as stupid as you think he is? Or is he as smart as I think he is? I am told this is all been a drama to let people expose themselves in a swamp water. But we could all be terribly wrong.

[Hagoth]

So right now, is Trump really as stupid as you think he is? Or is he as smart as I think he is? I am told this is all been a drama to let people expose themselves in a swamp water. But we could all be terribly wrong.

I can't shake the opinion that his attempt to drain the swamp looks more like filling a cesspool. It's interesting that Republicans are starting to join the voices calling for impeachment. I think their sense of integrity and sincere concern for justice makes it difficult for them to watch a president foment terrorism against his own people and then just walk away unscathed. He has certainly wreaked havoc within the Republican party. They sound very empty now when they call for unity across isles unity in the midst of so much internal turmoil. Do you think there is a party schism brewing?

It also looks like Trump might be facing some serious business setbacks.

[SaidNobody]

It's interesting that Republicans are starting to join the voices calling for impeachment.

Like I said. The monster's exposing themselves in the water. Impeaching a president? For what? Taking out a president for anything short of a very serious crime is treason and betrayal to the concept of the president. Just impeaching a president because you can isn't what our founding fathers had in mind. They are not protecting our nation, they are covering in their ass.

I know you guys have bought into this idea that you can impeach a president if he offends you, but this isn't a game. He is OUR president and you attacked him. Not just verbally, but with powers of government. This is an ACTUAL treason. Jumping on this boat is like using the Titanic for a lifeboat. Now, if only Trump had the "support" that he claims that he does.

[moksha]

I can't shake the opinion that his attempt to drain the swamp looks more like filling a cesspool.

The whole idea of replacing swamp water with raw sewage was very Trumpian, but the magic was getting his followers to inhale deeply and relish the scent.

[SaidNobody]

I can't shake the opinion that his attempt to drain the swamp looks more like filling a cesspool.

The whole idea of replacing swamp water with raw sewage was very Trumpian, but the magic was getting his followers to inhale deeply and relish the scent.

More insults.

Can you explain to me why you think you are so much smarter than me?

All I ever hear is how much more Superior you are. Why are you better than Trump supporters?

[Cnsl1]

Here's why *I* think I'm smarter than you...

I watched what happened with my own eyes. I listened to what Trump said with my own ears. I reviewed what transpired and used my critical thinking brain to determine that our president appears more concerned about his image than his country. I did not rely on someone else and fringe websites to tell me the "real" story.

I respect differences of opinion. I less respect when someone says they'll never change their opinion no matter what.

I honestly tried to like the man. I looked at the information some of my friends say supports his contention of being a stable genius. I critically reviewed data from both sides. I did not have an answer before I asked the questions. I did not say I would never change my mind, as you did. People who cannot change their opinion in the face of disconfirming info are not, in my opinion, especially smart. Faithful, believing, dedicated, loyal? Perhaps.

Hopefully, our country will rebound from this. Hopefully there will not be any more ridiculous acts from rabid Trumpers. Hopefully there will not be any similarly ridiculous retaliatory acts from those who hate the Trumpers. Hopefully cooler heads prevail and four years from now we can have some more discussions about who should lead the country.

A long time ago I thought this country would probably do well to swing back and forth from left to right every few years, which might keep us somewhere around the middle of the road. It wouldn't please everyone, but it might just make it best for everyone. I still think that's probably not a terrible idea. I fear, however, that we have not seen our last "Trump", or our last charismatic power hungry idol able to foment a large number of followers with victim complexes using a mass of misinformation. I predict "Trump" will become a word for this type of person. His effect has been huge. Global. Like an epidemic.

Tell me... Do you think OJ was innocent? I've heard a lot of people do.

[Hagoth]

Taking out a president for anything short of a very serious crime is treason and betrayal to the concept of the president. Just impeaching a president because you can isn't what our founding fathers had in mind. They are not protecting our nation, they are covering in their ass.

I would say that impeaching a president FOR serious crime and treason is exactly why it should be an option.

You say it was Antifa who stormed the capitol. They have identified most of the ringleaders. Antifa? Nope, proud white nationalists saying, "we're here because out president wants us here." This was an organized MAGA act of terrorism perpetrated with the president's incitement and approval. He worked up the crowd, sent them off to do their duty and then sat back and watched it unfold. Did he make any serious effort to stop it? He chimed in a couple of times to tell them to respect the police, but also to rage against Mike Pence (rioters started chanting, "hang Mike Pence!) and then he waited while everyone was begging him to intervene and then, once the party was winding down he told the mob to go home with a little thank you kiss on the cheek, "We love you, you are very special."

There is one disturbing common thread that keeps coming to the surface in the MAGA movement and that is racism and white nationalism. Just look at the people who attacked the capitol. Please understand, SN, I'm not saying that about you, but surely you are aware of how much encouragement and dogwhistling Trump has given that unfortunate and misguided faction of our population. My hope is that this turmoil is the last gasp of a mindset that is untenable in the 21st century.

...but this isn't a game.

Damn straight. It is treason and sedition. I don't think we hang people for that anymore but we shouldn't hand them a bouquet of roses and send them off to another round of golf either.

My personal appraisal of facts vs. hearsay gives me no choice but to stand with the courts, the Justice Dept, the GOP election officials, and the SCOTUS. As far as I can tell the only candidate who was and is actively working to steal the election is Donald Trump.

[SaidNobody]

...but this isn't a game.

Damn straight. It is treason and sedition. I don't think we hang people for that anymore but we shouldn't hand them a bouquet of roses and send them off to another round of golf either.

My personal appraisal of facts vs. hearsay gives me no choice but to stand with the courts, the Justice Dept, the GOP election officials, and the SCOTUS. As far as I can tell the only candidate who was and is actively working to steal the election is Donald Trump.

This is a perfectly acceptable place to stand. It remains to be seen how comfortable this position will be.

[Mormorrisey]

This has been an interesting thread, and I've been hesitant to join it. Part of it is that I'm Canadian, and technically it has nothing to do with me. But I've also spent HOURS of my life watching this stuff, I'm pretty addicted to it, simply because it's a pandemic, the kids are in school, and I literally have nothing else to do.

So here's my two cents.

Sis M's sister is a huge Trump supporter and Q fan. Sis M does not like Trump. So she is at a loss how to help her sister "See" what Trump is doing. Luckily, she doesn't really argue, but just listens. So I told Sis M this: "so what you're saying, is that your sister is refusing to see the truth, she won't read or listen to anything that badmouths Trump, she's just a blind follower of everything he says?" Of course Sis M saw where this was heading, and went a little quiet. So I just told her," lookit, you've been upfront that you don't want to read anything bad about the church, you don't want to know the warts, and you just believe what the brethren tell you, and nothing's going to stop you from believing. And you are upfront about it, and that's cool. But that's where your sister is at with Trump. Nothing you say will change her mind, no evidence is strong enough, to dissuade her from that belief, just like you and the church. So I wouldn't try, if I were you." This from me, the voice of experience.

So that's Trump supporters in a nutshell. They don't want "truth," they want to have their views validated. And when they're not validated, well, we all saw what happened last Wednesday. Not that all Trump supporters are violent, it's like blaming all last summer's riots on Black Lives Matter, but many are frustrated. And I can dig it, but it's not "TRUTH" that they're after, but the Trumpian version of the facts. And again, that's cool, if they can understand that those of us who are really interested in "truth," can't buy what they're selling. And it's not because I've listened to the "lamestream" media about these things, either.

I watched all five "hearings" about election fraud, the two in Georgia, and the Arizona, PA, and Michigan one. They all followed the same predictable pattern - somehow not allowing Republican watchers constituted fraud; using algorithms with no data to back them up to "prove" ballot dumps; affidavits/testimony from people who didn't know WHAT they were seeing but it must have been fraud, and most importantly, because these were political theatre, not real hearings, literally no pushback because other than the Georgia and Michigan "hearings," there were no Democrats to ask questions. It was just speculative hearsay, with no real "proof" or evidence. To me, there was one event that proved the nature of these hearings in a nutshell. It was the last one in Georgia, where the inventor of the "Cue Cat" (one of the worst inventions of all time, seriously, look it up) said that he had the smoking gun, that his IT crew had hacked their way into a poll pad, one of Georgia's Dominion machines. And all the Republicans were so excited, they all said it was "PROOF" that the Dominion machines could be rigged, and it was HUGE! And so I kept waiting for someone, anyone, to ask the most important question of all; "Can you SHOW US PROOF that you've hacked in these machines?" Not only did no one ask the question, I still have yet to see actual PROOF that this guy hacked into a Dominion machine, other than his word. That's not evidence, friends. And it's the same conclusion that the FBI, the DOJ and Homeland Security have come to.

And it's same with the court cases. I'm no lawyer, but I've read more court decisions over the last two months than I thought I ever would. And it is clearly a lie, a falsehood, a complete fabrication that out of the 63 cases thrown out, that no judge has looked at the merits of the election fraud cases. Granted, about 85% or so of the cases were thrown out for things other than merit - for example, many were thrown out for lacking standing, and for "laches," which essentially means Trump supporters should have pressed their case before the election, instead of waiting to see if he lost. But some were judged on merit, like a PA case with Judge Brann, who called the merits "completely speculative." As did a Nevada judge on Dec 9th, a couple of Michigan judges early in the process and at least one of the Arizona judges. And that's not even counting the Sidney Powell/Lin Wood fraud cases, which are so loopy that judges are just throwing them out based on their merits. And speaking of Powell, I've actually read all 270 pages of her Kraken 2.0, (like I said, I've had a LOT of time on my hands with this pandemic) and it's crazy speculative and simply not credible or provable. Any of it. And it's no wonder that they've gotten zero traction in the courts.

Any anybody who has watched any of the video of the capitol riots, not just media clips, but the actual video taken by the people who were there, know without a doubt that this was not antifa, but Trump supporters who caused all the mayhem. It's just another falsehood, spun by the same people who are invested in the notion of election fraud. To believe otherwise, is to disavow Occam's razor as a viable philosophy, and will win you a gold medal in mental gymnastics. So it's cool if people want to believe that it was election fraud, but that's exactly what it is; a belief or faith. It's not fact. All of it can be explained. Trump winning most counties? Clearly Biden won all the major cities, so that fixes that. Surge of Biden votes early in the morning? All the swing states didn't allow mail in vote counting until in person votes were counted, and since Trump lambasted mail in voting, we know Biden supporters mailed their votes. Changes to elections in PA? It was the REPUBLICANS who made these changes in 2019. And on and on. So if Trump supporters want to believe in non-existent voter fraud, they can. But when Trump and his supporters can't prove it, and they lose in court, don't whine and moan that no one wants to know the truth. We know the truth, and it's not the Trumpian version of it.

[Mormorrisey]

He is the president.

Check.

He is in the office.

Check.

He won the election.

Now that, is pretty brilliant/hilarious. Kudos to you, Hagoth!

[Hagoth]

So it's cool if people want to believe that it was election fraud, but that's exactly what it is; a belief or faith. It's not fact. All of it can be explained. Trump winning most counties? Clearly Biden won all the major cities, so that fixes that. Surge of Biden votes early in the morning? All the swing states didn't allow mail in vote counting until in person votes were counted, and since Trump lambasted mail in voting, we know Biden supporters mailed their votes. Changes to elections in PA? It was the REPUBLICANS who made these changes in 2019. And on and on. So if Trump supporters want to believe in non-existent voter fraud, they can. But when Trump and his supporters can't prove it, and they lose in court, don't whine and moan that no one wants to know the truth. We know the truth, and it's not the Trumpian version of it.

Thank you, Mormorrisey, that is an excellent summary of what happened.

I can understand why people are outraged at the idea that the vote was stolen for them, but I wish they would step away from their anger long enough to at least consider the points you made.

They might begin to realize that Rudy performed so poorly because his arguments were only as good as his evidence, which was pitiful. They might find some sympathy for all of us who did not vote for Trump and want our votes counted. They might understand why we have the right to feel just as angry about Trump and his loyalists trying to overturn our vote after the fact. Sure, 74 million voted for Trump but let's not be so quick to simply write off the 81 million of us who voted otherwise (plus a shout out to the Kanye voters!). It might start to dawn on them why we are so upset that a mob of MAGA people smashed up our capitol with the intent of stopping our votes from being counted, and with threats to hang our vice president and abduct and kill our elected leaders, Democrat and Republican alike.

BTW, that 74 million number does not remotely represent the number of people who continue to stand behind him if his approval rating is any indication.

[Hagoth]

It looks like Jon McNaughton updated this painting for accuracy:

Fiddle_sm.jpg (53.54 KiB) Viewed 6695 times

[Mormorrisey]

Sure, 74 million voted for Trump but let's not be so quick to simply write off the 81 million of us who voted otherwise (plus a shout out to the Kanye voters!). It might start to dawn on them why we are so upset that a mob of MAGA people smashed up our capitol with the intent of stopping our votes from being counted, and with threats to hang our vice president and abduct and kill our elected leaders, Democrat and Republican alike.

BTW, that 74 million number does not remotely represent the number of people who continue to stand behind him if his approval rating is any indication.

I find this an interesting question, too, how much support Trump actually has. Or Biden for that matter. It's anecdotal evidence, to be sure, so take it with a grain of salt, but it jives with other things I've read and heard on the margins.

I have two wonderful American sons in law. I love them both. Both are Republican, which is cool. One really doesn't like Trump, and for the first time ever, voted Democrat, BUT JUST FOR PRESIDENT. He voted Republican everywhere else. But that's how much he hates Trump. And he doesn't like Biden; and I can even understand that. Biden has all the charisma of a limp noodle. But he hated Trump so much, that he voted for Biden. So I'm wondering if some Biden voters are similar, they are just anti-Trump votes. Again, also based on some other things I've read. Not the majority believes this, I'm sure, but does the silent minority?

My other son in law, doesn't like Trump either. But he's a Republican, and so voted for Trump. But did so RELUCTANTLY.

How many others in the 74 million, feel the same way? That they are reluctant Trump voters, not really Trump supporters. I'm sure the Georgia/Arizona governors are in this camp, for example. And how many of the 81 million are reluctant Biden voters? It's an interesting question that I'm not seeing addressed in any meaningful way. And maybe it's as simple as this - voting reluctantly is a very Canadian trait, so I'm just transposing this to the American context, and it really doesn't mean that many people did it. But I sure would be interested in American opinions about this.