Keeping up with Trump

[SaidNobody]

So, don't think of us as "enablers" but rather as sponsors.

The enablers I'm really trying to emphasize are the hypocritical politicians who sold their souls and dignity and still like to play at being Christians. They are not the "stupidest people on earth," just some of the most morally vacant.

If you can get people to vote for you by playing on their stupidity, more power to you. They get what they paid for. The problem is that they drag the slightly less stupid people along with them. An article today in the Times said the demographic that best describes Trump voters is poorly educated white people. It also noted that it's a demographic that is shrinking.

I love the "poorly educated" label we get. Because, you know, I'm poorly educated. I'm a high school drop out. Now, I don't think I'm stupid, exactly, but I'm not highly educated. I've worked with highly educated people, and I usually know when I am out of my league. But most "educated people" are not very smart. They really just accept the things they are taught without thinking about it.

When they do start to think, they usually realize they are really conservatives. But you have no idea how many times I've had discussions where people simply dismiss because they are more educated than me. But dismissing your fellow citizens, stupid or not, is stupid. They have a vote and voice that is just as valid as yours. But your comment, "poorly educated" has led many educated people to suggested that stupid people shouldn't be allowed to vote. Like, "let the smart people vote." But whether smart or dumb, we all experience life, and our perspective is just as valid, for our world, as anyone else's. So, in other words, if killing unborn children disturbs us, there is nothing you can say makes it untrue.

Imagine you have a camera CCD, and some pixels detect something really bright and other things detect something dark. Individually they don't know what they are looking at, but when you put it all together maybe it's a star in the night sky.

I know that I cannot understand all of Life, so I am open to other people's perspectives. But I have pondered and considered enough perspectives that I am don't feel stupid. I understand Life as well as anyone else, without the Master's Degree.

[Hagoth]

But your comment, "poorly educated" has led many educated people to suggested that stupid people shouldn't be allowed to vote.

I think you totally misread my comment, SaidNobody. That was the Times summation of who votes for Trump based on simple and easily obtained data about race and education level. I believe it was actually you who used the word stupid for Trump's voters, and that he saw that as a way to take advantage of them. I do not equate education with intelligence. Some of the most brilliant and accomplished people in history, some of my personal heroes, had little or no formal education. And there are waaaaay too many boneheaded PhDs out there. The real value of a college education is that it makes you confront and internalize ideas that you may find uncomfortable, unfamiliar, even scary, and helps you learn how to find and recognize reliable sources of information. That has nothing to do with intelligence.

The Times also observed that the uneducated white population is shrinking, and that's ok by me. In fact, I wish we had such mixed ethnicity in this country that you could no longer even identify a person as "white," so that whole ridiculous misconception would go away.

But I stand by my evaluation of the war on Christmas as just plain stupid.

[moksha]

I think the quality that runs through many Trump supporters is gullibility rather than lack of intelligence. They have fallen for the hucksterism of Trump and can't break their trance. Of course, others in the Trump base are attracted to things such as pro-white nationalist attitudes.

Because, you know, I'm poorly educated. I'm a high school drop out.

Formal education is overrated. Adults can become better educated by watching the nighttime shows on PBS.

[Hagoth]

They have fallen for the hucksterism of Trump and can't break their trance.

Or are emotionally doubling-down in the face of facts, as many of us saw ourselves do when we were confronted with evidence that our religious convictions were misplaced.

[SaidNobody]

They have fallen for the hucksterism of Trump and can't break their trance.

Or are emotionally doubling-down in the face of facts, as many of us saw ourselves do when we were confronted with evidence that our religious convictions were misplaced.

This statement is sort of what I have been battling in these forums for years. (Nothing personal)

There are facts and there is faith.

Facts are already settled beliefs.
Faith is a vision of things to come.

In Mormonism were we taught, "faith is evidence of things unseen."

So, we put our faith in things like marriage, community, courage, parenthood, etc. These are things that can ONLY exist if you believe in them. So Republicans (currently synonymous with Trump supporters) are not so much gullible as willing to work with things unseen. So their prayers for God to save our nation is manifesting in Donald Trump. To them, all of this is exactly what they asked for and they are not "gullible" at all.

The fundamental difference between Conservatives and Liberals is how they interpret Gandhi's phrase: "Be the change you want to see in the world." For conservatives, this means, "take responsibility for your actions and your life, be the type person you would like to meet in others." For liberals, this means, "go out and change everyone to be the way you want them to be." Which leads to boycotting, canceling, shaming, etc.

Not to say that conservatives don't do some that too, but mostly, they just want to be treated as they treat others. Shunning is an ancient method of passive-aggressive attacks on people, but not as harmful as actually attacking people.

Everyone wants to be good, even if it's good at being bad. Liberals, I notice, want to help other people and are willing to give their resources to the less fortunate. But it's not just their resources, it's everybody else's resources. It's like a parent that soothes a crying child by taking a toy from the content child and giving it to the crying child. You might argue that if the content child has more than their share, that is cool, but if the content child went out and made his own toys (as is mostly the case with Americans) then it's unjust.

Conservatives also believe that personal experience is better than doing it for the person in need. So, many conservative people are more willing to watch other people struggle if they are learning life lessons. There is working together, but then there is doing it for them, which leaves them unprepared.

There are somethings I think conservatives have forgotten their roots on. The conservative philosophy started back in France in the mid-late 1700s. It was basically Liberian philosophy, but with a twist. Conservatives believed in the separation of Church and State. Sort of what this meant was that some things are church matters and that somethings are state matters. But never, not even for a second, did this mean a culture didn't need a church. What it meant was that some things, mostly matters of faith and make-believe, could be taken out of the government. In the debates, conservatives sat on the Right Side of the chamber, and other libertarians on the Left Side. These labels persist.

France rejected the conservative philosophy, (they had just gone their own revolution) and wanted to keep the church more within the control of the government. In those debates were some American founding fathers like Benjamin Franklin, (can't remember the others.) He brought the philosophy to America where we were able to use the philosophy to be more accepting of other faiths. But still, it just meant the faith matters were practiced outside of the "state."

The Left has always wanted and continues to try, to bring faith matters back into the state. Now, the funny part of that is the many Left thinkers don't really like church. They want the state to administer over things like marriage, church, beliefs, etc. Like for example, "does your God tell you that are you special, chosen? It's not true, so stop saying it."

Communism is an example of the state taking over matters of faith and church. In fact, they don't even allow the idea that they are separate. They might "offer free speech" but it is THEM giving it. We get many of our rights from church and use the state to regulate our interactions. That is why you often hear conservatives say, "my God-given rights." That phrase literally confuses many liberals.

Anyway, I don't see conservatives as gullible. They know what they need and what they want. And Trump, on his mission to Make American Great Again, offered to give it to them, if they would vote for him. We accepted.

[Hagoth]

Right on, bro.

Just as you have objections with "facts and truth," I have objections with Conservatives and Liberals. Most people are just people.

[SaidNobody]

Right on, bro.

Just as you have objections with "facts and truth," I have objections with Conservatives and Liberals. Most people are just people.

Fair enough. I fully understand that some people think that their version of ideas, such as facts and truth, is more factual or truthful than others.

There are two types of people in the world. Those that are like other people and those that are different.

[Hagoth]

There are two types of people in the world...

...those who group everyone into two types and those who don't

[SaidNobody]

There are two types of people in the world...

...those who group everyone into two types and those who don't

It's such a binary world.

[moksha]

Here is an interesting video on the election from the perspective of retired BYU professor Frank Fox:

https://www.facebook.com/FrankWFoxAmeri ... 851209145/

[Hagoth]

Here is an interesting video on the election from the perspective of retired BYU professor Frank Fox:

https://www.facebook.com/FrankWFoxAmeri ... 851209145/

This is excellent. wish everyone who votes for Trump because they self-identify as "conservative," especially people like Mormons who claim to value honesty, integrity and love of country above others, could listen to this. "I bet my eternal salvation on it."

[SaidNobody]

Here is an interesting video on the election from the perspective of retired BYU professor Frank Fox:

https://www.facebook.com/FrankWFoxAmeri ... 851209145/

This is both sadly funny and complete BS.

On the matter of truthfulness. Trump has been called the worst liar of all times. I think some of the networks are keeping a tally of his lies. and without looking I think that number is somewhere around 25 to 30,000 lies that he has told.

Trump followers have a completely different view of the situation. If Trump says I have the best numbers in the world about something this or that, we can take with a certain amount of certainty that he could be wrong. He is boastful at the very least. John Bolton came out one morning and said that he quit. Trump came out and said he fired him. We don't care what the truth is.

Trump is the most honest President we have ever had. he says that he will do something and he puts his entire heart into doing that very thing. He said that he would do at least a dozen things that other presidents have promised to do. And he did them. Or he gave it his best effort and is still working on it.

What a lot of people consider to be lies we actually believe. The whole Russian dossier thing was a hoax. There is tons of evidence that proves that. Every time he came out and said that he had been spied on or the people had abused him the media claimed that it wasn't true. We believe it is. No because we are stupid and gullible but because we have seen evidence that is acceptable. James Comey lied about a half a dozen things and then admitted to intentionally trapping general Flynn. Peter struck said words that could only be interpreted as an intentional plot to derail the president.

There are several full-length documentaries going over the plots and the lies the Democrats tried to pull. We can watch on TV they're full hatred displayed in high definition.

While many people get on the camera and say Trump is destroying our democracy, most of his supporters believe the democracy has already been severely damaged because the Democrats wouldn't accept the outcome of the election. They spied on him and try to impeach him over absolutely nothing. And later it turns out that what he was trying to investigate in Ukraine was completely justified. the laptop from Hunter Biden has emails and now witnesses are coming forward we're also on the emails that he was taking money from foreign governments for favors.

All due respect to this gentle professor he is simply full of crap.

[Hagoth]

Here is an interesting video on the election from the perspective of retired BYU professor Frank Fox:

https://www.facebook.com/FrankWFoxAmeri ... 851209145/

This is both sadly funny and complete BS.

But it seems to be working. A non-LDS Trumper told my wife she heard that in General Conference members were told to vote for Biden.

The whole Russian dossier thing was a hoax.

Not according to last month's 1000 page Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee report.

[Cnsl1]

Oh my oh my.

Well prior to watching The Social Dilemma (and I've not watched it all quite yet, only about half cuz my wife wants to watch with me and we just haven't synced up) I had noticed the HUGE disparity of information even just from the news channels beside each other on my TV. I'd also noticed a HUGE difference in the information coming from the political radio talk shows. Being a political independent for years, I have always tried to gather my information from multiple sources, and especially as an election nears, to listen to one side with all their reasons and evidence, then to the other side, and try to make an informed choice (cuz God knows the independents don't even have a side in our binary red blue state). That worked for lots of years, but then something happened. Now the difference between the two sides has become a freaking gulf, so that it seems like what they're talking about isn't even in the same ballpark. I think this is one reason the debates have become asinine, from every perspective except those solidly entrenched into their polemic pigeonhole.

I understand confirmation bias, the belief bias effect, the fundamental attribution error, and cognitive dissonance, and how difficult it is to keep those things out. So, I really try to challenge my initial belief, I try to look for evidence that goes against what I think is right. I make an effort to avoid bias, to acknowledge the influence of other factors, etc. I'm not saying this to indicate how smart or progressive I am, but to underscore my next point, which is WTF happened?!

It seems like conservatives are from Mars and liberals are from Venus. We're not in the same ballpark. The differences that were once significant are now a holy WTF and completely off the charts. We don't even have politicians who can sit and discuss on a reasonable fashion.

So... This is what I have been noticing.

Then I started watching "The social Dilemma" on Netflix. That seems to explain this unprecedented divide. Kinda scares the crap out of you.. or should.

Trump is the biggest liar and greatest showman in the world or the best president we've ever had. Whatever opinion you take, you will find ample, nay, OVERWHELMING evidence to support it. But.. you cannot trust all the evidence you get because the evidence you receive is tailored towards your opinion. And when I say "you" I mean ALL of us with cell phones. I mean reporters, the "watchdogs" of society, the politicians, the teachers, the business leaders, the corporate execs, the professional athletes, the students, the celebs, the Q15, and your bishop. This is the era of misinformation.

[Apologeticsislying]

SaidNobody
Trump is the most honest President we have ever had. he says that he will do something and he puts his entire heart into doing that very thing.

The mind boggles.........

[SaidNobody]

This is the era of misinformation.

I expect my politicians to lie. Like seriously, when a politician is talking I'm just assuming that it is lies.

I was at Melania's rally here in PA today. Kellyann Conway announced that today, they published their Trump 1000th fulfilled promise.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/head ... mise-kept/

I don't judge politicians so much by what comes out of their mouth, but rather what they do. Obviously, I cannot vouch for all of these promises, but I can for some of them. Do you realize that it is difficult to tell if Trump actually built the wall? Just a few weeks ago, most news sources would report that Trump has built less than 3 miles of wall. People would aggressively argue with me that it doesn't exist, that he built only a few miles of new wall.

I was concerned and investigated. It's true, Trump has only built a few miles of the new wall. The rest was replacing old inefficient wall, which is was basically worthless. It might stop a truck from crossing, but did nothing stop people on foot.

My point is, Trump has built nearly 400 miles like he promised. Through tricky math, Mexico is paying for it.

So, while it is perhaps true that Trump lies, I also find him to be the most genuine and honest president I could imagine. For example: when he recognized Jerusalam as the capital of Israel. He claims that world leaders from everywhere called and asked him not to do it. After the first few calls he said, "I'm in a meeting, I'll call you back tomorrow." He stopped taking calls for a few days. Got the job done, and then started returning phone calls.

He lied. He admits that he lied. Even brags that he lied. And honestly, we are proud as shit that he lied. He achieved what the last five presidents couldn't. With COVID, he says he down played it and the media lost their collective minds. But he was right, we will survive this. You heard his CDC doctors tell you that it was dangerous. They couldn't make up their minds, but he continued to tell us we would get through this. I think we will. I am sad that people are dying, but the federal government has done everything it can and should. Average life expectancy in the US is 78 years. Average age of COVID victims is 78 years.

Clinton lied about the stain of the blue dress. Maybe that wasn't a big deal, but it really was a lie to cover his ass. Obama lied about the keeping your doctor, that was to mislead us into something that we would have (should have) rejected. He lied about lot of other stuff, but to this day tries to hide it.

Trump lies, admits it, tells us why, and congraduates his team for a job well done, and moves on. And maybe I am blind here. But Trump doesn't lie about stuff intended to lead America in the wrong direction.

Also, when Trump says, "I have created the best economy" and the media says, "that's a lie, he is just riding the Obama wave" I'm just going to side with Trump. I lost so much during the Obama years. But now I doing OK. So vote Trump.

Oh, do any of you guys get into numerology? Like Biden's campaign number is a 30330 right? So 2020/666=3.0330 Isn't that a little odd?

[SaidNobody]

SaidNobody
Trump is the most honest President we have ever had. he says that he will do something and he puts his entire heart into doing that very thing.

The mind boggles.........

Not really. When you think of all of those "noble, well-spoken, righteous" leaders that sold us out to One World Government, like the UN, China, and such, it makes perfect sense.

[Cnsl1]

I'm sure this isn't a political forum, though this appears to be a political thread.

I would just encourage you to... Nah, nevermind. I already wrote enough.

Vote for Trump if you want to, but please don't try to insult intelligent observers who just need but to take the man at face value to understand he's an unfiltered baffoon with a penchant for meaningless superlatives, and a guy who clearly either misses logic OR is so keen on fighting that he'll make up stuff up fight about. It's not that I like my other choice of candidates. Democraps have four years to come up with a slam dunk challenger and roll out... THIS old white guy? Reason #26 the two party system is whacked and needs to go away.

For God's sake... We have 14 genders nowadays and still only two parties? Sheesh, even in prison you get your pick of the Aryan Brotherhood, Black Guerillas, or the Mexican Mafia. So even the people who can't vote have more choice in who gets to rape them than we do.

[Cnsl1]

I'm sure this isn't a political forum, though this appears to be a political thread.

I would just encourage you to... Nah, nevermind. I already wrote enough.

Vote for Trump if you want to, but please don't try to insult intelligent observers who just need but to take the man at face value to understand he's an unfiltered baffoon with a penchant for meaningless superlatives, and a guy who clearly either misses logic OR is so keen on fighting that he'll make up stuff up fight about. It's not that I like my other choice of candidates. Democraps have four years to come up with a slam dunk challenger and roll out... THIS old white guy? Reason #26 the two party system is whacked and needs to go away.

For God's sake... We have 14 genders nowadays and still only two parties? Sheesh, even in prison you get your pick of the Aryan Brotherhood, Black Guerillas, or the Mexican Mafia. So even the people who can't vote have more choice in who gets to rape them than we do.

[Apologeticsislying]

SaidNobody
So, while it is perhaps true that Trump lies, I also find him to be the most genuine and honest president I could imagine.

Wow such low self esteem..........you can get help for that if that's all you can imagine....... I find Joseph Smith more honest, open, scientifically aligned, and realistic than Donald Trump.....