Keeping up with Trump

Chat about a topic supported by books, TED Talks, podcasts, personal experience, philosophies of mankind mingled with humor (shout out to IOT), and maybe we’ll even do a google hangout or conference call once a month.
hmb
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:43 am

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by hmb » Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:14 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:16 pm
hmb wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:36 am
Cnsl1 wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:19 am
And now he can't find an attorney to represent him. How many have quit? Five? Six? Seven?

I heard one report that they've backed out because of his insistence on using the stolen election as part of his defense, of which there is no evidence. If there were even a little evidence, he'd have attorneys jumping out of their pants for the opportunity to represent him. As it is, he's looking more and more like a pariah to avoid. Let's hope everyone remembers which senators nailed their feet to that sinking ship.
Trump could bring in baboons and monkeys to represent him. He'll still get acquitted. I wonder what those people, who do end up in prison, will think about Trump remaining free? Maybe they'll hope for his reelection and a pardon in 2024. At this point, nothing would surprise me.
This sounds like Nazis.
This sounds like republican fear of the Trump base. If the vote to dump, or not dump, Liz Cheney hadn't been anonymous, do you think the vote would have turned out differently? If the vote to strip Greene of her committee posts had been anonymous, do you think the outcome would look different on the side of the republicans? It doesn't take courage nor sacrifice to vote anonymous. This is true for all. Twitter and Reddit would look a lot different if you had to use your real identity. If the vote to convict vs. acquit Trump were anonymous, would they see enough votes to convict? Possibly. Senate republicans are in a pickle for sure. Keeping the base happy=job. Job=money and status. Cross the base and you will get the ax. And look at Pence. He was Trump's lapdog for 4 years. He crossed Trump one time (because he followed the constitution) and became the enemy of the base. Thank goodness the Pillow Guy is safe.

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 5182
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:22 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:48 pm
Biden has already told his lies.
I'm not defending Biden. I just observed that by your definition, Biden making shit up isn't any worse than Trump making shit up.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
SaidNobody
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:03 am

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:08 am

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:22 am
SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:48 pm
Biden has already told his lies.
I'm not defending Biden. I just observed that by your definition, Biden making shit up isn't any worse than Trump making shit up.
I expect my politicians to lie.

Why do people lie? To protect themselves. With Trump, (though to this day no one has provided me with a quality lie) the reasons are obvious. I mean, my god, has anyone or their family been so viciously attacked by media? So, the temptation to lie is strong. When the "grab-em by the p-word" comment came out, I could see where Trump was really tempted to lie. It looked bad. He wanted to look good. Thus, the temptation to lie probably kept him up a night. But the truth was, it wasn't illegal, or even unethical. In fact, that could have been a lockerroom talk anywhere in the world.

But Joe's lies are mostly about his family and past dealings. Whatever his words, we knew what was going to happen when he got elected. The defining moment of his administration was caught on a hot-mic, in the oval office. "I don't know what I'm signing."

His lies are obvious and understandable. His son Hunter was caught several times in illegal activity. The FBI special agent in charge of investigating pictures on Hunter's laptop was killed in the line of duty, in a child-porn raid, in Florida a couple of days ago. Coincidence? Maybe.

If you look up the "trump lies" one of the first ones that come up is the "crowd size" disagreement. It was Trump against the media. Trump stood there and looked out over the crowd, called it probably one of the biggest crowds at an inauguration. The media jumped on that. But the evidence they provided actually tipped the truth in Trump's direction. I couldn't find any ariel shots of the crowds during the events. There is one picture 90min before the event, but nothing during the event.

Trump's lies protected his ego. He was the best, the biggest, the most, the smartest. Comments like, "Nobody loves Bible more than me. Nobody knows nuclear horror as I do. There has never been a president that has done more for Black people than me." These are impossible to really define because he actually does a lot and knows a lot. But Biden is actually protecting his family from criminal charges. I personally witnessed Biden engaged in what I would term illegal dealings. They have actual evidence of Biden selling us out, but unlike with Trump, the FBI thought it best to sit on the information.

User avatar
SaidNobody
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:03 am

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:16 am

hmb wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:14 am
SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:16 pm
hmb wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:36 am


Trump could bring in baboons and monkeys to represent him. He'll still get acquitted. I wonder what those people, who do end up in prison, will think about Trump remaining free? Maybe they'll hope for his reelection and a pardon in 2024. At this point, nothing would surprise me.
This sounds like Nazis.
This sounds like republican fear of the Trump base. If the vote to dump, or not dump, Liz Cheney hadn't been anonymous, do you think the vote would have turned out differently? If the vote to strip Greene of her committee posts had been anonymous, do you think the outcome would look different on the side of the republicans? It doesn't take courage nor sacrifice to vote anonymous. This is true for all. Twitter and Reddit would look a lot different if you had to use your real identity. If the vote to convict vs. acquit Trump were anonymous, would they see enough votes to convict? Possibly. Senate republicans are in a pickle for sure. Keeping the base happy=job. Job=money and status. Cross the base and you will get the ax. And look at Pence. He was Trump's lapdog for 4 years. He crossed Trump one time (because he followed the constitution) and became the enemy of the base. Thank goodness the Pillow Guy is safe.
As a member of the Republican committee, I approve of your message.

They are in trouble.

Some people quit the party because they wanted to be more liberal. Most wanted to take the party back to conservatism. Last time a bunch broke off and created the Tea Party. Most of us are not extreme, but the Republican party isn't representing us anymore. So, stay tuned for something different.

User avatar
LSOF
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:16 pm
Location: Mare Tranquilitatis
Contact:

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by LSOF » Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:54 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:48 am

If you were fighting for something, what would that be?
For truth and for the inviolable dignity of all people.
"I appreciate your flesh needs to martyr me." Parture

"There is no contradiction between faith and science --- true science." Dr Zaius

Pastor, Lunar Society of Friends; CEO, Faithful Origins and Ontology League

User avatar
SaidNobody
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:03 am

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:51 pm

LSOF wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:54 am
SaidNobody wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:48 am

If you were fighting for something, what would that be?
For truth and for the inviolable dignity of all people.
So, like if half of the nation claimed that the other half cheated in the election and that conservatives were having their voice taken away on public platforms, you would fight for the truth (meaning that no more questions to be had by those involved) and for people's right to public/protected platforms?

Or by all people, do you mean people that agree with you? And by inalienable rights, you mean the right to keep what you earn. So taking some people's money and giving it to another more needy group might be considered slavery?

Asking for a friend. . . .?

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 3637
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:41 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:24 am
Trump is actually pretty smart. Like, if you look back at these "lies" you really cannot nail them nail as lies. If he doesn't KNOW he will always phrase the answer with, "I think, I was told, did you hear, it might, the numbers say, etc." Perjury traps are pretty dangerous for anyone. I only take the time to explain this because people are quick to imply that Trump might get caught in a lie.
Trump holds the record for the most lies told by any world leader in history. If there is one person who could be counted on to perjure himself it would be Trump.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

User avatar
SaidNobody
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:03 am

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:52 pm

moksha wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:41 pm
SaidNobody wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:24 am
Trump is actually pretty smart. Like, if you look back at these "lies" you really cannot nail them nail as lies. If he doesn't KNOW he will always phrase the answer with, "I think, I was told, did you hear, it might, the numbers say, etc." Perjury traps are pretty dangerous for anyone. I only take the time to explain this because people are quick to imply that Trump might get caught in a lie.
Trump holds the record for the most lies told by any world leader in history. If there is one person who could be counted on to perjure himself it would be Trump.
Yes, we have mentioned that he has lied more than any leader in history, yet, we call him the most honest president we have ever had. Maybe you would like to discuss the merits instead of the labels?

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 3637
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:57 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:52 pm
Yes, we have mentioned that he has lied more than any leader in history, yet, we call him the most honest president we have ever had. Maybe you would like to discuss the merits instead of the labels?
Saying Trump is the most honest President we have ever had seems like a grossly distorted mislabel. Like someone labeling arsenic as a health product.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

User avatar
SaidNobody
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:03 am

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:43 pm

moksha wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:57 pm
SaidNobody wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:52 pm
Yes, we have mentioned that he has lied more than any leader in history, yet, we call him the most honest president we have ever had. Maybe you would like to discuss the merits instead of the labels?
Saying Trump is the most honest President we have ever had seems like a grossly distorted mislabel. Like someone labeling arsenic as a health product.
I really feel like an asshole, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenicum ... l%20doses. It's actually a very powerful health product, one of my favorites.

But also check out https://promiseskept.com/

Trump did things other politicians promised to do but never did. Like, do you remember G.W. Bush leaving $50B to Obama to build a wall? But Good God here comes a builder, someone that can actually build a wall and the Swamp loses its mind.
Trump did so many things that others said they would but didn't. Like, when Trump told Dems he would fix the DACA issue, they all ran and hid. They didn't care, they just need the political power of the issue. They don't want it to be fixed

User avatar
LSOF
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:16 pm
Location: Mare Tranquilitatis
Contact:

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by LSOF » Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:49 pm

It's simple doublethink. Trump lies more than any other leader, yet he's the most honest. 2 + 2 both = 4 and = 5, but 4 ≠ 5. Jesus was born both before the death of Herod the Great (4 BCE) and after the ascension of Quirinius to the governorship of Syria (6 CE).
SaidNobody wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:51 pm
So, like if half of the nation claimed that the other half cheated in the election and that conservatives were having their voice taken away on public platforms, you would fight for the truth (meaning that no more questions to be had by those involved) and for people's right to public/protected platforms?

Or by all people, do you mean people that agree with you? And by inalienable rights, you mean the right to keep what you earn. So taking some people's money and giving it to another more needy group might be considered slavery?

Asking for a friend. . . .?
It's not half the nation that believes the other half cheated. It's the classic not-silent non-majority "Silent Majority", dwindling every day. It's people who take as truth the ravings of 4chan anons and movies from the Seventies. If Trump and his train of clowns had any evidence of massive election fraud, they would have presented it in any of the sixty-odd court cases they brought.

I never said "inalienable rights". I said "inviolable dignity". Do kindly break your habit of misreading what I write. Your dignity is not violated if you pay so much tax that you can only afford one aircraft carrier instead of five. As for "the right to keep what you earn" --- we live in a society. You can't realistically opt out, even if you wanted to. There's a reason Galt's Gulch required a perpetual motion machine.

Capitalists, i.e., the owners of capital, earn nothing. It's their employees that do all the work, under threat of starvation. Shareholders just sit on their portion of a business and choose people who choose people who choose people who ... who choose people who give orders to the employees, i.e., the people who actually do the work. There's a reason capitalists hate strikes so much: they know that the gravy train derails if the people who actually do the work, stop doing the work.
SaidNobody wrote: I really feel like an asshole, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenicum ... l%20doses. It's actually a very powerful health product, one of my favorites.
Why am I surprised you believe in homeopathy too...
"I appreciate your flesh needs to martyr me." Parture

"There is no contradiction between faith and science --- true science." Dr Zaius

Pastor, Lunar Society of Friends; CEO, Faithful Origins and Ontology League

User avatar
SaidNobody
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:03 am

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:05 pm

LSOF wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:49 pm
It's simple doublethink. Trump lies more than any other leader, yet he's the most honest. 2 + 2 both = 4 and = 5, but 4 ≠ 5. Jesus was born both before the death of Herod the Great (4 BCE) and after the ascension of Quirinius to the governorship of Syria (6 CE).
SaidNobody wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:51 pm
So, like if half of the nation claimed that the other half cheated in the election and that conservatives were having their voice taken away on public platforms, you would fight for the truth (meaning that no more questions to be had by those involved) and for people's right to public/protected platforms?

Or by all people, do you mean people that agree with you? And by inalienable rights, you mean the right to keep what you earn. So taking some people's money and giving it to another more needy group might be considered slavery?

Asking for a friend. . . .?
It's not half the nation that believes the other half cheated. It's the classic not-silent non-majority "Silent Majority", dwindling every day. It's people who take as truth the ravings of 4chan anons and movies from the Seventies. If Trump and his train of clowns had any evidence of massive election fraud, they would have presented it in any of the sixty-odd court cases they brought.

I never said "inalienable rights". I said "inviolable dignity". Do kindly break your habit of misreading what I write. Your dignity is not violated if you pay so much tax that you can only afford one aircraft carrier instead of five. As for "the right to keep what you earn" --- we live in a society. You can't realistically opt out, even if you wanted to. There's a reason Galt's Gulch required a perpetual motion machine.

Capitalists, i.e., the owners of capital, earn nothing. It's their employees that do all the work, under threat of starvation. Shareholders just sit on their portion of a business and choose people who choose people who choose people who ... who choose people who give orders to the employees, i.e., the people who actually do the work. There's a reason capitalists hate strikes so much: they know that the gravy train derails if the people who actually do the work, stop doing the work.
SaidNobody wrote: I really feel like an asshole, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenicum ... l%20doses. It's actually a very powerful health product, one of my favorites.
Why am I surprised you believe in homeopathy too...
Reading your words gives that "I just threw up in my mouth feeling." How can anyone talk about "tax and Inviolable dignity" as mixable terms.

But your own stance violates one of the fundamental concepts of a good government. Separation of Church and State. We allow State to do necessary evils, like administer justice, even the death penalty, or fight wars to defend ourselves, or lock people up. We allow the State to do things that we would arrest or kill anyone else for doing. One of those things is taxes. Taxes are not "good thing." It is thievery.

Capitalism is power, like electricity or fertilizer. Nothing is so pure that it doesn't need consciousness to guide it. You look at capitalism as a great imbalancer, but spiritually speaking, Capitalism is more of the creator than the workers. There are workers all over the world yet those with capitalism are doing so much better. Like, even if you are jobless and homeless in America, you are still better off then many, many even most people in the world. We have medicine, electricity, safety, cheap products, generous donors, etc. Capitalism can take a nearly unskilled worker and give them a position of value. If they apply themselves, they can work up their ladder, gain skills, improve their lives. South Korea has used this system to build a great nation. North Korea has talented people, amazing skills, dedicated workers, but they cannot chip the paint of the success of South Korea.

The wealth of billionaires is not like physical property. It's a spiritual property, and it only works if people believe in it.

Give a billion dollars to a homeless person and they would be homeless again within a year. Wealth is more of a spiritual thing than it is temporal.

And why are you surprised that I believe in Homeopathy?

User avatar
LSOF
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:16 pm
Location: Mare Tranquilitatis
Contact:

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by LSOF » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:01 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:05 pm
And why are you surprised that I believe in Homeopathy?
I don't know. Given that you believe that taxation is theft and support the most obvious con-man this side of L. Ron Hubbard, I shouldn't be. At this point, my opinion of your words is so low that if you told me that the Earth is round, I'd have to look up in the sky to make sure. Thankfully, since it's always at the same position in the sky, and very distinctive in appearance, I can easily find it. Since I live in Mare Tranquilitatis, it's due west, sixty degrees up from the horizon, currently in Taurus. By the way, the Apollo 11 landing site is in Mare Tranquilitatis too! It was at least as big a story here on the Moon as it must have been on Earth. My grandparents (faithful Mormons) told me that their bishop cancelled church so that everyone could watch the landing instead! I wish I could have been there.
We have medicine, electricity, safety, cheap products, generous donors, etc.
You mean you do. Homeless people have none of those things. As for me, I have only two of those things, (electricity and safety), of which safety is not a guarantee. What a disgrace is any economy, in which are homeless people, and yet enough housing units to give thirty to each and every one of them, not just the men, but the women, and the children too! And there would still be over 400 000 left!! Moreover, what a disgrace is any economy, in which are both homeless people and billionaires! You obviously believe the myth that billionaires worked hard to be where they are, which they didn't. Most of them inherited it. A wage-labourer would have to work thousands, or even millions, of years to become a billionaire, assuming they never spent a penny of it. The notion that billionaires work hard is preposterous on its face.

It's been fun, but I think I'm going to ignore you from now on.
"I appreciate your flesh needs to martyr me." Parture

"There is no contradiction between faith and science --- true science." Dr Zaius

Pastor, Lunar Society of Friends; CEO, Faithful Origins and Ontology League

User avatar
SaidNobody
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:03 am

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:17 pm

LSOF wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:01 pm
It's been fun, but I think I'm going to ignore you from now on.
I guess I will consider myself blessed.
Thanks for the chat.

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 5182
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:52 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:16 am
Some people quit the party because they wanted to be more liberal. Most wanted to take the party back to conservatism. Last time a bunch broke off and created the Tea Party. Most of us are not extreme, but the Republican party isn't representing us anymore. So, stay tuned for something different.
Which is exactly what the Democrats are praying for; a free ride ticket. Almost half of Americans voted for Trump but only half of those are suckers for wacky conspiracy theories. Split those between two parties and Democrats rule the world.

Democrats would have already been pretty much unopposed if not for Republican machinations like gerrymandering.

Exhibit A. Jim Jordan's district:
Image

Or if we went by the popular vote. Americans as a whole are more in line with the Democratic worldview.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
LSOF
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:16 pm
Location: Mare Tranquilitatis
Contact:

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by LSOF » Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:29 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:52 am
SaidNobody wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:16 am
Some people quit the party because they wanted to be more liberal. Most wanted to take the party back to conservatism. Last time a bunch broke off and created the Tea Party. Most of us are not extreme, but the Republican party isn't representing us anymore. So, stay tuned for something different.
Which is exactly what the Democrats are praying for; a free ride ticket. Almost half of Americans voted for Trump but only half of those are suckers for wacky conspiracy theories. Split those between two parties and Democrats rule the world.

Democrats would have already been pretty much unopposed if not for Republican machinations like gerrymandering.

Exhibit A. Jim Jordan's district:
[pictures omitted]
Or if we went by the popular vote. Americans as a whole are more in line with the Democratic worldview.
I submit as Exhibit B Dan Crenshaw's district, which is arguably even worse:
Image
"I appreciate your flesh needs to martyr me." Parture

"There is no contradiction between faith and science --- true science." Dr Zaius

Pastor, Lunar Society of Friends; CEO, Faithful Origins and Ontology League

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 5182
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:50 am

Sheesh.

Here's another example in Ohio. District 1 swung back and forth between red and blue because it was fairly balanced, so they added entirely red Warren county to make sure the Democratic voters there would never again have any chance at a fair election. Is it any wonder that so many of these people were so eager to think they could steal the presidency by jumping on board a false claim that the election was rigged? Cheaters gonna cheat.

Image
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

User avatar
moksha
Posts: 3637
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:38 pm

An even more disgruntling example of gerrymandering is in Utah, where they have divided up Salt Lake County into three districts just to disenfranchise non-Mormons.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

hmb
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:43 am

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by hmb » Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:16 am

I'm in Ohio's 7th congressional district. We'll see if the gerrymandering can really be dealt with this year.
https://www.statenews.org/post/ohios-re ... shape-2021

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 5182
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:22 am

hmb wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:16 am
I'm in Ohio's 7th congressional district. We'll see if the gerrymandering can really be dealt with this year.
https://www.statenews.org/post/ohios-re ... shape-2021
That's great new. Good luck with that.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests