Keeping up with Trump

Chat about a topic supported by books, TED Talks, podcasts, personal experience, philosophies of mankind mingled with humor (shout out to IOT), and maybe we’ll even do a google hangout or conference call once a month.
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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:44 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:12 pm
Today's news:

Mitch McConnell admitted today that he holds President Trump at least partly responsible for the assault on the capital. McConnell said, “The mob was fed lies. They were provoked by the president and other powerful people. And they tried to use fear and violence to stop a specific proceeding of the first branch of the federal government which they did not like.”
McConnell is on our "traitors list." He begged Trump for help because Dems had his numbers. Trump came to his rescue and almost instantly McConnell turned on him. McConnell never liked the president, but to Trump, having Schumer as Leader was worse. It couldn't be helped. It is because of McConnell you hear the term, "Republican Party is dead." We will not unify under his leadership. Our representatives, the people we put into office locally will be forced to support someone else, or lose our support.

hmb
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by hmb » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:35 am

Whew!!! Out with the old, in with the new (older, but new)!! Keeping up with Trump will continue as following all the legal action that may come his way. I hope the TRUTH will have him face what ever consequences he deserves. The truth meaning real facts. This isn't about revenge, but consequences for his alleged crimes. Time will tell, and hopefully aid in healing.

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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:05 am

"Democracy has prevailed."

Trump or Nixon, which will be remembered in another generation as the worst president?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:51 pm

hmb wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:35 am
Whew!!! Out with the old, in with the new (older, but new)!! Keeping up with Trump will continue as following all the legal action that may come his way. I hope the TRUTH will have him face what ever consequences he deserves. The truth meaning real facts. This isn't about revenge, but consequences for his alleged crimes. Time will tell, and hopefully aid in healing.
It's funny that you say it's not about revenge. Because you want him to face "whatever consequences" but I've yet to hear a crime. And on top of that, formers presidents cannot be convicted of anything they did during office. So if it isn't hate and revenge, what do you think he should be punished by?

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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:12 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:51 pm
...but I've yet to hear a crime.
Maybe because you simply write off anyone who accuses him as a liar or a traitor? For starters he was just impeached for inciting an insurrection against the government of the United States.

He'll have his hands full with civil and state courts anyway.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:05 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:12 pm
SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:51 pm
...but I've yet to hear a crime.
Maybe because you simply write off anyone who accuses him as a liar or a traitor? For starters he was just impeached for inciting an insurrection against the government of the United States.

He'll have his hands full with civil and state courts anyway.
Accusations aren't crimes. The Impeachment was an act of hatred. He asked the people to walk to the Capitol and make their "voice heard."

If that is inciting violence, I got no defence.

Cnsl1
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Cnsl1 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:29 pm

You can call it sunk cost, cog dis, or plain ol' stubbornness, but some people will refuse to change their tune in spite of overwhelming evidence, and will go straight down with a sinking ship, all the while claiming they are on a big ol' jet airliner.

There's just one person on here who has clearly stated they will never change their mind, regardless of whatever evidence there may be. I suppose if Trump himself got on national TV and admitted he stretched the truth and outright made up stuff about the election being rigged, there are some die hard true blue trumpers (or maybe they should be called true red trumpers--TRTs) who will refuse to believe him and assert that he's just saying that to fool the Dems, or that Antifa finally injected him with a drug. To take a Mormon story, Laman... WTH? You've seen an angel and he beat you with a stick, and you still don't believe?

Yeah I know, Laman says that was really Sam dressed in an angel outfit, and to his credit fiction is fiction is fiction, but you get my Cleopatric point. Denial denial.

It reminds me of the experiment where researchers had two groups of people--one group who believed in ESP and one who did not--watch a rigged setting where a person claiming to have ESP make guesses as to a hidden card. It was rigged so that the guesses hit correct at a significantly higher rate than chance would predict. Not surprisingly, the group who believed in ESP felt the high success rate verified their belief. The unbelieving group tended to change their belief in the face of the evidence, saying that maybe they were wrong, and maybe there was something to ESP.

Researchers also flipped the experiment and had the person with ESP make guesses at a rate a little less than chance. In this condition, those who did not believe in ESP maintained that belief, as the evidence supported their belief. Surprisingly, however, the group who believed in ESP did NOT change their belief based on the new evidence, but rather used the occasional random correct guesses as evidence to support their a priori beliefs.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:43 pm

It is really frustrating to some that they cannot control what I think.

I have worked to explain that we don't believe because it's true, we believe to MAKE IT TRUE.

It's almost like you have never been to Disney World.

The only reason we are not just naked monkeys is because we "believe" we are different.

I believe in God. But to me, god is real. God is real in my mind. God motivates me, loves me, inspires me, gives me hope.

Atheists try to imply that humans are the Supreme being. The real supreme being is in the head of humans. And they want to argue with me. Why?

Really, God is the process of creating space in our mind for the magic of the universe to work. We know that if you cannot believe you cannot do it. God gives us the ability to believe anything.

I will take my chance with God before I would trust all humanity.

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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Reuben » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:24 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:43 pm
It is really frustrating to some that they cannot control what I think.

I have worked to explain that we don't believe because it's true, we believe to MAKE IT TRUE.
I understand this and agree with you. We make reality by believing in a different one.

I also think it's a good idea to distinguish between things we can make true by believing in them and things we can't make true. (Or, with things that can only be influenced, determine the degree to which our belief can make them true.)
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:06 am

Reuben wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:24 am
SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:43 pm
It is really frustrating to some that they cannot control what I think.

I have worked to explain that we don't believe because it's true, we believe to MAKE IT TRUE.
I understand this and agree with you. We make reality by believing in a different one.

I also think it's a good idea to distinguish between things we can make true by believing in them and things we can't make true. (Or, with things that can only be influenced, determine the degree to which our belief can make them true.)
The beauty of antimony, and America, is that no one has the right to make that distinguishment for you. I mean, the Wright Brothers were told they were "believing" beyond Human Ability. Or Tesla. Or Edward Leedskalnin, (still freaking us out with Coral Castle). We have put people on the moon. When and where did someone get permission to believe that was possible?

You do what you think is possible. Others do what they think is possible, and I'm sure you recognize that it isn't the same thing.

When God tells us, "Have faith, Believe," he didn't really give us a set of parameters.

A spiritual teacher once told me that God, (yes, the all-powerful being) works through channels of possibility. As you said, it's OK to know your boundaries. In a world of multiple dimensions, God can do amazing things. Like, maybe you are in a desert dying of thirst. You pray, but god cannot find anyone close enough, that will hear your call, so you die. There wasn't an open channel for God to get help to you within the possibilities of your faith.

In my hometown a few years back, 5 teenagers were some 60-80 miles into the AZ strip, drinking, being reckless. They rolled the car. One was killed immediately, one got out and started walking to get help. Three were pinned. They began to pray. Someone back home got a bad feeling and began looking for them. It took a while to find them, about 6 hours. Only one survived, having been pinned between two others, didn't freeze to death. It was a horrible tragedy, but would have been worst if someone hadn't "heard the call."

This kind of faith has worked hundreds of times for me. But, it works because I believe in it. I can feel someone's "need" without being in the house with them, or even in the same state. Not to mention we now have cellphones, video conferences, etc, to connect to each other.

When we believe, God begins to work on it. It doesn't mean it is possible right now. How long ago did humans dream of standing on the moon. Did it start with curiosity? Or maybe worship? Maybe fiction?

This is where "proof of God" is obvious to me. If we were just stupid monkeys, would our desires and beliefs have shaped that reality to put us into space? We are making plans to go to Mars. No, something with the ability to form ideas out of nothing and then clad those ideas with possibilities, compounding and staking those possibilities until we are launching for other planets is within us. It is supernatural.

That is why God says, "believe." If it is possible, he will make it happen. Some things take more time. Some things take more faith. Not all things are possible within our limited time. But that doesn't mean God stops working on them. The desire of humans is magic. It can be passed on or spread out. The dream/faith/desire/hope is passed from generation to generation. One family can hold civilizations together for many years.

Anyway, I sort of agree with you. When my daughter was 4 she wanted me (I'm handy) to build a robot to do all of mommy's work. It pained me to tell her I couldn't do it. She was genuinely surprised. I was unworthy of her faith. She has adjusted her expectations several times. But I don't ever tell her, "be realistic." She is dabbling in witchcraft. Has herbs lining her window seal. Thinks playing with the ouija board in the cemetery with her friends is good times.

Anyway, belief creates pathways not only in our brain but in society. If someone is actually hurting society, I might disapprove, but it's hard to tell what is painful or just advancement.

hmb
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by hmb » Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:23 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:51 pm
hmb wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:35 am
Whew!!! Out with the old, in with the new (older, but new)!! Keeping up with Trump will continue as following all the legal action that may come his way. I hope the TRUTH will have him face what ever consequences he deserves. The truth meaning real facts. This isn't about revenge, but consequences for his alleged crimes. Time will tell, and hopefully aid in healing.
It's funny that you say it's not about revenge. Because you want him to face "whatever consequences" but I've yet to hear a crime. And on top of that, formers presidents cannot be convicted of anything they did during office. So if it isn't hate and revenge, what do you think he should be punished by?
I have an incarcerated child. She did the crime and is now doing the time. Her sentence is not about revenge but about justice. I care for her. I will not disown her. To her credit, she admits to her actions landed her where she is. So justice =/= revenge. There's a difference and maybe you have a problem understanding the ability to differentiate the two.

I do not like DJT as an individual nor as a former president. I don't like what he did, didn't do, said, or created. I do not hate him, though I do not like him. Consequences follow everyone regardless of their actions are good or bad. Unfortunately, there are times people get away with a lot of dirty deeds. My point is that if DJT is convicted of anything, the consequences of his actions are his own, and he should face "whatever consequences" are coming to him. You've yet to hear a crime because the courts are just warming up, now that he's out of office. I am capable of feeling justified without feeling revengeful. Perhaps you should check your own ego, conscience, heart, or whatever makes you tick, for melding the two, and dismissing MY thoughts.

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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:40 am

hmb wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:23 am
SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:51 pm
hmb wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:35 am
Whew!!! Out with the old, in with the new (older, but new)!! Keeping up with Trump will continue as following all the legal action that may come his way. I hope the TRUTH will have him face what ever consequences he deserves. The truth meaning real facts. This isn't about revenge, but consequences for his alleged crimes. Time will tell, and hopefully aid in healing.
It's funny that you say it's not about revenge. Because you want him to face "whatever consequences" but I've yet to hear a crime. And on top of that, formers presidents cannot be convicted of anything they did during office. So if it isn't hate and revenge, what do you think he should be punished by?
I have an incarcerated child. She did the crime and is now doing the time. Her sentence is not about revenge but about justice. I care for her. I will not disown her. To her credit, she admits to her actions landed her where she is. So justice =/= revenge. There's a difference and maybe you have a problem understanding the ability to differentiate the two.

I do not like DJT as an individual nor as a former president. I don't like what he did, didn't do, said, or created. I do not hate him, though I do not like him. Consequences follow everyone regardless of their actions are good or bad. Unfortunately, there are times people get away with a lot of dirty deeds. My point is that if DJT is convicted of anything, the consequences of his actions are his own, and he should face "whatever consequences" are coming to him. You've yet to hear a crime because the courts are just warming up, now that he's out of office. I am capable of feeling justified without feeling revengeful. Perhaps you should check your own ego, conscience, heart, or whatever makes you tick, for melding the two, and dismissing MY thoughts.
You gave me the definition of hatred in your description of Donald Trump. Which really means to reject and to have a strong dislike for a person or thing. And then you told me that you did not hate him. This is the incongruity that I struggle with.

Presidents and former presidents have complete immunity to anything they do while in office. This was done on purpose. You cannot put a person into a job that the entire country's well-being and perhaps life depends upon, and then tell them they might get prosecuted for a choice that they make.

In spite of my fellow conservatives often chanting to lock up Obama, but usually just Hillary who is not a president, you cannot prosecute a former president. If they had taken 50 kids out and killed them personally you couldn't prosecute them. It's just the way our laws are written. You could impeach him and then anything he did from there would be like any other citizen. But in spite of the impeachments he was never removed from office and therefore never lost his immunity.

And I'm just trying to figure out what action people think was a crime. Even though he can't be prosecuted, I'm just interested in what action he did that someone would consider a crime if someone else had done it? Did he destroy documents? Did he sell weapons illegally to drug lords or other terrorist groups? Did he assassinate a general of a foreign country who was attacking one of our embassies? Did he impose a sanctions on a country who was ripping us off? Did he build a wall on a border that every president for the last 50 years has promised to do? Did he demand nations pay their part NATO? Did he cut regulations and taxes?

I'm just curious what thing he did that could be considered a crime?

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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:30 am

I guess this is pretty much the last nail in the Q coffin too. Or at least it should be. Qanon folks were getting pretty accustomed to inventing elaborate apologetics to explain why Q's pronouncements were consistently wrong, but Trump finally accepting his defeat kind of brings everything crashing down.

It was a pretty sad day for the Proud Boys too. They are now speaking out against Trump as "weak" and "a total failure."
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:23 am

Hagoth wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:30 am
I guess this is pretty much the last nail in the Q coffin too. Or at least it should be. Qanon folks were getting pretty accustomed to inventing elaborate apologetics to explain why Q's pronouncements were consistently wrong, but Trump finally accepting his defeat kind of brings everything crashing down.

It was a pretty sad day for the Proud Boys too. They are now speaking out against Trump as "weak" and "a total failure."
Some people don't take disappointment well. It's a symptom of unrealistic expectations. I had hope. I still have hope. But I understand that hope is not a promise. I don't expect it to be. Hope does a number of things for us. 1) helps us be patient. 2) helps to keep us from losing it. 3) helps us stay ready and prepared if something should lean in our direction.

I felt some disappointment yesterday. But I wasn't like that viral clip of that person dropping to their knees and screaming in pain when Trump took his oath. I just muted the computer and played with my dog.

It's hard to know where Qanon is, or who is just faking it. I haven't found a source of info that made me trust it. But there is some compelling evidence published by Qanon supporters.

Even though things seemly didn't go as Qanon implied yesterday, I don't think this is over. There is "actual" evidence that will have to be dealt with, or the pushers of it killed. Like the Hunter Laptop, the Ukrainian Prosecutor, the $1.5Billion in Chinese equity, Ashley's Diary, and so much more. They have literally should down conservative accounts, publishing platforms, and launched lawsuits to shut down or arrest other conservative voices.

Trump knew this, you know the thing, early on and I just hope (that word again) that he did something about it. Otherwise, we just launched the new Nazi party. I don't hate Biden, but listening to him is annoying. Harris annoys me for other reasons and I almost hate her, she arrested parents because their kids wouldn't go to school. My parents would have had life in prison over me.

Qanon seemly has disappointed us, but he/she/it/they have also given us hope. Not everyone will survive the disappointment, but an "awakening" has started. I actually intend to get more involved, not less.

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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by hmb » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:53 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:40 am
hmb wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:23 am
SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:51 pm


It's funny that you say it's not about revenge. Because you want him to face "whatever consequences" but I've yet to hear a crime. And on top of that, formers presidents cannot be convicted of anything they did during office. So if it isn't hate and revenge, what do you think he should be punished by?
I have an incarcerated child. She did the crime and is now doing the time. Her sentence is not about revenge but about justice. I care for her. I will not disown her. To her credit, she admits to her actions landed her where she is. So justice =/= revenge. There's a difference and maybe you have a problem understanding the ability to differentiate the two.

I do not like DJT as an individual nor as a former president. I don't like what he did, didn't do, said, or created. I do not hate him, though I do not like him. Consequences follow everyone regardless of their actions are good or bad. Unfortunately, there are times people get away with a lot of dirty deeds. My point is that if DJT is convicted of anything, the consequences of his actions are his own, and he should face "whatever consequences" are coming to him. You've yet to hear a crime because the courts are just warming up, now that he's out of office. I am capable of feeling justified without feeling revengeful. Perhaps you should check your own ego, conscience, heart, or whatever makes you tick, for melding the two, and dismissing MY thoughts.
You gave me the definition of hatred in your description of Donald Trump. Which really means to reject and to have a strong dislike for a person or thing. And then you told me that you did not hate him. This is the incongruity that I struggle with.

I think our definition of hate vs dislike is just different. They are along a similar line, but I believe hate is much more passionate and time consuming of emotion, often causing revengeful thinking. So if your definition of hate is the same as dislike, then I understand why you would say that I hate Trump. I just don't think the same way.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:19 am

hmb wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:53 am
SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:40 am
hmb wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:23 am


I have an incarcerated child. She did the crime and is now doing the time. Her sentence is not about revenge but about justice. I care for her. I will not disown her. To her credit, she admits to her actions landed her where she is. So justice =/= revenge. There's a difference and maybe you have a problem understanding the ability to differentiate the two.

I do not like DJT as an individual nor as a former president. I don't like what he did, didn't do, said, or created. I do not hate him, though I do not like him. Consequences follow everyone regardless of their actions are good or bad. Unfortunately, there are times people get away with a lot of dirty deeds. My point is that if DJT is convicted of anything, the consequences of his actions are his own, and he should face "whatever consequences" are coming to him. You've yet to hear a crime because the courts are just warming up, now that he's out of office. I am capable of feeling justified without feeling revengeful. Perhaps you should check your own ego, conscience, heart, or whatever makes you tick, for melding the two, and dismissing MY thoughts.
You gave me the definition of hatred in your description of Donald Trump. Which really means to reject and to have a strong dislike for a person or thing. And then you told me that you did not hate him. This is the incongruity that I struggle with.

I think our definition of hate vs dislike is just different. They are along a similar line, but I believe hate is much more passionate and time-consuming of emotion, often causing revengeful thinking. So if your definition of hate is the same as dislike, then I understand why you would say that I hate Trump. I just don't think the same way.
I've been accused of being too argumentative, so this is only an invitation to explain the difference.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hate

I only push the point because many on the Left think that they are somehow above Hatred. Warren Jeffs had his entire cult addicted to the words "Keep Sweet" but they rejected every non-believer with a passion. They avoided family, friends, and neighbors all while parroting the phrase "Keep Sweet." And when I say avoid, they would pretend you weren't standing there or didn't just offer your hand in good-greetings.

My experience with the Left has been a lot like that. You guys are cooler (NOM is nicer) than most, but you wouldn't believe how often I will point out the hate and they say, "that is impossible, I don't hate."

I often appear a hypocrite because there are things I don't really hate. I hate what is happening to our government. I reject it. I strongly and passionately dislike it. But my governor (PA) seems like a nice guy, the Lt Governor looks like a hardcore thug that recently escaped from prison, but I'm not sure about him. I've heard him say things I believe are bad, mean, even hateful, but so do a lot of people.

I try not to hate people because I honestly believe people are doing the best they can given the circumstances. But hopefully, if I'm displaying hate I'm not too shy to claim it.

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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:48 pm

Here is a quote that really hit home with me this week:

“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”

― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956

If I remember correctly Solzhenitsyn also describes that line as constantly moving back and forth in response to things we experience. For some of us the line may tug in one direction and for some in the other, but I think this describes the the common human experience, probably as the result of millions of years living in small insular groups that have to look out for each other whenever the threat of Others appears. And it is something that can be manipulated and magnified to take advantage.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:24 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:48 pm
Here is a quote that really hit home with me this week:

“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”

― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956

If I remember correctly Solzhenitsyn also describes that line as constantly moving back and forth in response to things we experience. For some of us the line may tug in one direction and for some in the other, but I think this describes the the common human experience, probably as the result of millions of years living in small insular groups that have to look out for each other whenever the threat of Others appears. And it is something that can be manipulated and magnified to take advantage.
Evil is the effort to avoid discomfort.

We want things. From the simple to the complex.

To be blocked/damned is frustrating and painful. We learn certain rules along the way that we agree to, like, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

But we become tempted. We take short cuts. Maybe we steal or murder. Our Consciousness pains us. We become conflicted by deciding between the pain of frustration or the pain of breaking the rules.

But humans have access to evil, (energy veil) which can block the pain of conscious, even the pain of frustration. We can deny or avoid. We can block with substances such as over eating or drinking. This is evil. Conscious will prick us if we go against our agreements. The system is self correcting, unless you block or deny the voice of God. This sort of blocking can lead to psychology behavior. This could be simply without information or heartless torturing.

Yes everyone has this sort of evil, more or less from person to person. But that is not what is going on here.

We both want the same thing. We want a strong and happy America.

Is there only one way to achieve this? Is one team taking shortcuts? It's kind of tricky to tell which team is causing unnecessary pain.

Cnsl1
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Cnsl1 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:26 pm

Presidents cannot do whatever they want, of course. We have a system of checks and balances between the three branches of government, though there are many who argue that the executive branch has slowly absorbed more power than the other two, particularly with the partisan selection of judges.

Also, Presidents can be tried for crimes after they are impeached. Former presidents can be tried for any crime committed after they are presidents. They don't get a free pass. They don't have their call and election made sure. Heh.

This is Gov 101.

That helps me understand you better, SN, when you say you believe because you want it to be true, which is a wonderful way to approach God and heaven, and good fortune and happiness, in my opinion. But relativity has limits--even for bleeding heart liberals. The earth is not flat, it revolves around the sun, and we need water to survive. If you delve into flat earth explanations and conspiracy theories, they might start to make a little sense until you understand the monumental evidence that the earth is a sphere.

The evidence is overwhelming. You can even see it for yourself using simple observational techniques. Yet some people still believe the impossible. The evidence does not sway them, which I find similar to many Trumpers when it comes to things like the election. I have come to understand that it's really not about the evidence, however. Like SN said, some will believe because that's what they want to believe, or that's what they hope is true. But I think most of these people (idk if SN falls in this crowd), believe because they do not trust. They have lost trust, or lost faith in people, especially authorities. Flat earthers do not trust that satellite photos, eye witness accounts, or multiple science experiments are true or trustworthy. Trumpers do not trust media. They do not trust authorities, unless the authorities are also distrusting and agreeing.. they only trust those who agree with them.

Somehow, current leaders need to regain some semblance of trust. There are some who probably never did and never will trust, but now they've been given a soap box, and like an avalanche have picked up followers of this fringe belief set. There is no doubt that a significant number of Americans have felt slighted, devalued, and underrepresented. But this time, it's the white people. Go figure. They may gloss it with coats of anti-socialism, but there's no mistaking the most angry ones are mostly white. That's just an observation. An awful lot of middle class white folks do not trust the system.

I don't think there's any convincing of these people with facts. It's going to take time, transparency, patience, and love unfeigned.

Unfortunately, there's also a lot of pissed off people ready to string these Trumpers up by the ears. Hopefully enough holding the middle truce ground will prevail. It could get dicey.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:55 pm

A president could be convicted of high treason. Such as maybe he foreign troops onto American soil that then took over a state or something. That is high treason.

The president is the government. He is the highest law enforcement in the government. He can be impeached.

The only way Donald Trump is guilty of any crimes is if you are filled with hatred. Him telling people to walk up to the Capitol building and let their voices be heard is not inciting violence. He even told them to do it peacefully. Barack Obama did far more to his side violence than Donald Trump ever did.

If you twist a couple of possibilities then maybe you could go after the former president. A short of high treason, the intentional and malicious betrayal of the nation, and there's nothing you can do.

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