Rhetorical Question - warning: political

[Hagoth]

Utahns were the highest per-capita voters for Trump in 2016, despite their awareness of his p*ssy grabbing lifestyle and inability to tell the truth. I have heard some express that felt religiously obligated to support the Republican party regardless of the actual people leading it.

Question: if Satan ran as the conservative Republican candidate against Bernie or Hillary would it pose a dilemma for Mormon voters?

It's a tongue in cheek question, sure. A better question would be: Just how morally reprehensible would a candidate have to be for you to not vote for them, assuming that you directly associate your religious conviction with right-wing conservatism and the Republican party? Yes, this cuts both ways, but I remind you again of the swift justice dealt by Democrats to Al Franken vs. the neck trauma suffered by Mormons trying to look the other way regarding Trump's much, much, much, much worse behavior, and their urgency to make him the most powerful man in the world.

[alas]

According to the trumplets that I know, none of the stuff against trump is true. It is all lies made up by the corrupt mainstreamed press. The very words out of trump’s mouth are lies made up by the mainstream press. He can stand in front of them and say something and you ask them later and he was just joking and the mainstream press just twisted it, and it is all lies made up by the mainstream press. Trump himself walks on water and we all hate him because he is so .....OMG, I don’t know because by now I am emotionall throwing up and just can’t listen to their self deception any longer. It is like the followers of Joseph Smith claimed he was persecuted because he was so righteous, not because he declared himself king and was playing around with anything in a skirt. No, it was all Satan making people hate Joseph trying to thwart God’s plan.

It was like when I said there are charges of rape against trump, and the NOM who must be a trump supporter said “what?!?!!!” They just refuse to believe that some 20 plus women have accused trump of sexual assault and some of them say it was rape. Maybe one false accuser, but 20+. Nope, no way in hades the man is innocent.

Nope they think of trump as some kind of savior who is only hated by us evil people who also molest children.

[Reuben]

Gonna copypasta something I wrote on another forum about Trump supporters.

* * *

What you're seeing is what humans do when they think they stand to lose everything if the Bad Guys win.

I was raised in a fundamentalist religion with an obviously corrupt founder that induced its members to act the same way. (The Bad Guys were Satan and The World.) It was unbelievably difficult to see clearly enough to stop making excuses for him and his successors.

A word of warning, then: a lot of people on the American left think they stand to lose everything if Trump wins. That sort of fear is blinding. Resist it.

[moksha]

Question: if Satan ran as the conservative Republican candidate against Bernie or Hillary would it pose a dilemma for Mormon voters?

When you vote for the party rather than the person, this is bound to happen. The LDS portion of Utah will cast their ballot for Satan... er... Trump in 2020.

They do it not as a reasoned response; they believe it is the will of their General Authorities. Members have been taught to doubt their doubts, so even if Trump appears to be both a pathological liar and malignant narcissist whose entire message repudiates their gospel, they will obey the perception of what the Authorities wish.

[hmb]

It's a tongue in cheek question, sure. A better question would be: Just how morally reprehensible would a candidate have to be for you to not vote for them, assuming that you directly associate your religious conviction with right-wing conservatism and the Republican party? Yes, this cuts both ways, but I remind you again of the swift justice dealt by Democrats to Al Franken vs. the neck trauma suffered by Mormons trying to look the other way regarding Trump's much, much, much, much worse behavior, and their urgency to make him the most powerful man in the world.

The TBMs I know are starting to admit what a creep Trump really is. There are some who deny all the information against him as fake, but most are admitting that he is not a good person. Nevertheless, they will vote republican because they can't vote for the evil democrat side. My dad can't stand Trump but will hold his nose while voting for him. Sigh. Sad that he has a good chance of winning.

[Hagoth]

Nope they think of trump as some kind of savior who is only hated by us evil people who also molest children.

And the response is to make anything Trump does/says look mild by claiming that Biden is part of a secret satanic ring of pedophiles of who drink the blood of babies. Yeah, Trump looks pretty good by those standards. And yet Trump's followers can somehow nod and smile when he blames his own statements on the fake media. Crazyland, I tell ya.

[Apologeticsislying]

Moksha
They do it not as a reasoned response; they believe it is the will of their General Authorities. Members have been taught to doubt their doubts, so even if Trump appears to be both a pathological liar and malignant narcissist whose entire message repudiates their gospel, they will obey the perception of what the Authorities wish.

This is enough to justify Mormonism as evil and very much worth fighting against. To let someone else do your thinking cannot ever lead to a good end. EVER.

[moksha]

To let someone else do your thinking cannot ever lead to a good end. EVER.

It gets even weirder: The General Authorities have not asked them to vote this way. Going by a recent Mormon Stories podcast, it appears many members are still running off of the exhaust left by Ezra Taft Benson and Benson's antics were decidedly not the will of the rest of the Brethren. As William Shakespeare wrote in Julius Caesar, "The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interrèd with their bones".

[Hagoth]

When I was growing up, and even after I reached voting age, there was never any political discussion in my home. I was told "we know how we're supposed to vote."

[Reuben]

When I was growing up, and even after I reached voting age, there was never any political discussion in my home. I was told "we know how we're supposed to vote."

I remember being aghast when I learned that some family friends voted Democrat. Mormonism and Republicanism were pretty entangled in my home.

[Lucidity]

Why? because this idea that people should vote for a person because they are nice and kissing babies etc is done. We are in a culture war. People don’t care if the general is nice. They want victories.
Why? Because the alternative is worse (they believe this on both sides), that’s why. It’s not illogical nor should it be surprising. If you believe that the alternative policies will destroy the nation you hold your nose.

In my anecdotal experience with most LDS Trump voters, including my family, what the politician does in the capacity of their position is more important than how they act personally. They see trump as better than the alternative when it come to what they want for the the nation. Is it gross? Yeah kind of. Everyone would like their candidate to be of impeccable moral character but when push comes to shove behavior takes a back seat to policy etc. We saw it with Dems during the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal. Jimmy Carter is widely regarded as a great person and a somewhat inept president.
People are elected to get things done not be the Dali Lama. It looks hypocritical but if you believe that the alternative is the destruction of the nation you put up with the bitter taste.

Clearly this doesn’t apply to everyone, some folks are trump cultist, and are in total denial. And yes most conservatives would not agree with the criticisms coming from liberals and vice versa. With media and online echo chambers being what they are you can count on that Trump supporters don’t feel they are making the moral compromises that the left thinks they are.

[Hagoth]

With media and online echo chambers being what they are you can count on that Trump supporters don’t feel they are making the moral compromises that the left thinks they are.

And, as you pointed out, vice versa. I might have posed an inverse question: Would self-identifying liberals vote for Fidel Castro if that was what it took to dump Trump.

And people don't quickly get over attitudes, well founded or not. Last night in a man-in-the-street interview I heard a lady say she's voting for Trump again because she hates Hillary Clinton.

[moksha]

Last night in a man-in-the-street interview I heard a lady say she's voting for Trump again because she hates Hillary Clinton.

News tends to travel a bit more slowly in Utah when it is not gossip overheard at Church.

[Lucidity]

With media and online echo chambers being what they are you can count on that Trump supporters don’t feel they are making the moral compromises that the left thinks they are.

And, as you pointed out, vice versa. I might have posed an inverse question: Would self-identifying liberals vote for Fidel Castro if that was what it took to dump Trump.

I’ve heard it said that politics is the art of making it hard to vote for your opponent and easy to vote for you. American politics seems to have embraced the truth that it’s more effective to convince people that the opponent is not merely wrong, but evil.

During the whole Biden sexual assault/harassment accusations I remember seeing a blue check mark person on Twitter say,
“I don’t care even if it is all true. It’s doesn’t matter I’m still voting for Biden. Why? Because the alternative is a
F%#*ING NAZI!!!”

But yeah the levels of misinformation are astounding. Yesterday alone I spent time trying to convince one of my hard-core right friends that Kamala Harris was actually born in the US, and one of my hard-core left friends that Europe has not successfully contained Covid and the US is not the only country in the world seeing a big spike. These are both educated people.

[Hagoth]

I’ve heard it said that politics is the art of making it hard to vote for your opponent and easy to vote for you.

And of dragging normal, decent, moderate people out of their balanced worldview and into your angry maelstrom.

[SaidNobody]

Utahns were the highest per-capita voters for Trump in 2016, despite their awareness of his p*ssy grabbing lifestyle and inability to tell the truth. I have heard some express that felt religiously obligated to support the Republican party regardless of the actual people leading it.

Question: if Satan ran as the conservative Republican candidate against Bernie or Hillary would it pose a dilemma for Mormon voters?

It's a tongue in cheek question, sure. A better question would be: Just how morally reprehensible would a candidate have to be for you to not vote for them, assuming that you directly associate your religious conviction with right-wing conservatism and the Republican party? Yes, this cuts both ways, but I remind you again of the swift justice dealt by Democrats to Al Franken vs. the neck trauma suffered by Mormons trying to look the other way regarding Trump's much, much, much, much worse behavior, and their urgency to make him the most powerful man in the world.

For the record, what I know of Satan, I would vote for him any day. What bugs me about this rhetorical question is the self-righteousness of it. Like, there are two kinds of men, those that like to grab p*ssy and those that don't. Those that don't, well, let's leave them out of this. Trump is/was a billionaire. What he was saying, when you are rich, you can do what every man either does or wants to do. Now, what is most shocking about this is why does this surprise anyone. I mean, I know LDS Sunday School would consider this absolutely shocking, but let's be serious. Senator Bob Menendez was going to the Dominican Republic to have sex with 15-year-olds. Maybe I just live in a dirtier world than the rest of you, but our government is full of pervs and sickos. Cory Booker was accused of sexually assaulting a young man in NJ and the media buried that story within a day. Anyway, if she is willing, and the audio clip confirmed that Trump knew the difference, the old p-grab is fair game. To say that it is against the rules, then what are we saying to the woman? Like, are we telling her, "you are not allowed to want/allow anyone to do the ole p-grab even if that is why you are there." Are we restricting the man, or woman at that point? Whatever happened to consenting adults? When a woman came forward and said that Biden did the p-grab to her, but she WAS NOT WILLING there isn't a peep from the media.

As for telling the truth, We all know that the "lies" Trump tells are not actually lies. They are things that he might have been wrong about, or that the press simply couldn't confirm. But I haven't found a single direct lie. That he said he "thinks" he holds the record of being on Time Mag but that was actually held by Nixon, it just a mistake, not a lie. Cause maybe he could have added, "most of anyone alive." I can say I think "anything" and it's not a lie. But, did he lie like, "I didn't put a stain on the blue dress?" No. Nothing like that. I could go through CNN or NYT and actually show you lies they tell every day. I mean like, actual, honest to God lies. Like, "There is no proof of fraud." There are thousands of videos and polls telling about fraud, of machines that make errors to benefit Democrats, or where Republican Poll Watchers were kicked of our their positions of watching, or where governors and courts changed the rules days before the election. When Trump says there is fraud, it isn't because he caught someone cheating, it because thousands of people were caught cheating in different situations and they provided proof. But when the MSM calls Biden the President-Elect, that is a lie. It hasn't been decided yet. When the electoral college votes, then there will a president-elect. When the media said Trump colluded with Russia, that was a lie. It wasn't a mistake or even a misunderstanding. It was a lie. When CNN said Trump was golfing, but he later provided video where he and the First Lady visited the troops, that was a lie.

I said it before, Hate voted for Biden. Plain and simple.

Judging people that believe lies goes against the old wisdom, "those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

[moksha]

SaidNobody, as a proclaimed arbiter of the truth, should Trump stage a coup to remain the leader of America?

[SaidNobody]

SaidNobody, as a proclaimed arbiter of the truth, should Trump stage a coup to remain the leader of America?

Absolutely not. But Trump isn't staging a coup. He has been fighting one. So his supporters Wonder that if he is kicked out was it more right to allow it or should we fight back.

Anyone who admits to see truth knows that the Russian hoax was an attempt to remove him from office. The Ukraine impeachment was an attempt to remove him from office.

People who have their hearts filled with hatred see both of those is justified and wish that they had succeeded. And this is now in another attempt to remove him from office. The election was tampered with. There is evidence everywhere and yet the mainstream media continues to say unfounded allegations. When I say that my governor and attorney general and a judge unlawfully changed three laws of the election it is not unfounded. It is founded. The governor send out those notifications himself. The attorney general bragged that he got a judge to block Republican poll watchers. Said that we were trying to intimidate them when is a tradition to have both parties watch. That is not unfounded. They cheated. They removed the requirement the signatures match so that any mail in balance could then be counted. That might seem fair but it isn't.

Trump says that if the courts and the system deem that he lost the election he will leave the office. But right now he has many valid lawsuits. We have actual effort evidence including witnesses and videotapes and laws that were invalidly changed and machines that were improperly updated the day before the election.

I love this country. I fear for what is happening. There is an innocence about many people who simply accept that the things they are being told is the truth. Anyone who questions that truth is then called a conspiracy theorist. But they tried to steal the 2016 election. There were hundreds of accounts but they were all hushed. Hillary hardly even campaigned and when she did she was so wasted she could barely stand. She thought they could give her the election. The media was putting her at 98% chance of winning. Yes somehow Trump came in and turned the country almost entirely red except for a few large cities. Those same large cities that have huge discrepancies in their voting numbers. In Philadelphia they physically barred the Republican poll watchers.

This is not a coup. This is a fight for justice. But we will use the law to achieve it. and you people with your hateful hearts can still walk around and act like you're somehow better than the rest of us.