Keeping up with Trump

Chat about a topic supported by books, TED Talks, podcasts, personal experience, philosophies of mankind mingled with humor (shout out to IOT), and maybe we’ll even do a google hangout or conference call once a month.
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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:13 pm

LSOF wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:38 pm
moksha wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:31 pm
A major announcement of Grift by Trump on Truth Social: $100 dollar Trump cards!!! Think of that when one of the conservative talking heads attack anything else. Their values are based on a house of Trump Cards.

Image
You shall worship me and be grifted!
The cult is disappointed by this, thinking that his major announcement would have to do with their conspiracy theories, their warmed-over blood libels. Nope, it's just the guy with the golden toilet being the guy with the golden toilet.

Edit: I almost forgot, they're NFTs too! This is truly the most Trumpian thing Trump has ever done!
I think what you guys hate about Trump is something that many of us love about him. Where you see someone who is narcissistic we see someone who can take himself lightly. He can have fun with the attention that he gets and still use it to his advantage. His end goal is his brand. It's not even so much about what you think about him as it is about his branding on products and projects.

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LSOF
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by LSOF » Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:17 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:13 pm
I think what you guys hate about Trump is something that many of us love about him. Where you see someone who is narcissistic we see someone who can take himself lightly. He can have fun with the attention that he gets and still use it to his advantage. His end goal is his brand. It's not even so much about what you think about him as it is about his branding on products and projects.
You just described narcissism with more words. And you think this is a desirable quality in a head of state? If so, I have some prime beachfront real estate in Arizona to sell you.
"I appreciate your flesh needs to martyr me." Parture

"There is no contradiction between faith and science --- true science." Dr Zaius

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hmb
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by hmb » Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:55 am

moksha wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:31 pm
A major announcement of Grift by Trump on Truth Social: $100 dollar Trump cards!!! Think of that when one of the conservative talking heads attack anything else. Their values are based on a house of Trump Cards.
Fibber. $99, not $100. And, that is $99 each + a transactional fee, so likely more than $100 (apologies for calling you a fibber ;) ). Hahaha. Might be worth it though, I mean there are prizes to win. He's supposedly made about $1 million so far. He looks awful. He looks like he's aged 10 years. As much as I want him to fade away, I hope he's not sick.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Fri Dec 16, 2022 7:47 am

LSOF wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:17 pm
SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:13 pm
I think what you guys hate about Trump is something that many of us love about him. Where you see someone who is narcissistic we see someone who can take himself lightly. He can have fun with the attention that he gets and still use it to his advantage. His end goal is his brand. It's not even so much about what you think about him as it is about his branding on products and projects.
You just described narcissism with more words. And you think this is a desirable quality in a head of state? If so, I have some prime beachfront real estate in Arizona to sell you.
The definition for narcissism is more complex than merely enjoying and using attention to your advantage. If you look up Trump's bio it was more likely to say that he was a TV and movie star more than he was a politician.

I've read all of his books. I find that he's actually quite humble for someone so powerful. But he isn't above using publicity to his advantage.

I will bring it up again. When I went to review the so-called lies that he tells they were all misunderstandings or jokes or twisted versions of what happened. No one could show me where he said actual words that contradicted the truth with intention to hide it. He might not always highlight the truth. He might say words that skirt around it a little bit. But if I were to sack his lies up against Obama's I think he would learn the definition of a lie and a liar and it wouldn't be Trump. Trump did what he said he would. Or at least he tried really hard.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:21 am

Democrats are introducing legislation to block Trump from office. Tell me that is a messung with Will of the people and destroying the sacredness of a vote.

dogbite
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by dogbite » Sat Dec 17, 2022 8:57 am

They'll have to skirt restrictions against bill of attainder which is generally not permitted under US law.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Sat Dec 17, 2022 11:32 am

dogbite wrote:
Sat Dec 17, 2022 8:57 am
They'll have to skirt restrictions against bill of attainder which is generally not permitted under US law.
Thank you for that term. Had not heard of that one. I did not think it would be easy to do as it seems pretty much everything anti-American. Declaring someone guilty of a crime without a trial would cause an uproar even Democrats would have a hard time putting down.

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LSOF
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by LSOF » Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:54 pm

Imagine thinking Trump is humble. He's the most vainglorious president I've ever seen. I'm young, admittedly, but still. In his NFT ad, he called himself the greatest president ever, better than Lincoln. Just how humble is that?

Re the "bill of attainder" argument: If the orange man is found to legally be an insurrectionist, he is ineligible to hold office, per one of the Civil War amendments (I think 14).

ETA: Yes, it's 14. Specifically §§ 3 and 5: "§3. No person shall [...] hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, [...] as an officer of the United States, [...] to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. [...]

"§5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."
"I appreciate your flesh needs to martyr me." Parture

"There is no contradiction between faith and science --- true science." Dr Zaius

Pastor, Lunar Society of Friends; CEO, Faithful Origins and Ontology League

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Sat Dec 17, 2022 9:52 pm

LSOF wrote:
Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:54 pm
Imagine thinking Trump is humble. He's the most vainglorious president I've ever seen. I'm young, admittedly, but still. In his NFT ad, he called himself the greatest president ever, better than Lincoln. Just how humble is that?

Re the "bill of attainder" argument: If the orange man is found to legally be an insurrectionist, he is ineligible to hold office, per one of the Civil War amendments (I think 14).

ETA: Yes, it's 14. Specifically §§ 3 and 5: "§3. No person shall [...] hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, [...] as an officer of the United States, [...] to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. [...]

"§5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."
Oh. Seeing how there was no insurrection I suppose that will be difficult. However, Democrats are pretty good at manufacturing evidence. They're not very good at it but they do make a lot of it.

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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:14 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:21 am
Tell me that is not messing with the will of the people and destroying the sacredness of a vote.
No, messing with the will of the people and destroying the sacredness of the vote involved a plot to substitute a fake set of electors, talking about instituting martial law, pressuring states into altering their votes, and holding a violent coup at the Capitol for the purpose of putting an unelected dictator on the throne.

Indulging someone's narcissistic desire to remain as the President despite having lost is not a good thing. The lies that need to be generated to maintain that position can be staggering. Are Republican's a never-ending fount of lies? I suppose only time will tell.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:46 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Sat Dec 17, 2022 9:52 pm
Oh. Seeing how there was no insurrection I suppose that will be difficult. However, Democrats are pretty good at manufacturing evidence. They're not very good at it but they do make a lot of it.
You're joking, right? Cause, it is pretty funny.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by LSOF » Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:45 pm

They will make the stupidest statements in the uttermost solemnity. It makes them feel powerful. In this way, they are very like Mormons.
"I appreciate your flesh needs to martyr me." Parture

"There is no contradiction between faith and science --- true science." Dr Zaius

Pastor, Lunar Society of Friends; CEO, Faithful Origins and Ontology League

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:23 am

moksha wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:14 pm
SaidNobody wrote:
Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:21 am
Tell me that is not messing with the will of the people and destroying the sacredness of a vote.
No, messing with the will of the people and destroying the sacredness of the vote involved a plot to substitute a fake set of electors, talking about instituting martial law, pressuring states into altering their votes, and holding a violent coup at the Capitol for the purpose of putting an unelected dictator on the throne.

Indulging someone's narcissistic desire to remain as the President despite having lost is not a good thing. The lies that need to be generated to maintain that position can be staggering. Are Republican's a never-ending fount of lies? I suppose only time will tell.
You seem to think I'm a liar. I think you are misinformed but I don't think you are a liar.

It's your view of your fellow citizens that I find disturbing.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:45 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:46 pm
SaidNobody wrote:
Sat Dec 17, 2022 9:52 pm
Oh. Seeing how there was no insurrection I suppose that will be difficult. However, Democrats are pretty good at manufacturing evidence. They're not very good at it but they do make a lot of it.
You're joking, right? Cause, it is pretty funny.
There was no insurrection. No one has proved otherwise. Trump was going to walk with the crowd. Secret Service detected trouble makers in the crowd and wouldn't let him walk. Much of the crowd also detected the trouble makers and left.

The Capital police intentionally abandoned their stations. You can see them walking away. The whole thing was a set up. One that I'm knew would happen and I'm very disappointed in Trump for suckering for.

Anyone who thinks such an opportunity wasn't going to be used by the opponents of Trump's doesn't think deeply. I never heard Trump say so he was going to declare martial law.

I don't think he lost. Not from what he said, but from my own observations.

Like, a week before the election someone robbed laptops from the warehouse in Philadelphia holding the election equipment. In PA Trump was declared the winner, but then suddenly 3am more and more votes came in until Trump wasn't the winner.

The deciding states had problems, like AZ, PA, WS, GA, etc. I knew the moment I saw the report about the break in the Trump wouldn't win. He had offered the corrupt and they weren't going to let him win.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:46 am

LSOF wrote:
Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:45 pm
They will make the stupidest statements in the uttermost solemnity. It makes them feel powerful. In this way, they are very like Mormons.
I love Mormons. Highly functional and industrious.

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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by dogbite » Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:40 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:45 am
There was no insurrection. No one has proved otherwise.
There are some assumptions in that claim that I think are flawed. Insurrection is not clearly delineated by specific features or actions in US law. It uses more generalized terms. To say no one has proved otherwise is to assume there are specific authorities to determine that classification. That's not exactly so. It will be up to the legal process, and also to historians down the line to determine if 1/6 was an insurrection. If it were up to me, I think the events of the day qualify as a violent revolt against the government, an insurrection. SO perhaps I've just precluded myself from serving on any jury I might be called to for the events and persons of that day.
I don't think he lost. Not from what he said, but from my own observations.
This is meaningless. Your own observations could only have been of one site. No events at one site would have determined the outcome of this election one way or another. The video of other sites is vastly incomplete and usually misconstrued by people who aren't authoritative to how elections are run under the specific state law.
Like, a week before the election someone robbed laptops from the warehouse in Philadelphia holding the election equipment. In PA Trump was declared the winner, but then suddenly 3am more and more votes came in until Trump wasn't the winner.
First, this isn't your own observation. This is a report, a claim. So laptops were stolen, there is no shown connection to them being used to change the election.

Second, who declared Trump the winner in PA? It wasn't the state, the only ones who can authoritatively call the election. It was a press "analyst" making a guess. PA certified their results on 11/24. Anyone calling the election in PA before that time was not official. There were good reasons to make some claims about the likely result before then but none could be called absolute. It is a mistake on your part to claim that.
The deciding states had problems, like AZ, PA, WS, GA, etc. I knew the moment I saw the report about the break in the Trump wouldn't win. He had offered the corrupt and they weren't going to let him win.
This is not an evidential claim. Laptops stolen in PA won't change the votes in other states and aren't shown to change the votes in PA either.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:10 pm

dogbite wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:40 am
SaidNobody wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:45 am
There was no insurrection. No one has proved otherwise.
There are some assumptions in that claim that I think are flawed. Insurrection is not clearly delineated by specific features or actions in US law. It uses more generalized terms. To say no one has proved otherwise is to assume there are specific authorities to determine that classification. That's not exactly so. It will be up to the legal process, and also to historians down the line to determine if 1/6 was an insurrection. If it were up to me, I think the events of the day qualify as a violent revolt against the government, an insurrection. SO perhaps I've just precluded myself from serving on any jury I might be called to for the events and persons of that day.
I don't think he lost. Not from what he said, but from my own observations.
This is meaningless. Your own observations could only have been of one site. No events at one site would have determined the outcome of this election one way or another. The video of other sites is vastly incomplete and usually misconstrued by people who aren't authoritative to how elections are run under the specific state law.
Like, a week before the election someone robbed laptops from the warehouse in Philadelphia holding the election equipment. In PA Trump was declared the winner, but then suddenly 3am more and more votes came in until Trump wasn't the winner.
First, this isn't your own observation. This is a report, a claim. So laptops were stolen, there is no shown connection to them being used to change the election.

Second, who declared Trump the winner in PA? It wasn't the state, the only ones who can authoritatively call the election. It was a press "analyst" making a guess. PA certified their results on 11/24. Anyone calling the election in PA before that time was not official. There were good reasons to make some claims about the likely result before then but none could be called absolute. It is a mistake on your part to claim that.
The deciding states had problems, like AZ, PA, WS, GA, etc. I knew the moment I saw the report about the break in the Trump wouldn't win. He had offered the corrupt and they weren't going to let him win.
This is not an evidential claim. Laptops stolen in PA won't change the votes in other states and aren't shown to change the votes in PA either.
So even you can see flaws. What about when people attacked the supreme court? Of course, the police started at their stations. How about when people attacked the white house? The first family had to be moved into the bunker. Or when they burned the cities? You conveniently see insurrection in where a protester was shot and killed, an active vet.

If my perspective doesn't matter, I guess your perspective doesn't either.

My observation was watching the news report the thief. Then after the election never mentioned again.

The media declared him the winners. True, they are not official. But statistically they could see the winner. They do it all the time. They were wrong because of suspicious events which of suspicious.

Experts said that with encryption keys on the laptops, results could falsified.

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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:13 pm

The January 6th House Committee recommended today that the DOJ indict Donald Trump and John Eastman on four specific charges. They released a 150-page introduction to their report today and will release the full report on Wednesday.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

dogbite
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by dogbite » Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:31 pm

I don't think I saw flaws like you seem to think I did.
SaidNobody wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:10 pm
My observation was watching the news report the thief. Then after the election never mentioned again.
this happens all the time that the news drops a story. It might be because of time and editorial constraints it might be because nothing's happened for a while and then it drops out of the public eye. You can't draw any conclusion from it being dropped from the news.
Experts said that with encryption keys on the laptops, results could falsified.
Could is not did. The keys on the laptops would simply be revoked by IT. This is routine and easy. Further, those keys would be linked to specific activities which may not even have the authority to do anything significant. The talking heads were speculating worst case for viewer agitation.

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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:54 pm

It is a good thing that not all criminals use this as a defense:

Image
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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