Keeping up with Trump

Chat about a topic supported by books, TED Talks, podcasts, personal experience, philosophies of mankind mingled with humor (shout out to IOT), and maybe we’ll even do a google hangout or conference call once a month.
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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:56 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:23 pm
Yeah, I did. I didn't go through all, but the first 50 or so were completely false. By that I mean, he said stuff like, "I think, or I believe, or I predict" or similar. But the Washington Post lies so that they say Trump lies doesn't prove anything. And so, maybe you could pick ONE Lie that we can discuss, that would be great.
Perhaps we could think of Trump as a novel new virus much like COVID-19 that replicates lies. The country had no immunity to this Trump virus and so became infected. The majority have now built up some immunity, but unfortunately, some people have become supercarriers and spreaders.

One big lie? Okay, here is one: That Trump won the election.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:15 pm

moksha wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:56 pm
SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:23 pm
Yeah, I did. I didn't go through all, but the first 50 or so were completely false. By that I mean, he said stuff like, "I think, or I believe, or I predict" or similar. But the Washington Post lies so that they say Trump lies doesn't prove anything. And so, maybe you could pick ONE Lie that we can discuss, that would be great.
Perhaps we could think of Trump as a novel new virus much like COVID-19 that replicates lies. The country had no immunity to this Trump virus and so became infected. The majority have now built up some immunity, but unfortunately, some people have become supercarriers and spreaders.

One big lie? Okay, here is one: That Trump won the election.
I just posted that Pennsylvania has stopped the certification process of their election. Even if it has to be reversed. Nevada has now agreed to hear election fraud evidence. He can prove that he won but we are not sure if that will be enough. But as of now it's too early to say if it is actually a lie.

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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:43 pm

How to Prepare for the Coming Mental Health Pandemic

The psychological damage from disasters like Trump can last for years. Here’s what we should do now:

1. Realize that the Trumpanistas have lost touch with reality and will wander aimlessly proclaiming inanities like "stolen election" and "not my President" to all who will listen. They may also have the propensity to turn violent, so maintain at least six feet of social distance for personal safety.

2. Take a deep and cleansing breath. Try to unclench and let yourself and the country return to normal.

3. Create a national hotline — No complex dialing like "1-800-Get Real". It needs to be a three digit number easily accessible to the most Trump disoriented among us. Perhaps 000.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:42 pm

How many can say, Donald Trump is my president?

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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:55 pm

Today's ruling by Trump-appointed Judge Stephanos Bibas, speaking for the all-Republican-appointed 3rd circuit court on Trump's latest lawsuit in Pennsylvania: “Free, fair elections are the lifeblood of our democracy. Charges of unfairness are serious. But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here.”

Trump and his minions need to put on their big boy pants.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:52 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:55 pm
Today's ruling by Trump-appointed Judge Stephanos Bibas, speaking for the all-Republican-appointed 3rd circuit court on Trump's latest lawsuit in Pennsylvania: “Free, fair elections are the lifeblood of our democracy. Charges of unfairness are serious. But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here.”

Trump and his minions need to put on their big boy pants.
Don't hold me to this because even i don't know how this will play out. I'm about 90% sure which is just enough to say I can't be 100% sure. So I'm pretty sure Trump is still president.

What the court said was true and profound. It also means that this case will not be hung up in the third circuit Court. It moves straight on to the SCOTUS which has been the destination all along. I'm guessing that they didn't present much evidence and deserved the rebuke. But this involves at least 5 states and few surprises that might involve all of them. That is why it needs to be done in the SCOTUS.

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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:49 pm

Yeah, that's been Trump's plan since long before the election; pack the Supreme Court in hopes that he can use them circumvent the will of the people. The big problem is that his team's evidence will be just as non-existent when it is reviewed by the SCOTUS. If they had anything significant they wouldn't be holding onto it like some kind of secret weapon to be deployed at the last moment. Trump's mode of operation has always been, "you won't believe what amazing thing I'm just about to roll out." And then it never comes. If this does end up before SCOTUS they are highly unlikely to make any kind of Trump won / Biden won ruling. They will review the merit and rulings of previous cases and I think we can have confidence that, despite Trump's efforts to taint the court, they will see the same non-evidence that everyone else is seeing, especially in the wake of this latest blow in Pennsylvania.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:51 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:42 pm
How many can say, Donald Trump is my president?
Donald Trump is my president! But not for much longer.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:11 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:51 pm
SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:42 pm
How many can say, Donald Trump is my president?
Donald Trump is my president! But not for much longer.
I am so freaking proud of you. You have restored My Hope in humanity.

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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:35 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:11 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:51 pm
SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:42 pm
How many can say, Donald Trump is my president?
Donald Trump is my president! But not for much longer.
I am so freaking proud of you. You have restored My Hope in humanity.
Donald Trump won fair and square in 2016. It's a matter of fact, not personal conviction. Not my favorite guy, as you can tell, but it's not up to me. It was the choice that we made as a nation. I'm not in love with Joe Biden, but he won fair and square in 2020, and he will be my president for at least the next four years.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

shrugged
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by shrugged » Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:13 am

Donald Trump is THE President. Does that count? I don’t really like the sound of “my President” for any past, current, or possible future President. Something strangely submissive or paternalistic about it that doesn’t sit right with me.


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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:21 am

shrugged wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:13 am
Donald Trump is THE President. Does that count? I don’t really like the sound of “my President” for any past, current, or possible future President. Something strangely submissive or paternalistic about it that doesn’t sit right with me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nope, it doesn't count. A president is supported to be accepted as "our" president, and not just that "the" president. We accept the winner of the vote as OUR leader, not just THE leader.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:27 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:35 am
SaidNobody wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:11 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:51 pm

Donald Trump is my president! But not for much longer.
I am so freaking proud of you. You have restored My Hope in humanity.
Donald Trump won fair and square in 2016. It's a matter of fact, not personal conviction. Not my favorite guy, as you can tell, but it's not up to me. It was the choice that we made as a nation. I'm not in love with Joe Biden, but he won fair and square in 2020, and he will be my president for at least the next four years.
Yeah, ::blushes:: it is a fact. But a lot of people didn't accept it. The Russian Hoax was complete BS, but it was an intentional effort to take him out of office. But they cheated even in 2016. They act all "stupid" like we don't know how we got it so wrong. They thought that they had it in the bag.

Here is one of the features of fraud in Georgia and this stuff has been happening for years. Here is a short clip of what will be in one of the law suites.

https://www.godlikeproductions.com/foru ... r=Continue

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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:28 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:21 am
We accept the winner of the vote as OUR leader, not just THE leader.
I'm glad to hear that you will be getting on board with Joe Biden, SN!
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:35 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:28 am
SaidNobody wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:21 am
We accept the winner of the vote as OUR leader, not just THE leader.
I'm glad to hear that you will be getting on board with Joe Biden, SN!
Ahh, very clever trap you caught me in. But first, Joe Biden didn't win and has a 98% chance of not be sworn in. Secord, the precedent has been set that if we don't like the guy we can scream "not my president" which is a choice I would exercise if that scary 2% happens.

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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:44 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:35 am
Hagoth wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:28 am
SaidNobody wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:21 am
We accept the winner of the vote as OUR leader, not just THE leader.
I'm glad to hear that you will be getting on board with Joe Biden, SN!
Ahh, very clever trap you caught me in. But first, Joe Biden didn't win and has a 98% chance of not be sworn in. Secord, the precedent has been set that if we don't like the guy we can scream "not my president" which is a choice I would exercise if that scary 2% happens.
It wasn't a trap. It was an expectation that you don't hold everyone else to standards that you don't hold yourself. But if/when Biden is actually is sworn in you will have no problem calling him "my president," right?

You are starting to convince me that you are really just trolling. I mean, if you really believe what you are saying then you have to admit that Trump utterly failed you. He promised to make America great again, but you're telling me that he couldn't even make it great enough that there could be an honest election? Whoa. There was an honest election four years ago during the "corrupt" Obama administration when Trump won, but when it was Trump's turn at the tiller he failed so badly at "draining the swamp" that he couldn't even maintain THAT minimum basic American standard? What a disastrous calamity of leadership!

Trump appointed a cybersecurity official to ensure that our elections weren't tampered with. Christopher Krebs did his job so well that Trump had to fire him because he was more loyal to the truth than he was to Trump. If you think about it, by declaring the election fair Krebs verified that Trump did a good enough job at keeping America great to at least have a fair election, and I'd say that is the pretty much the minimum requirement of a great country, wouldn't you?

But this country was already great despite all the horrible things Trump was saying about it, and it will continue to be great despite his attempt to turn us against each other for his own gain. Trump tried to do exactly what he is accusing Biden of doing. He failed. No evidence. You don't need to argue with me about it, you need to take it up with the Republican lawmakers, judges and election officials who had the integrity tonot sell themselves our for the sake of political allegiance. We need to put this embarrassing chapter behind us and move forward. Either you or I will need to do some real soul searching and reevaluation of our methods of epistemology after January 20, SN. I'm up for it. Are you?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:01 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:44 pm
Either you or I will need to do some real soul searching and reevaluation of our methods of epistemology after January 20, SN. I'm up for it. Are you?
I never thought I was trolling you even though I am willing to admit I am a troll at heart. We call Trump papa troll.

However, I didn't feel that I was being a troll here. I usually am not. As I genuinely like you guys.

I will say that I don't think you really understand how bad millions of Americans think this is.

I would happily argue or debate all the points that you brought up except for one small problem, you don't believe in Trump's catchphrase "fake news."

People started noticing problems with the media many years ago. Maybe even picked it up in the 70s. But it is no longer for the people or even of the people. I could ask you honestly doesn't it surprise you that mainstream media has never been able to say one good thing about Trump? Now I know that you might think that it is actually that bad but he is far from it. He is a billionaire to understands the systems of the world better than any person I know. But he said it on the Oprah Winfrey show 30+ years ago.

I can't say that it is all a linear story and that I understand it completely. But we believe that since the time of John F Kennedy that the elections have been rigged. Of course the method has changed over the years. But there is evidence that Lyndon B Johnson actually had John F Kennedy assassinated. John F Kennedy was different than the others and may have slipped through their system. They put one of their hardcore Dixiecrats, Lyndon B Johnson in his vice president. Ronald Reagan was the other one who slipped through and they put the former director of the CIA and is his vice president. Some suspect Bush might have orchestrated the attempts on Reagan's life.

Even when Republicans took the White House many are no longer convinced that it was a fair election. All of the presidents up until Trump have supported One World Government. I vaguely believe that George Bush Jr was a good guy but he was an idiot. He tried to speak up once about something he believed in and the press attacked him so viciously that he left him stunned and quiet in the white house for weeks. Something that Bill Clinton said to George Bush was to watch out for the media and to sort of go along with them. George Bush's exit interview he was asked what surprised him the most. He said that it surprised him how much power the media had . I genuinely believe that George Bush Jr was a pawn of sorts. We went to war and someone robbed America blind. We might be up to about 11 trillion dollars spent on that campaign so far and the sad thing was that it wasn't even necessary. there never were any weapons of mass destruction.

The media made it their full-time job to make Trump look as bad as they could. And so it is confusing to rational people how anyone could be a trump supporter. But I can promise you that those of us that support Trump do it from our heart and our soul. If we are going to have an America that he has to win. Hillary was supposed to win last time and didn't so the entire deep State freaked out. They spent four years attacking Trump with everything they had. So you can imagine why we think he is blessed of God because he has gone through more than any human could have survived that we know of.

The bottom line of this though is, Joe Biden will never be my president in nor will, Harris. And I don't feel morally conflicted in saying that. Kamala openly supported a charge of rape of Joe Biden. Yet somehow he picked her as his running mate. These leaders were bought and paid for and installed to take over. And no I'm not the only one who thinks that.

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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:33 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:01 pm
But there is evidence that Lyndon B Johnson actually had John F Kennedy assassinated.
Wait a minute. Trump told me it was Ted Cruz's dad!

I don't doubt the sincerity of Trump voters at all, and they shouldn't doubt deeply heartfelt sincerity of people who cannot in good conscience support him. I was willing to give Trump a chance but I feel like he failed me. I'm sorry that you can't at least give Joe Biden a chance. Not that you or I have any say in anything.

I was able to survive the past four years and I have confidence that you can do that too. The fear mongers will always find new things to rage about and new ways to sell advertising time, and the world will go on, and somehow we'll avert the ever-impending apocalypse of the week.

I don't believe the shrill Right and Left voices represent most Americans. Americans are good people who are a lot less extreme and inflexible than their portrayal in the media. Of the millions of people who voted for either Trump or Biden most are moving on to concerns about practical details of their lives or what's new on Netflix this week.

We will be fine as long as we care more about each other than the manufactured boogeymen of the angry screamers from either extreme.

inthenameofjesuschristamen.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:11 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:33 pm

Wait a minute. Trump told me it was Ted Cruz's dad!

I don't doubt the sincerity of Trump voters at all, and they shouldn't doubt deeply heartfelt sincerity of people who cannot in good conscience support him. I was willing to give Trump a chance but I feel like he failed me. I'm sorry that you can't at least give Joe Biden a chance. Not that you or I have any say in anything.

I was able to survive the past four years and I have confidence that you can do that too. The fear mongers will always find new things to rage about and new ways to sell advertising time, and the world will go on, and somehow we'll avert the ever-impending apocalypse of the week.

I don't believe the shrill Right and Left voices represent most Americans. Americans are good people who are a lot less extreme and inflexible than their portrayal in the media. Of the millions of people who voted for either Trump or Biden most are moving on to concerns about practical details of their lives or what's new on Netflix this week.

We will be fine as long as we care more about each other than the manufactured boogeymen of the angry screamers from either extreme.

inthenameofjesuschristamen.
It has been known for many years that Jackie Kennedy believed that it was Lyndon B Johnson. I haven't read through all of her statements but she had a pretty solid case that coming from a different point of view is almost exactly the same as mine. If Trump is saying that Ted Cruz's dad did it then he is either messing with us, lying, or someone else's lying, or dead cruises dad was somehow in on Johnson's plan. I don't know.

I'm glad that you understand your position. A lot of people don't. Like you there are many that would or could not imagine that there are people so evil in our country that would intentionally try to harm us.

But there are classes of citizens that are extremely suspicious and attentive to what has happened. It doesn't mean that they are right, but if you want to compare the principles of being alert versus accepting whatever comes, I like to be alert.

I would be curious how Trump failed you. Did you have some expectations that were not fulfilled? Or did you become offended at his technique?

Back in 2007 through a comedy of errors I ended up on the clubhouse floor at the Ritz-Carlton in Washington DC. I was sitting in the lobby listening to some rich arabs, one seemed like a prince, practicing my Arabic language skills. Suddenly Joe Biden came in and they began to talk about deals. It sounded pretty shady. And then when it got really shady Joe Biden invited them to go back to his room to finish the deal.

I called my wife and in Good humor told her about the corruption that I had just witnessed in Washington DC. why would a senator of Delaware be making deals with Richards at near 10:00 at night in a fancy hotel? If this was official state business this was not the right place for it. I have never trusted Joe Biden. There are many reasons why I don't. It isn't about his style however or his easy-going manner. It's that I have seen him do corruption and there is so much evidence of it on the TV and in the archives that it is scary.

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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:01 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:11 am
It has been known for many years that Jackie Kennedy believed that it was Lyndon B Johnson.
Trump said President Kennedy was assassinated by Ted Cruz's dad Rafael Cruz. Was this just another one of Trump's unending series of lies?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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