Keeping up with Trump

Chat about a topic supported by books, TED Talks, podcasts, personal experience, philosophies of mankind mingled with humor (shout out to IOT), and maybe we’ll even do a google hangout or conference call once a month.
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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:52 pm

Cnsl1 wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:00 pm
One reason you're hard to believe, Saidnobody, and why it's hard to take you seriously is that among all the stuff you say, there are things probably each of us know are blatantly untrue. For instance, you said previously that AZ had already overturned the election results. That's just completely not true. AZ did not overturn anything. You should know that, but yet you still claim it. That makes me think you're also a liar. You're either a severely misinformed ignoramus, or a liar, OR, you're mistaken on that particular point. Which is it?

You're right about gas and food prices being high. Spot on.
Perhaps I am being less than precise in my language. I believe there is currently a bill being introduced in Arizona legislation that would allow for the election to be overturned.

I had heard through my committee that a law suit in Maricopa had Invalidated a bunch of fraudulent votes. This doesn't overturn the election but it opens the way. But I think most people really don't want it overturned but we do want the fraud exposed. When I said overturned, I meant that evidence (or so I've heard) was presented and proven to show the Maricopa county results to be wrong. That doesn't overturn the state vote, but does show it didn't rightfully go to Biden. Many Republicans are calling the bill childish and I agree. But there was fraudulent intent that night. We didn't elect a corpse to ruin the country. No one likes Biden. They had to buy if Bernie to get Biden in the race. The Dem party picked Biden and they cheated out better contenders to do it.

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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Cnsl1 » Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:08 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:52 pm
Cnsl1 wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:00 pm
One reason you're hard to believe, Saidnobody, and why it's hard to take you seriously is that among all the stuff you say, there are things probably each of us know are blatantly untrue. For instance, you said previously that AZ had already overturned the election results. That's just completely not true. AZ did not overturn anything. You should know that, but yet you still claim it. That makes me think you're also a liar. You're either a severely misinformed ignoramus, or a liar, OR, you're mistaken on that particular point. Which is it?

You're right about gas and food prices being high. Spot on.
Perhaps I am being less than precise in my language. I believe there is currently a bill being introduced in Arizona legislation that would allow for the election to be overturned.
That is not quite correct. What is correct is that there was a bill introduced that would have removed the mail in vote and, in the words of the numbskull who co-proposed it, "make voting back to the way it was in 1958." It should be noted that in 1958 AZ required a literacy test to vote. PLUS, the bill would have allowed legislators the ability to overturn FUTURE election results if they didn't agree FOR ANY REASON, plus any voter in the state could petition a judge for a new election. If that wasn't enough, the bill also proposed that the votes would be HAND COUNTED within 24 hours. Yeah... we got some real brainiacs in the legislature here. And no... no way in hell (and it's hot as hell here so we know what that means).. no way in hell it passed.

Our govnuh did sign legislation to say that only US citizens could vote in AZ. Go figure.

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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Cnsl1 » Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:35 am

[/quote]
I had heard through my committee that a law suit in Maricopa had Invalidated a bunch of fraudulent votes. This doesn't overturn the election but it opens the way. But I think most people really don't want it overturned but we do want the fraud exposed. When I said overturned, I meant that evidence (or so I've heard) was presented and proven to show the Maricopa county results to be wrong. That doesn't overturn the state vote, but does show it didn't rightfully go to Biden. Many Republicans are calling the bill childish and I agree. But there was fraudulent intent that night. We didn't elect a corpse to ruin the country. No one likes Biden. They had to buy if Bernie to get Biden in the race. The Dem party picked Biden and they cheated out better contenders to do it.
[/quote]

Again, no. Multiple recounts, including a 2 week hand count, showed that Biden won Maricopa County, which is the most populous county in AZ and typically swings Republican, so it was a surprise to some, though also kind of expected based on later polling and based on the popularity of the Dem Senator elected that same year, who basically carried the same counties. Trump won more counties in AZ overall, but lost in the two biggest counties.

I disagree that no one likes Biden. He was a popular VP and has been a well liked Senator for many years. Hell, he supported Bush in the ill conceived war in Iraq. I was not thrilled with the choice, but I don't think anyone bought out Bernie. Dems had 4 years to come up with someone to beat Trump and they barely got it done. Bernie just scared too many people because he liked to throw around that S word. IMO, the race should have been a landslide. C'mon, enough people hated Trump that an old white guy with barely a pulse could beat him. And yes, he beat him. But a strong candidate? Someone like Obama? Oh, but even close imo. Would Trump have cried foul had he got his ass kicked? Idk, probably.

So who is next up for the republiguns? If it's a trumper, they'll lose. The guns gotta put up someone who is the antithesis of Trump. Good time for Mitt, i would think, but too many dumb shit republicans and mormons now hate him. Too bad. I think he'd be a good president.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:14 am

What we have here is, well, I admit my give-a-shitter is broken.

Even you were "surprised" at the results.

Mass mail-in ballots aren't safe. In PA people were scrambling for weeks to get a handle. Republican observers were locked out. There are home-video all over the place as they were kicked out of key areas. Encryption keys were stolen. Talk of 800K more ballots received than sent out. Video of extra boxes of votes pulled unexpectedly from under the table. But main stream went and got ahead of it. Video disappeared. Witnesses went quiet. And court cases were denied. And the left cheered as half the nation lost faith in the election. Many said we too stupid to vote anyway.

I hope Trump comes back. There is still a lot of support. All Republicans are focused on election integrity.

Obama made Joe Biden popular. This was Joe's third try. But Joe had made friends with the right people. Things just worked out for him. I believe the Ohio primary probably would have picked someone else, but unexpected delays gave Joe the greenlight. Joe fumbled and bumbled his ways to the finish. Even tons of video of racists comments and open disrespect of the military, the media dragged him to the finish. But nobody expected him to win. And the FBI and CIA obviously hated Trump which made us all very suspicious.

Anyway, injustice has been done.

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Mormorrisey » Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:28 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:42 pm

The hate at what you guys came after this President is really just shameful. I personally observed Joe Biden doing dirty dealings with Arabs when he was a senator for Delaware. I don't trust him. I don't like him. But I don't hate him. You guys just have hate. I don't hate Satan as much as you guys hate Trump.
Man, I haven't looked at this section in months, and we're still here? Good grief.

Here's something, though, I don't understand. I had a Trumper buddy hurl this accusation at me the other day. He asked me what I had against Trump. I said, well, he's a narcissistic moron, a proven liar, and is busily engaged in ruining an entire country's democratic apparatus simply because his butthurt ego couldn't handle that he lost. End of story. And so this guy says, so, you hate Trump. I'm like what? What do you mean I hate him? I don't know him, I'm just going on what I see, I'm not American, why would I "hate" him? He kept repeating this phrase like a mantra, "no, no, you hate Trump." What? Where do people come up with this nonsense? Is it just to end any rational debate? Is this where I say only a Sith deals in absolutes? It's just parody, or trolling behaviour, I haven't figured out which.

In any event, here's where America, and Canada for that matter, needs to go. After watching Bowers, Raffensberger and Sterling on the telly today, all Republicans and conservatives the lot of them, I'm pretty confident that I would have zero in common with them politically. I'm sure we would adamantly disagree on things like gun control, the welfare state, immigration, and the list could go on and on. But, I would, if I were American, think of them as allies in trying to keep a weakening democratic apparatus from toppling from authoritarian Trumpian bullcrap. And kudos to them for not fully buying into the lie/grift/attempted coup.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:05 pm

Cnsl1 wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:35 am
So who is next up for the republiguns?
If Trump does not run due to incarceration, I think Republicans will opt for a ticket of Marjorie Taylor Greene and Matt Gaetz. They present the type of thinking and lack of honesty that Republicans have come to expect. Remember, Republicans cannot nominate Vladimir Putin due to him not being a United States citizen.

SaidNobody wrote:And the FBI and CIA obviously hated Trump which made us all very suspicious.
Inviting agents of the Russian govt' to campaign strategy meetings may have tipped them off that Trump was not operating with the best interests of the American people in mind.
Anyway, injustice has been done.
Dead Capitol police officers from an attempted coup by a would-be narcissistic dictator was certainly an injustice.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Tue Jun 21, 2022 5:25 pm

moksha wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:05 pm

Dead Capitol police officers from an attempted coup by a would-be narcissistic dictator was certainly an injustice.
Attempted coup is completely made up. There is no evidence of a coup. The coup had already happened with the Dems, FBI, CIA.

No officers were killed at Jan 6. One reason is the most officers left. Deaths are considered, "in connection" with Jan 6, but usually are accidental or health related.

But, as part of the spin, the media tries to make it sound like something it wasn't. Like when AOC cowered for her life but wasn't actually in the building.

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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Cnsl1 » Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:39 am

Please tell the families of the dead capital police that they didn't really die defending the capital. I don't care if you don't call it a coup, it was an illegal, and it lead to several deaths, and it was a huge black mark on the country, and it was in part instigated by Trump and his false narrative.

Mail in voting has been used for decades in many states. AZ is one. I've voted that way for many years. It's legal and effective, and monitored closely. I can't speak for PA. But I'm sure that confirmation bias and the belief bias effect explains a great deal here. I try hard to avoid such bias. It is difficult and requires looking critically at your own beliefs, taking on the opposite view, and patiently looking at the data as objectively as possible. By doing that, I have changed my viewpoint several times over the years, but this was not one of those times. Nothing I've learned has convinced me that Trump won, or trump was innocent. Rather, I've come to believe that he's probably got NPD and ADHD, and that he missed a great opportunity because his arrogance got in the way and his pride can't handle it. It's difficult to beat an incumbent, but look who beat an incumbent. The last three guys to do it: Reagan (very popular), Bill Clinton (very popular--initially at least), then Biden? That's how much Trump sucked at the job and sucked at getting people to like him. No DOUBT he has staunch followers, but I'm talking about the undecideds, the swing votes. People like me. He did not win us over.

Yes I was surprised it was so close. I thought Biden would win bigger.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:39 pm

Cnsl1 wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:39 am
Please tell those families of the dead capital police that they didn't really die defending the capital. I don't care if you don't call it a coup, it was an illegal, and it lead to several deaths, and it was a huge black mark on the country, and it was in part instigated by Trump and his false narrative.
I will tell them that capital police didn't die defending the capital. I know you don't care that what I call it. That is part of the disconnect. It's only a black mark because the media is bending over backward to make it look that way. Trump wanted to walk with the people but Secret Service detected bad actors in the crowd and wouldn't let. I won't lie, I thought it was dumb to think he would be able to walk in public. The hate was way too strong. But Trump wasn't trying to start a coup. Have you known him to fail at much? Promiseskept.com

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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Cnsl1 » Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:54 pm

I can't speak for all of the fourth estate, but what I'm taking about are pictures taken by multiple sources including the people involved. I know many were peaceful protesters, but many broke the law. MANY.

Are you suggesting that many people did not enter the capital and vandalize? Are you trying to say that the over 800 people arrested for the riot were peaceful? That mainstream media made all this up?

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:22 am

Cnsl1 wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:54 pm
I can't speak for all of the fourth estate, but what I'm taking about are pictures taken by multiple sources including the people involved. I know many were peaceful protesters, but many broke the law. MANY.

Are you suggesting that many people did not enter the capital and vandalize? Are you trying to say that the over 800 people arrested for the riot were peaceful? That mainstream media made all this up?
No I'm not saying any of those things. I know there was an incident. I know that the police abandoned their posts. I've even heard police guided many people in. Did you see the videos of people dressing up into antifa gear? I saw many of those. Antifa was not part of the Trump supporters but they were there. They have been reports that even the FBI was in the crowd. If the FBI was in the crowds were they there to keep the peace, or agitate? I don't think they did much to keep the peace.

Trump wanted a peaceful protest. He was going to walk up to the Capitol building with the people. Secret Service picked up on trouble brewing in the crowd and so they would not let him walk up. And it wasn't meant to be a coup. It was meant to be peaceful protest. But the police abandoned the building and let them in. One person got shot inside, but that whole thing was really weird too.

I saw dozens of videos the peaceful protesters abandoning the scene as quickly as they could because they knew that there were people among them that were not part of their cause. There was video people changing their calls into the black masked and the black masked.

All of this was reported to the media but they chose to overlook it.

I would bet there were no fewer than a half dozen major organizations in pushing their own agenda. I have Spidey senses and I knew long before the event even happened if something like this was going down. It was too perfect. That is one of the few things that I hold against Trump for being so stupid.

But as a rabbit Trump supporter I know that we would have never actually pulled a coup. It would have destroyed the country. It is true, many of us didn't think it would be a coup because we thought we had the legitimately won.

There were some spooky underlying events going on that made many of us Wonder. But those simply went away and we don't know if they were real or not.

But, I don't believe that Joe Biden got the majority of the country. I don't believe Trump was planning a coup or even worded one. I believe that the real Trump supporters there mostly left before anything happened. But there are troublemakers in any group.

Everyone was telling me that I'm wrong about the election. But was I wrong about the effect of Joe Biden on the country? I have talked to a fair amount of Democrats. I try to be friendly wherever I go. But the level of denial is very obvious. Like you, they really cannot understand why I would question the outcome of the election. I don't consider myself anti-American. I would accept a false president before I would support a civil war. I'm sure elections have been messed with before.

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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:21 am

The amount of lies told by Trump and his supporters is staggering. Trump holds the documented record for the most lies told by any world leader. Perhaps Trump wished to be memorialized as The King of the Whoppers.

My guess is that his supporters must hold some records of their own involving gullibility and the willingness to push misinformation in defense of Trump.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:20 pm

moksha wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:21 am
The amount of lies told by Trump and his supporters is staggering. Trump holds the documented record for the most lies told by any world leader. Perhaps Trump wished to be memorialized as The King of the Whoppers.

My guess is that his supporters must hold some records of their own involving gullibility and the willingness to push misinformation in defense of Trump.
These are bad guesses.

One day I asked someone, "what lies?"

I was directed to a website that listed, on some priority of importance the lies he told. I thought, oh shit. So I started looking them up. One of the first was, most times published on the cover of Time magazine. I looked it up. He said, mostly this way, "I think I might be the most published man on the cover Time. Turns out, Richard Nixon (40+) was the most published guy. Trump (11) the most times for someone living. They were all like this. Michigan Man of the Year. He was given an award by some leaders in Michigan. One said something like, if we had a man of the year you would it."

These are not lies to write home about. For having told so many lies, many people considered him the most honest president.

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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by hmb » Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:07 pm

These hearings are so interesting and informative. I don't expect to learn new things, and then I do. I look forward to learning even more. I so appreciate the manner in which they've been conducted. Facts. Not opinion, just facts with lots of evidence, from Trump supporters. Real evidence, not the baseless nonsense some of the GOP tried to spin in an attempt to overturn the 2020 election. I think there may be some GOP peeps, "going to go through some things." Time will tell. Nothing surprises me anymore.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:17 pm

hmb wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:07 pm
These hearings are so interesting and informative. I don't expect to learn new things, and then I do. I look forward to learning even more. I so appreciate the manner in which they've been conducted. Facts. Not opinion, just facts with lots of evidence, from Trump supporters. Real evidence, not the baseless nonsense some of the GOP tried to spin in an attempt to overturn the 2020 election. I think there may be some GOP peeps, "going to go through some things." Time will tell. Nothing surprises me anymore.
I love how you use that term, real evidence.

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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by hmb » Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:04 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:17 pm
hmb wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:07 pm
These hearings are so interesting and informative. I don't expect to learn new things, and then I do. I look forward to learning even more. I so appreciate the manner in which they've been conducted. Facts. Not opinion, just facts with lots of evidence, from Trump supporters. Real evidence, not the baseless nonsense some of the GOP tried to spin in an attempt to overturn the 2020 election. I think there may be some GOP peeps, "going to go through some things." Time will tell. Nothing surprises me anymore.
I love how you use that term, real evidence.
Sorry. I should have said tangible evidence. Something with fact to support it.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:19 pm

hmb wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:04 am

Sorry. I should have said tangible evidence. Something with fact to support it.
Sometimes I swear I'm on the Twilight Zone.

Two years after the president has been out of the office, you are still looking for evidence to convict him of the crimes you have already accused him of. It's like the idea of innocent until proven guilty doesn't even exist in this country. You have decided that he is guilty and you will look for the evidence until you find it. I feel almost ashamed to insult people that would think like that.

I hate facts, I really do. People act like they have something to do with the truth. Like, it's a fact that Trump was impeached twice. But the truth, they never had anything against him.

I watched that whole trial, twice, on CSPAN. They had nothing. I won't even repeat the stupid stuff they did. Ok, maybe a couple of things. Adam Schiff got up and did a dramatic diatribe about how Trump shock-down Ukraine on the phone. When confronted about the TOTAL LIE he had told, his reply was, "it's called humor. I'm sorry if you don't got it, but I guess that is part of the problem." Like, he had just accused the president of treason on the House Floor but excused it as humor? Are you kidding me?

Then, Adam Schiff promised us a witness many times but gives us nothing. Turns out, the witness he didn't give up was a political strategist for Barack Obama and the Hillary campaign. How he hadn't been fired already it was either stupid thing on Trump's part or some sense of misplaced generosity. Then, they started having hearings of witnesses they would not allow the Republican party would be a part of. When the Republican party broke into the hearings, Adam Schiff threatened to have them arrested.

Maybe you think you have a solid case against Trump, but it seems completely immoral to me.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:03 pm

You might ask.... Ok, so I know that nobody asked.... But why is the case against Trump immoral?

#1 Freedom from harm.

The first pillar of morality is about using common strength to stand up against tyranny. Like standing up to a school yard bully. But Trump hadn't hurt anyone, at least not where people are suppose grown up. Trump had hurt feelings, but this was politics. He was tweeting, calling people out. He wasn't arresting people, or having their homes raided by the FBI. He wasn't abusing his authority to gain advantage. Sure, he was accused of using dog-whistles, but that is just stupid talk. People hear what they want to hear. Accusing the president of behavior because certain people like him is unfair.

Which brings us to moral,
#2 fairness and equality
The Russian dossier was lazy opposition research from Democrat company that was presented to the FBI as fact. I don't think a single point on that dossier turned out to be right but they still use it as talking points. The trust and benefit of doubt that would have been given to any other president wasn't extended to Trump. Obama had Mueller and Comy behind him all the time like guard dogs. Trump didn't have the FBI, CIA, or for part of the time even the DOJ. It was so freaking unfair it's embarrassing.

#3 Authority
Trump spent a lot of his time protecting the police, and the military. He protected traditional authority, such as family, church, higher-power-traditions, history, and police. The left did everything in their power to destroy Authority. They attacked police, city entities, his privileges as the president, even tried to take his immunity.

#4 Sanctity
This is huge but I will focus on the attacks against the sacred office is the president. I didn't like Obama but he was my president. I think he was worst president (only because Trump says so, President Grant was worse) but I never bad mouthed him. I never hoped him ill. Instead of saying that Michelle was the first transgender first lady, I told my daughter to research it herself. I'm not saying that all constructives respected Obama, but I personally think the disrespect to the sacred office is the president was over the top.

#5 Honor
This is hard to talk about because every liberal I talk to claims that they are honorable and Republicans are dishonorable. People talk about how Trump lied. But when I researched Trump's lies, they seemed more like stylistic bragging. There are supposedly 20,000 lies and I only researched the first 20 on the list. But most of the lies are rendered null and void because they are usually accompanied with words like, "I might be, if I remember right, the whole world loves me and my products, my kids are the best kids, my wife is the most beautiful, I'm a stable-genius (that one was true.)

But Adam Schiff lied, lied, lied, lied and nobody seemed to care. People accused Trump without evidence and promised to find the evidence later. That is totally dishonorable. Trump's lies are nothing compared to the lies against him. Dems have no high ground when it comes to lying. Their lies were malicious, intentional, and persistent. So maybe he was only most published "living person" on the cover of Time.

For all the so called lies Trump told, his supporters and millions of people around the world considered him the most honest of the leaders. Arrogant, ADHD, narcissistic, orange spray tan, ODD, have nothing to do with honor. He kept his word. And we love him for it.

Thanks for letting me share.

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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:32 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:03 pm
Republicans are dishonorable.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

hmb
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by hmb » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:00 am

I read this today. It fits in so many situations and applies here.
lack of facts.jpg
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