Graceful Transfer of Power

Chat about a topic supported by books, TED Talks, podcasts, personal experience, philosophies of mankind mingled with humor (shout out to IOT), and maybe we’ll even do a google hangout or conference call once a month.
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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:23 am

Hagoth wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:19 am
SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:28 pm
Trump actually tweeted out a video message telling people that there should be no violence and that they should go home.
Yeah, such a sincere message:

You are totally justified in what you are feeling and doing.
go home now
You're great people we love you, keep up the good work!
I am, whatever my name is, and I support this message.

So what part of this message did you think justified shutting down a person's account?

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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:40 am

Cnsl1 wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:50 am
I know I'm preaching to the choir and one guy who's not even in the same congregation, but I watched the whole f'ing thing go down today as I am in quarantine and had to stay home. I watched coverage from at least 10 different stations, watched it unfold from the start, becoming more and more appalled and flabbergasted as it transpired. I kinda thought the crowd of trumplicans (and let's be honest, that's what they were) could get rowdy because, good grief, their Royal Highness told them to march to the Capitol and fight and that they needed to be forceful. Yes yes, he DID tell them to be peaceful but that was after they'd already broken in and broken the law! That was AFTER Biden called him out and asked him to make a statement. Yes, Twitter pulled his account, but that was not until tonight. Twist the facts and twist the facts and now try to blame the illegal stuff on antifa.

In my opinion, whoever did the crimes should be arrested. I don't care what you're persuasion is. But it's a fact that Trump led them down this gulley and set them on their way. Most of the people inside the Capitol didn't appear to be destructive, but more like annoying, insensitive redneck tourists. Still, they were not supposed to be in there! They broke in. They should face the consequences of that act. It could have gone much much much worse. Fortunately, most of the thousands at the Capitol seemed like garden variety gullible white folks, and while prone to aggressiveness, not really the criminal type. Some were downright mean, some completely whacky, but in my opinion, Trump could have easily stopped that mess before it even started, EVEN IF he does actually believe the election was rigged.

I think Occam's Razor applies well in these situations, including this one.

What makes more sense?
1) there is a grand conspiracy at hand. Judges that are appointed by Trump who say there's no evidence of fraud are lying. People who voted for him and campaigned mightily for him decide they don't want to help him anymore even though there is evidence to support his case. Multiple courts in multiple states toss it out cuz they're in on the conspiracy. Antifa infiltrates the peaceful Trumpers and trash the Capitol while dressed as redneck MAGAtes. Just about everyone close to Trump starts baling out, except those who are the stable geniuses. Every media source is corrupted and the press is all fake.

Or 2). Trump is a selfish narcissist who cannot handle losing and cannot admit he lost. Lots of people like to believe conspiracy theories. And, Cruz and Hawley are more concerned about power an d becoming president than serving their country.

The simplest explanation is usually the most correct.
Anyone who has tolerated me for any amount of time knows that I don't believe in facts. And a lot of what you said here makes my point. It is a fact that it was a Trump rally. It is a fact that it was a capital building. It is a fact that there was violence. It's in fact that a woman was shot for crawling through a window.

If I were to put those facts into a logic puzzle I'm sure you would come up with the same opinion that you basically expressed here. What if I said that it was there was a fact that one of the people at the front breaking into the building had a communist tattoo on his hand, the sickle and star.

When you begin to break down a situation in the facts you lose a lot of what is actually happening. Facts are a weak point in our logic. One person was trying to tell me that you cannot be a fascist if you are part of Anti-Fascist. It defied logic.

Yet anybody who knows anything about Antifa would know that they are pure fascist. They will shut down speakers they don't like. They will attack figures that they don't like. They will cause disturbances and make people fearful. They hate authority that isn't theirs. Antifa is literally the modern version of The facist party from World War II. Fascism was at once point an admired system of government for the Democrats. They admired Mussolini and Hitler for their wonderful programs to take care of the poor. To bring quality and justice to all. But they also destroyed anyone who got in their way or who did not want to play along. The two founders of what is called Antifa were actually fascist philosophers from Germany. They knew what they were doing was now a hated philosophy and so they called it anti-fascist. What any good philosopher would do.

That woman who was shot in the capital was crawling through window that was broken. I don't think that she broke it but she was crawling through it. She was a veteran of 14 years. She had done four tours in the air Force. She was protesting and she was in a public building. I'm not sure why anyone was allowed into that building. I know that hundreds of thousands of angry Democrats were banging on the doors of the supreme Court and not a single person got in and not a single person was shot.

Going to confess that I'm a little pissed. Cops let antifa burn down their cities and their police station and didn't shoot a single one. This woman was unarmed and crawling through a window but needed to be shot and killed. If you think there isn't two teirs of justice then you're not paying attention.

On the note of Law & Order. She shouldn't have been in that building. I can't make excuses for that. However, I know that when they were debating some of the supreme Court justices that Democrats piled into those same buildings and blocked the hallways. They harassed the senators and the Congress people. They yelled at them and crowded into elevators with them. But somehow it was okay to shoot this woman. I'm sorry, it isn't an equal justice. And so you're preaching to the one guy who's not part of your congregation, but I am listening. I respect your opinion even though I think it is flawed and biased. You justify the killing of a woman who served her country, because she was in a building doing what hundreds of thousands of Democrats have done over the last four years. She was protesting. She wasn't hurting anyone. She didn't break the window. Yet the same people who burn down cities and police stations and killed cops are being defended because they wouldn't do something like this.

When Trump asked his supporters to go home. They went home. Not a single governor or mayor of one of these cities or states that suffered from these riots ever asked Antifa or Black Lives Matter to go home. And they didn't. They burned and looted and killed without restriction for weeks. Yet you have some sort of moral high horse that you want to come and lay at my feet as if my group are a bunch of savages.

There were three main guys there, one dressed as a Native American Viking, and two others. I think they were the ones breaking things and leading the charge. I don't have all the pictures. But they have been confirmed as Antifa. Being among crowds can be dangerous when it comes to your emotions. Your emotions are almost directly linked to your body chemistry. And crowds can drive up levels of different hormones and you can quickly become involved in illogical behavior because that seems like what everyone else is doing.

I can't defend why that woman was in that building. But if she's going to get shot we need to hunt down about 10,000 Democratic protesters and then send them along with her.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:00 am

Hagoth wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:14 am
The perpetrators will be identified. They will be Trumpers, not Antifa. Then the other Trumpers will disown them by claiming that the evil left "got to" those particular Trumpers. Or they'll just invent another conspiracy theory out of thin air like they always do. We've seen it all too many times before.

The name for the federal crime committed by Donald Trump and everyone who was complicit in this treachery is Seditious Conspiracy: 18 U.S. Code § 2384

"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both."

Prison time for all of these traitors please, and especially for the guy who incited the mob by calling them to show up and telling them to "be wild," and promising to march with them but then hightailed it back to safety where he could pop some popcorn and enjoy the show from a distance. And to his henchman who called for trial by combat. And while we're at it, let's take a good look at the finances and tax records and clean the entire closet.

Time for the 25th Amendment. Punish the spoiled children and let the grown ups try to get some work done.
This is pretty laughable. LOL

My guys have already identified them as Antifa. One of them has a communist tattoo on his hand. The other one has some sort of tattoo on his chest was supposedly means some sort of fascist thing but I don't remember what it was.

Here's the deal. I don't think that Antifa is actually Democrats. They might be. But Antifa is a fascist philosophy. Democrats in general don't like fascist philosophies. Or so they claim.

But you need to, for your own understanding, know what facism is. Many people confuse the label fascist with Republican. That is like labeling your Goldenseal as Cinnamon.

So let's call this what it is. Americans attacking American institutions. If this was actually Republicans, what would we put the score at, 1000:3? Aside from that I don't know that any of us here can prove anything else. Unless someone can prove that one of them is a German or something like that.

The protesters at this particular rally were there because they are tired of their American institutions being attacked. Not only are there police stations being burned to the ground, but the laws that are protected are freedoms are being attacked as well. That is why they were there.

Maybe some group of Trump supporters figured that they would get their point across by attacking the Capitol building. I'm sure many were tempted. I think Trump calling these people to Washington was a mistake. I think he might have believed the other things were going to happen. But it gave the true enemy an opportunity to really make them look bad.

So you go ahead and think that they were Trump supporters. And I'm not even sure why that matters one way or another. Bernie supporter shot one of the senators. That make all Bernie supporters evil? Another Democrat sell it attacked Senator Rand Paul. Does that make all of Democrats evil? There are radicals in both teams. The enemy isn't the party or the people It's the spirit in which we treat each other.

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deacon blues
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by deacon blues » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:03 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:28 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:06 pm
You don't need to convince us of anything, SN. You need to take it up with the judges of the 60+ lawsuits, the Attourney General, the Republican election officials, the Supreme Court... they are the ones calling bullshit on Trump's conspiracy theories. You keep talking about the poor 74 million voters who didn't get their way. Have you considered that the 81 million of us who voted for Biden also feel like we count?

And blaming Antifa? Nope, sorry you don't get to blame this on anybody else. This was people Trump called patriots. He fired these people up and sat back quietly and let it happen.
I gave up trying to convince you guys of anything a long time ago. However, obviously if I could take it up with the judges or the attorney general or anyone for that matter, I would.

I can blame antifa anything I want given the precedence that you used to blame Trump supporters. I don't like them. I think they are evil. There is no deed to disgusting to be placed upon them.

Hey you often hear the argument that they're not real. They're an idea.

Trump actually tweeted out a video message telling people that there should be no violence and that they should go home. Trump sent out three messages of similar kind telling people that we were of law and order and that there should be no violence.

Twitter actually suspended his account and blocked those three messages. Now, of all the messages that Trump has sent out why would they block the ones where he is calling for peace and order among his supporters and for them to go home?

And as far as my position is without me going into it thousands of points of evidence, that whole thing was a staged event. There might have been some Republicans in there but most of it was the same antifa insiders and it burned down our cities.
"I gave up trying....." It sounds like you are still trying, and that's OK. :)

"I can blame antifa....." Yes you can, but facts would be more believable, at least on this board. :o The poor woman who was killed was not antifa. :o

"Hey you often hear..." "Can you clarify what you're trying to say here? Are you saying they're real?"

"Trump actually tweeted.... " "Joseph Smith said he could only find one wife, and Nixon said "I am not a crook" but the evidence contradicted both statements. I'm saying Trump has a history of tweeting B.S. He's like the boy who cried wolf.

"Twitter actually suspended...." Trump could have tweet a dozen messages after the suspension, whenever it actually took effect. what's your point?(I would like to see the evidence when it took place.) The problem is he has a history of tweeting exaggerations- the damage had already been done. Trump is either ignorant of the effect that his texts have, or he is deliberately manipulating a mob. :shock:

"And as far as my position is.....staged" "I think this is HIGHLY unlikely. But supposing it was staged by some antifa: Trump's reaction was even more clueless. He got completely duped.

SN, people are going to disagree with some of the things you say, just as I think you will push back against what I'm saying. Give us a rational argument, or a polite rant, but for your own sake "make allowance for our doubting too." (Kipling) Don't let a persecution complex cloud your posts too much. And don't take yourself so seriously
God is Love. God is Truth

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Hagoth
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by Hagoth » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:39 am

Let's imagine that the ringleaders really were Antifa. In that case, how stupid and gullible would the "patriots" have to been to follow the lead of Antifa and go right ahead and commit the crimes alongside them, especially considering that the conspiracy mill was already blaming Antifa for anything that might be taken as Alt-right bad behavior. :roll: They could have, being patriots, actually defended their capitol against the hated traitors, or at least stood back and let Antifa do the sedition all by themselves and suffer all the consequences.

Now we get to see how well Trump and his followers do at tearing the Republican party apart and greasing the wheels for decades of uninterrupted Democrat rule. I think the ultimate conclusion, if you like this conspiracy stuff, would be that Trump is a secret Antifa agent intent on destroying the Republican Party. If so, then he is smarter and more devious than I gave him credit for.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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alas
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by alas » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:24 am

I think I will start a conspiracy theory that people should look at what trump accomplished to see what his REAL motivations were. After 4 years of his strange behavior, we went from the president is Republican, the senate is Republican and the house is Republican to end result, the president is democrat, the senate is split 50/50 with a tie breaker who is a democrat, and the house is democrat. Funny what his orangeness accomplished. He must really have never changed his alliegence to the Republican Party. He is a bigger spender than any democrat on record and my Republican Party used to believe is fiscal responsibility. And the Republican Party I used to vote for supported states rights and Trump insisted in trashing state rights whenever it clashed with what he wanted.

Yes, yes, I am a flaming liberal on social issues, but a strong believer in states rights and fiscal responsibility, so my vote was always split until his orange idiocy took control of the minds of the gullible.

There is a name for where one delusional person convinces those around him that his delusion is real, in spite of much evidence to the contrary. But I think the DSM would short circuit over the current display of mass delusion.

So, anyway, I think should start the rumor that trump was always and still is a democrat. Just look at all he accomplished for the democrats. He brought them back to power. Nobody could have done a better job of destroying the Republican Party. Nobody.

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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by River Morgan2 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:37 am

Two points.

First, The BLM people were protesters. These people Who violated the US Capitol Building on January 6 were terrorists. They fit every element of the crime as listed in the Federal Code of Regulations.

Second, I have labeled the current president with many different labels, Genghis Can't, Dumb Corleone, IMPOTUS, Hair Furor, Trumpty Dumpty, Nostradumbass, and my personal favorite, Agolf Twitler. But I never thought I would have to call him an incitor of terrorism against the United States of America.

I am appalled and I am livid.

River
Every time you find humor in a difficult situation, you win. -Snoopy

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Hagoth
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by Hagoth » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:45 pm

The Three Amigos working together to keep the Democratic party in power:
Image
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by moksha » Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:15 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:39 pm
moksha wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:20 pm
I have a hard time with how brazen this BS has gotten.
I've got so much more.
I sense you have a truckload.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by wtfluff » Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:28 pm

alas wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:24 am
So, anyway, I think should start the rumor that trump was always and still is a democrat. Just look at all he accomplished for the democrats. He brought them back to power. Nobody could have done a better job of destroying the Republican Party. Nobody.
Holy Cheetos Batman!

As usual, the rationality in Alas' post is causing me to re-think my thinking. :D
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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deacon blues
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by deacon blues » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:24 pm

Trump finally concedes Biden will become president
PUBLISHED THU, JAN 7 20217:22 PM ESTUPDATED THU, JAN 7 20218:26 PM EST

I just imagined I heard the ghost of Harry Truman whisper in Trump's ear, "Donald, the buck stops here."
God is Love. God is Truth

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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:13 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:03 am
SN, people are going to disagree with some of the things you say, just as I think you will push back against what I'm saying. Give us a rational argument, or a polite rant, but for your own sake "make allowance for our doubting too." (Kipling) Don't let a persecution complex cloud your posts too much. And don't take yourself so seriously
I engage in these conversations as a privilege that you kind folk grant me. I find them enlightening. There have been a fair number of folks that agreed with me over the years. Unfortunately, it feels awkward. I am still friends with a few people from here that seem to get me.

I honestly am not trying to convince anyone. I mean, I enjoy the conversations, I want you hear me, if you will. I want you to know I feel cheated, I'm not really trying to convince you that I was.

If you were actually capable of understanding why I feel cheated I wouldn't even need to convince you.

I want you to know that there are 70 million plus voters out there who feel betrayed by you. I know you don't understand why. I just want you to know that they feel betrayed.
Last edited by SaidNobody on Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DPRoberts
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by DPRoberts » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:15 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:00 am
This is pretty laughable. LOL

My guys have already identified them as Antifa. One of them has a communist tattoo on his hand. The other one has some sort of tattoo on his chest was supposedly means some sort of fascist thing but I don't remember what it was.
"Your guys" lack credibility. The extreme Right in this country, lacking any good ideas, have instead invested in a huge propaganda infrastructure to exploit the credulous, making them devotees of a political cult.
SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:00 am

Here's the deal. I don't think that Antifa is actually Democrats. They might be.But Antifa is a fascist philosophy. Democrats in general don't like fascist philosophies. Or so they claim.
Wrong: the very term Antifa is short for antifascist. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... story.html

SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:00 am
But you need to, for your own understanding, know what facism is. Many people confuse the label fascist with Republican. That is like labeling your Goldenseal as Cinnamon.
I think I have a very good idea of what fascism is. The thing about fascism is that it looks a little different wherever it occurs. If you want to know what American fascism looks like you need look no further than DJT. Donald Trump is the face of American fascism. His tactics from his first day in office speak for themselves. The sad thing about the tragic insurrection yesterday is that it is not the least bit surprising given the Trump has been inciting those kinds of people from the beginning.
SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:00 am
So let's call this what it is. Americans attacking American institutions. If this was actually Republicans, what would we put the score at, 1000:3? Aside from that I don't know that any of us here can prove anything else. Unless someone can prove that one of them is a German or something like that.

The protesters at this particular rally were there because they are tired of their American institutions being attacked. Not only are there police stations being burned to the ground, but the laws that are protected are freedoms are being attacked as well. That is why they were there.
I do not know why they were there, other than that Trump asked them. And in the end what they did was at his bidding.
SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:00 am
Maybe some group of Trump supporters figured that they would get their point across by attacking the Capitol building. I'm sure many were tempted. I think Trump calling these people to Washington was a mistake. I think he might have believed the other things were going to happen. But it gave the true enemy an opportunity to really make them look bad.

So you go ahead and think that they were Trump supporters. And I'm not even sure why that matters one way or another. Bernie supporter shot one of the senators. That make all Bernie supporters evil? Another Democrat sell it attacked Senator Rand Paul. Does that make all of Democrats evil? There are radicals in both teams. The enemy isn't the party or the people It's the spirit in which we treat each other.
I am sorry that you do not see the threat to all of our freedoms posed by Donald Trump and his enablers. I am also sorry that you see this in terms of right vs. left. Authoritarianism and totalitarianism can come from either side. If you think a Republican regime is the answer to our problems, let me leave you with a quote to think about.
Senator Margaret Smith wrote: Yet to displace it [current Democratic administration] with a Republican regime embracing a philosophy that lacks political integrity or intellectual honesty would prove equally disastrous to this nation. The nation sorely needs a Republican victory. But I don't want to see the Republican Party ride to political victory on the Four Horsemen of Calumny -- Fear, Ignorance, Bigotry and Smear.

I doubt if the Republican Party could -- simply because I don't believe the American people will uphold any political party that puts political exploitation above national interest.
I hope she was right with her last statement. It is frightening how close we have come to proving her wrong.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

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DPRoberts
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by DPRoberts » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:29 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:13 pm
deacon blues wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:03 am
SN, people are going to disagree with some of the things you say, just as I think you will push back against what I'm saying. Give us a rational argument, or a polite rant, but for your own sake "make allowance for our doubting too." (Kipling) Don't let a persecution complex cloud your posts too much. And don't take yourself so seriously
I engage in these conversations as a privilege that you kind folk grant me. I find them enlightening. There have been a fair number of folks that agreed with me over the years. Unfortunately, it feels awkward. I am still friends with a few people from here that seem to get me.

I honestly am not trying to convince anyone. I mean, I enjoy the conversations, I want you hear me, is you will. I want you to know I feel cheated, I'm not really trying to convince you that I was.

If you were actually capable of understanding why I feel cheated I wouldn't even need to convince you.

I want you to know that there are 70 mill ion plus voters out there who feel betrayed by you. I know you don't understand why. I just want you to know that they feel betrayed.
SN, thank you for your participation and letting us know how you feel. I don't believe all of those 70 million voters bought the whole package and are true believers in Trumpianity, but there are a lot of those people out there, and somehow we all need to get along. So at the very least we need to keep talking to each other however large our differences.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born

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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:51 pm

DPRoberts wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:29 pm
SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:13 pm
deacon blues wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:03 am
SN, people are going to disagree with some of the things you say, just as I think you will push back against what I'm saying. Give us a rational argument, or a polite rant, but for your own sake "make allowance for our doubting too." (Kipling) Don't let a persecution complex cloud your posts too much. And don't take yourself so seriously
I engage in these conversations as a privilege that you kind folk grant me. I find them enlightening. There have been a fair number of folks that agreed with me over the years. Unfortunately, it feels awkward. I am still friends with a few people from here that seem to get me.

I honestly am not trying to convince anyone. I mean, I enjoy the conversations, I want you hear me, is you will. I want you to know I feel cheated, I'm not really trying to convince you that I was.

If you were actually capable of understanding why I feel cheated I wouldn't even need to convince you.

I want you to know that there are 70 mill ion plus voters out there who feel betrayed by you. I know you don't understand why. I just want you to know that they feel betrayed.
SN, thank you for your participation and letting us know how you feel. I don't believe all of those 70 million voters bought the whole package and are true believers in Trumpianity, but there are a lot of those people out there, and somehow we all need to get along. So at the very least we need to keep talking to each other however large our differences.
Thank you DP for understanding. Our differences are usually not the problem. It's how we treat each other.I don't go around bragging about how you guys treat me, but I do feel Spirit of camaraderie here. Thank you.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:05 pm

alas wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:24 am
There is a name for where one delusional person convinces those around him that his delusion is real, in spite of much evidence to the contrary. But I think the DSM would short circuit over the current display of mass delusion.
I think the name that you are looking for is "Reality." Whoever can convince the most people of their delusion is the winner.
So, anyway, I think should start the rumor that trump was always and still is a democrat. Just look at all he accomplished for the democrats. He brought them back to power. Nobody could have done a better job of destroying the Republican Party. Nobody.
One of the unexplainable mysteries of this election does swirl around this idea. Trump supposedly lost the election. People predicted the blue wave. But Republicans picked up every toss-up seat. We picked up seats in California that we haven't held in 30 years. Even though Trump will not make it back to the office He has positioned Republicans better than they have been for many years.

He has also started the inevitable question, are Democrats really cheats? There is enough history to answer that question with an affirmative yes. Trump isn't done. I was sweeping up the mess here tonight and realize that there was actually a couple of pieces still on the board. Trump could play a checkmate in the next few weeks, if he wanted to. He saw to that yesterday.

Sometimes I don't know how to answer or address some of the comments that I receive. Believe it or not I actually make an effort to understand the other side.

I have lived through a fair amount of crazy political/religious conflicts. And I understand cult mentality. I understand how communities can lose their power and their resources to shenanigans of tricky politicians or religious leaders.

I come here and hear a comment like "crazy orange man bad" or something like that. And I try to explain why some people might appreciate what he did. I think maybe one person on this board thanked me for my perspective. The rest of you have continued to mock me and my perspective. Which is fine I'm pretty used to it. But what I hear and see here mostly are people who already have the answers even though they don't seem to understand why there is so much anger.

To understand is to forgive. It is a simple law of the universe. That you cannot forgive reveals that you cannot understand. I know that I carry my own bag of unforgiveness, and so I continue to seek understanding.

Cnsl1
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by Cnsl1 » Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:15 am

I feel for you, SN. And I know several other people who believe similar to what you seen to believe. I have some very kind, Christ like friends who feel strongly that the election was rigged. They also believe Joseph Smith translated the BofM from gold plates and that Russell Nelson talks with God, and while I respect their opinion, I can't agree with it. IMO, those last two opinions are about their faith, their deep seated and well indoctrinated religious faith. What bothers me is when they take that same fervor of religious faith and place it in politics, which is supposed to be more about (at least in this country) governance, debate, compromise, and working toward solutions that are best for all. It's ok to compromise and change your views in the political realm because no one has all the answers and the questions are continually changing. It's not helpful to lock in to one idea or one mindset or one person and follow that blindly. It's particularly important to consider the data, look at the all the information with a critical eye and be open to change. Sure, it's ok to have guiding principals, but you have to be flexible or there is war. I have long resented the polemic us-them nature of the two party system, as much as I resent a stake president telling me what my family goals are. I hate it when I hear democraps or repuliguns say we have to get power from them, or they are this way or that way. The out group homogeneity bias effect is outrageously rampant in politics and it always irritates me.

So I feel for you. I know several people like you. I also know even more people who voted for Trump just because they will always vote conservative. They can't stand the man, but they still voted for him because they are scared of anything not conservative. I feel for them too, because I think they believe they're supposed to vote conservative because of their religion. They will vote Rep even if they have no idea. I know some Dems who do the same. My own liberal daughter, upon voting for the first time this last year (and voting beside me with her mail in ballot), said "I don't know these so I'm just going to vote for the Democrats". I said, whoa there girl! Don't do that. Look it up, read what they are saying. If you still can't decide, just leave it blank. If course I told her that if she votes for Trump she'll be disowned and out of the will (kidding).

I just think, SM, that you're arguments and reasoning are ignorant, and I don't like your heavy use of the straw man and red herring type arguments. It doesn't help your cause IMO. Idk why that lady got shot. Was she breaking the law? Of course she was. Did she deserve to die? Of course not. I don't think she deserved to get shot, just arrested. And like I said before, I don't give a damn what the political persuasions are of the jackasses that stormed and broke into and trashed the Capitol (and I know some only walked around and took selfies), but they broke the law, and it wasn't just a little thing they did wrong either. Some did worse than others, but there was some bad stuff went down. I'm totally fine with a group walking down the street, peacefully holding their signs and spouting whatever batshit crazy bunk they want, and standing outside the capitol singing praises to Adonph Twitler (River you crack me up). What I'm NOT ok with is the president of this nation and his cronies inciting, encouraging, and asking his followers to STOP a constitutionally delineated process. With his lawyer suggesting force. WTF was he thinking? This isn't democracy, but you listen to these people and they seem to really think that they HAVE to storm the Capitol in order to SAVE their freedoms.

It's back to this issue of misinformation. A truck load of people have latched on to an alternate reality, and yes yes, definitely there's another set of people with their teeth locked on to a completely different universe. Neither can fathom the other world. But there is also a large group of people somewhere in the middle trying to get all y'all to take off your goofy glasses and stop looking at the circus mirrors and take a chill for a minute. Extreme thinking with no tolerance for a different view is dangerous.

So.. I'm pissed at Trump. He allowed this.. no, he promoted this. He piled on the kindling and poured on the gas and then lit the match. I expect better from the leader of the free world. I expect him NOT to be an extremist. But... What did I expect? What has he shown us? This is who he is. Before the election even started.. he said if I lose, it's cuz the election is rigged. What's that? There's a term called self handicapping when you make excuses for losing before something even happens... Such as saying, well if I can't make this shot it's because my hand has been hurting. If I don't win this game it's because they cheated. If I win, it's because I'm great, I'm a genius. If you win? You cheated! I think Don is spiraling down fast. His boat is sinking and many of those close to him are jumping out.

Presidents should act better than that. They should also keep their pants on while they're at work. Ain't that right, Bill?!

I think Alas figured it out, though. That Trump is one sneaky genius after all. He has been a Democrap all along! In four short years he destroyed the Rep party to the point that Mormons think Romney is Beelzebub and someone as decrepit and lackluster as Biden can be the president.

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Hagoth
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by Hagoth » Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:47 am

Cnsl1 wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:15 am
So.. I'm pissed at Trump. He allowed this.. no, he promoted this.
I am equally pissed at the enablers who created the environment in which this could happen. The Republican senate and congress sycophants like Cruz and Hawley, Fox news and the other propaganda-for-hire commentators, the radio talk show hatemongers, local government leaders, and everyone else who took self-serving advantage of people's fears and ignorance to empower themselves and sell products. There are a lot of people who need to have a day of reckoning. Six senators went back in there and voted to overthrow the people's vote after they had helped fire up a terrorist attack on the capitol. And did they stand there and welcome their friends who showed up to help them overturn the vote? Hell no. They ran for their lives. And then they went right back in there and gave the terrorists a big thumbs-up vote.

BTW, the primary instigators of the insurrection have now been identified. Not Antifa, but self-proclaimed white nationalists and Q-anon promoters.

Also BTW, dictators all over the world are loving this. Finally the US has a guy like them in office.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:08 am

Hagoth wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:47 am
Cnsl1 wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:15 am
So.. I'm pissed at Trump. He allowed this.. no, he promoted this.
I am equally pissed at the enablers who created the environment in which this could happen. The Republican senate and congress sycophants like Cruz and Hawley, Fox news and the other propaganda-for-hire commentators, the radio talk show hatemongers, local government leaders, and everyone else who took self-serving advantage of people's fears and ignorance to empower themselves and sell products. There are a lot of people who need to have a day of reckoning. Six senators went back in there and voted to overthrow the people's vote after they had helped fire up a terrorist attack on the capitol. And did they stand there and welcome their friends who showed up to help them overturn the vote? Hell no. They ran for their lives. And then they went right back in there and gave the terrorists a big thumbs-up vote.

BTW, the primary instigators of the insurrection have now been identified. Not Antifa, but self-proclaimed white nationalists and Q-anon promoters.

Also BTW, dictators all over the world are loving this. Finally the US has a guy like them in office.
If you had demonstrated any measure of equal pissed-ness when BLM was burning down the city and murdering cops it might take you seriously. But yeah..... let's move on.

I hear in almost every post things like sycophants, enablers, ignorant followers, etc.

Then you hear things like six senators went in and voted to overthrow the will of the people. It seems like you haven't heard a single word that I have said. This election was stolen. This election is not the will of the people. Stating that it is the will of the people is dishonesty because you will not allow the investigation to determine if it actually is. That is why these people are pissed. We can lose an election. We have done it before. We didn't even burn shit down. But you are not allowing the investigations that we're asking for. There is a massive amount of evidence that there was fraud. There is video and testimony and stolen laptops and stolen encryption keys witnesses of mail-in ballots that were never folded, witnesses that Trump votes were thrown into the trash, witnesses from truck drivers that forms were actually filled out and shipped to other states, over 10,000 witnesses on sworn affidavits willing to put their freedom at risk to share their story.

You will not hear it. You block it. So you coming, at least to me, with the nerve to say that six senators voted to overthrow the will of the people It is pure ignorance, hatred, blindness, stupidity, I don't even know how many words to put to it. You stole the election. There's just simply no other layer above that we're talking about. Until there is an investigation into these allegations of fraud none of us are going to believe that Democrats won this election. Simple as that. I don't believe it. 39% of those poll nationwide believe that the reflection was rigged. because this is a democracy that isn't somehow enough to make anybody care. But it's also a republic which means that our individual rights should be protected no matter what. That idea has been thrown out.

So you walk around for the next 4 years on yourself righteous high horse thinking all these people who are not accepting the election or somehow criminals, this election is a fraud. When we tried to validate it we were blocked at every turn. So go be pissed. I really don't care.

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deacon blues
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by deacon blues » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:15 am

The title of the thread is "Graceful Transfer of Power." In keeping the transfer "graceful" I hope that Democrats don't get too vindictive. Talk of impeachment at this point seems unproductive. I was alive when Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon, and I still think it was the right thing to do, although many thought it seemed corrupt.
When I was a kid the rule was, "don't kick your opponent when they're down. This allows opponents to save face, and avoids creating martyrs. Two wrongs don't make a right. :|
God is Love. God is Truth

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