Graceful Transfer of Power

Chat about a topic supported by books, TED Talks, podcasts, personal experience, philosophies of mankind mingled with humor (shout out to IOT), and maybe we’ll even do a google hangout or conference call once a month.
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MoPag
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by MoPag » Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:21 pm

Holy sh!t snacks y'all.....
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:38 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:01 pm
Apparently a woman was shot out on the grounds, but details are still vague. There was a heart attack and a couple of people who hurt themselves due to attempting feats beyond their athletic ability.
Yes, a Republican woman was shot in the chest. Not is a quite sure who did it. Antifa put out an "all-call" a few days ago to have their members to dress like MAGA folks, but to wear their hats backward. I'm not sure if they will unravel this. This is why a civil war is so futile. Who do you get pissed at?

One thing that is scary is truck drivers have said they would cut off supplies to some cities that are the "problem." It's a scary day folks. But hey, keep up the "you stupid Trump supporters" talk. They will get us to respect you and give a shit what you think.

SMH Like seriously, it's like you guys think you are so righteous that we would welcome your insults.

In my belief system, Christ is the spirit of respect, in its many forms. The anti-Christ is the spirit of disrespect in its many forms. When you think it is ok to disrespect people, there is only one result you can expect.

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Hagoth
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by Hagoth » Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:15 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:21 pm
Almost all of antifa is a white.
At least the one person I've heard of who claimed to be an Antifa member was white. Maybe the other three are too. The vast majority of them don't actually exist.

But all of that is beside the point. There was an act of sedition against the United States of America today. Are you ok with that?
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Red Ryder
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:44 pm

Is that Jesus on the left?

Maybe this IS the second coming...

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deacon blues
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by deacon blues » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:16 pm

I've been trying to avoid this thread, but in a moment of weakness I gave in and here I am. Damn. Let me just say I enjoyed Fluff's "Cheeto in Chief" comment. A little humor is OK on such a sad day. It helps me cope with the Biden's "Satanic smile" comment from a Sunday school teacher I recall back in 2012. :lol: :roll: I know, I should forgive and forget. :roll:

Seriously, I know Trump works for some people. I would agree that he did good things in foreign policies areas, and, like Nixon, the press made him a punching bag, but I feel Jesus's message about the mote and the beam would be very applicable to Trump if he could only see it.

Yes, I can turn the "mote/beam message back on myself as well. I admit I could be wrong. Sadly, when people get violent somebody will end up turning the other cheek (get greased, or as Joseph Smith might say: "used up."), and ninety-nine times out of a hundred it will be the weak. (google Crispus Attucks) :cry: They that live by the sword may die by the sword. :shock: There is a lot of wisdom in these words of Jesus. I feel that the religious right has gotten either prideful or crazy- or a little of both. :(

It's been a long time since the folly of the Civil War, WWI, and WWII. Will we forget the lessons of history, and have to repeat them? I don't want my kids and Grandkids to have to fight in an ideological, or a literal Civil War.
God is Love. God is Truth

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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:37 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:16 pm
I've been trying to avoid this thread, but in a moment of weakness I gave in and here I am. Damn. Let me just say I enjoyed Fluff's "Cheeto in Chief" comment. A little humor is OK on such a sad day. It helps me cope with the Biden's "Satanic smile" comment from a Sunday school teacher I recall back in 2012. :lol: :roll: I know, I should forgive and forget. :roll:

Seriously, I know Trump works for some people. I would agree that he did good things in foreign policies areas, and, like Nixon, the press made him a punching bag, but I feel Jesus's message about the mote and the beam would be very applicable to Trump if he could only see it.

Yes, I can turn the "mote/beam message back on myself as well. I admit I could be wrong. Sadly, when people get violent somebody will end up turning the other cheek (get greased, or as Joseph Smith might say: "used up."), and ninety-nine times out of a hundred it will be the weak. (google Crispus Attucks) :cry: They that live by the sword may die by the sword. :shock: There is a lot of wisdom in these words of Jesus. I feel that the religious right has gotten either prideful or crazy- or a little of both. :(

It's been a long time since the folly of the Civil War, WWI, and WWII. Will we forget the lessons of history, and have to repeat them? I don't want my kids and Grandkids to have to fight in an ideological, or a literal Civil War.
Yeah, but. . . .

Somewhere along the road, I stopped arguing about what was right and wrong. I am more about functional and dysfunctional. Like, you brought a comment from 9 years ago that is still a burr under your saddle blanket. That is so often the stance of many people who are upset about Trump, or conservatives. I understand that you have the privilege of being upset if you want. But I am really supposed to hold that as relevant to this discussion? Others might say, "Trump caused this by telling Proud Boys to stand by." Really? 74M voters are pissed at a stolen election because Trump told Proud Boys to stand by 2-3 months ago?

I have said a dozen times that we haven't been heard. We have a complaint. We wanted justice and clarity. If it wasn't stolen, prove it. Show us the evidence we are asking for. You got your way. You blocked us in the courts. You could say, "I'm right."

Here is what I have been trying to say. This isn't functional. This isn't going to work and it isn't going to end well. I don't know what will happen. Oddly, I'm usually pretty arrogant about predicting what happens next. But, I'm not sure right now.

But, when truck drivers begin blocking products from getting into cities, are we going to argue about who is right? When I tell you, half of the country feels like you have spit in their face, and don't want anything to do with you, are you going to argue about who is right? You might pat yourself on the back about being right, but you just created the most dysfunctional event in America has seen since the Civil War.

But, if what I'm hearing from Congress is true, congratulations on being right.

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moksha
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by moksha » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:47 pm

Captain Moroni quote is part of today's US Capitol Sedition mob take over.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... _capitol/?

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Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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moksha
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by moksha » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:56 pm

Twitter is debating whether to permanently kick Trump off their service.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Hagoth
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by Hagoth » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:06 pm

You don't need to convince us of anything, SN. You need to take it up with the judges of the 60+ lawsuits, the Attourney General, the Republican election officials, the Supreme Court... they are the ones calling bullshit on Trump's conspiracy theories. You keep talking about the poor 74 million voters who didn't get their way. Have you considered that the 81 million of us who voted for Biden also feel like we count?

And blaming Antifa? Nope, sorry you don't get to blame this on anybody else. This was people Trump called patriots. He fired these people up and sat back quietly and let it happen.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:23 pm

moksha wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:56 pm
Twitter is debating whether to permanently kick Trump off their service.
How do you feel about that?

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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:28 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:06 pm
You don't need to convince us of anything, SN. You need to take it up with the judges of the 60+ lawsuits, the Attourney General, the Republican election officials, the Supreme Court... they are the ones calling bullshit on Trump's conspiracy theories. You keep talking about the poor 74 million voters who didn't get their way. Have you considered that the 81 million of us who voted for Biden also feel like we count?

And blaming Antifa? Nope, sorry you don't get to blame this on anybody else. This was people Trump called patriots. He fired these people up and sat back quietly and let it happen.
I gave up trying to convince you guys of anything a long time ago. However, obviously if I could take it up with the judges or the attorney general or anyone for that matter, I would.

I can blame antifa anything I want given the precedence that you used to blame Trump supporters. I don't like them. I think they are evil. There is no deed to disgusting to be placed upon them.

Hey you often hear the argument that they're not real. They're an idea.

Trump actually tweeted out a video message telling people that there should be no violence and that they should go home. Trump sent out three messages of similar kind telling people that we were of law and order and that there should be no violence.

Twitter actually suspended his account and blocked those three messages. Now, of all the messages that Trump has sent out why would they block the ones where he is calling for peace and order among his supporters and for them to go home?

And as far as my position is without me going into it thousands of points of evidence, that whole thing was a staged event. There might have been some Republicans in there but most of it was the same antifa insiders and it burned down our cities.

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moksha
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by moksha » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:09 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:23 pm
moksha wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:56 pm
Twitter is debating whether to permanently kick Trump off their service.
How do you feel about that?
Egging people on to riot and destroy the Capitol needs to be banned. Free speech is precious, but you still cannot yell "fire" in a theater without people getting trampled to death. People cannot give in to criminal narcissists who refuse to accept reality.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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moksha
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by moksha » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:20 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:28 pm
And as far as my position is without me going into it thousands of points of evidence, that whole thing was a staged event. There might have been some Republicans in there but most of it was the same antifa insiders and it burned down our cities.
I have a hard time with how brazen this BS has gotten.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:34 pm

moksha wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:09 pm
SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:23 pm
moksha wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:56 pm
Twitter is debating whether to permanently kick Trump off their service.
How do you feel about that?
Egging people on to riot and destroy the Capitol needs to be banned. Free speech is precious, but you still cannot yell "fire" in a theater without people getting trampled to death. People cannot give in to criminal narcissists who refuse to accept reality.
That's right, you thought the people pressed out of Lafayette Park were peaceful protesters. Even though they had set a church on fire just the night before. That fences had to be erected and secret Service deployed to keep them from attacking the White House. I can see why this whole event is confusing to you.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:39 pm

moksha wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:20 pm
SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:28 pm
And as far as my position is without me going into it thousands of points of evidence, that whole thing was a staged event. There might have been some Republicans in there but most of it was the same antifa insiders and it burned down our cities.
I have a hard time with how brazen this BS has gotten.
I've got so much more. I watched so many hours of antifa attacking different cities Did I actually recognize several of the maneuvers right there at the Capitol building. The amateur battle gear. Even the way they duck in and under fences and different things like that and all too familiar. You can blame who you want. Just know I'm not accepting that this was a Republican planned event. I love how we take the blame for so much violence yet and when you look at the videos it's always the left and teeth of people doing the attacks. They attack women and children elderly folks right there in the street. They never gets to the mainstream media though. Some people think we are trying to make it up.

Cnsl1
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by Cnsl1 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:48 am

Duplicate post
Last edited by Cnsl1 on Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Cnsl1
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by Cnsl1 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:50 am

I know I'm preaching to the choir and one guy who's not even in the same congregation, but I watched the whole f'ing thing go down today as I am in quarantine and had to stay home. I watched coverage from at least 10 different stations, watched it unfold from the start, becoming more and more appalled and flabbergasted as it transpired. I kinda thought the crowd of trumplicans (and let's be honest, that's what they were) could get rowdy because, good grief, their Royal Highness told them to march to the Capitol and fight and that they needed to be forceful. Yes yes, he DID tell them to be peaceful but that was after they'd already broken in and broken the law! That was AFTER Biden called him out and asked him to make a statement. Yes, Twitter pulled his account, but that was not until tonight. Twist the facts and twist the facts and now try to blame the illegal stuff on antifa.

In my opinion, whoever did the crimes should be arrested. I don't care what you're persuasion is. But it's a fact that Trump led them down this gulley and set them on their way. Most of the people inside the Capitol didn't appear to be destructive, but more like annoying, insensitive redneck tourists. Still, they were not supposed to be in there! They broke in. They should face the consequences of that act. It could have gone much much much worse. Fortunately, most of the thousands at the Capitol seemed like garden variety gullible white folks, and while prone to aggressiveness, not really the criminal type. Some were downright mean, some completely whacky, but in my opinion, Trump could have easily stopped that mess before it even started, EVEN IF he does actually believe the election was rigged.

I think Occam's Razor applies well in these situations, including this one.

What makes more sense?
1) there is a grand conspiracy at hand. Judges that are appointed by Trump who say there's no evidence of fraud are lying. People who voted for him and campaigned mightily for him decide they don't want to help him anymore even though there is evidence to support his case. Multiple courts in multiple states toss it out cuz they're in on the conspiracy. Antifa infiltrates the peaceful Trumpers and trash the Capitol while dressed as redneck MAGAtes. Just about everyone close to Trump starts baling out, except those who are the stable geniuses. Every media source is corrupted and the press is all fake.

Or 2). Trump is a selfish narcissist who cannot handle losing and cannot admit he lost. Lots of people like to believe conspiracy theories. And, Cruz and Hawley are more concerned about power an d becoming president than serving their country.

The simplest explanation is usually the most correct.

hmb
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by hmb » Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:30 am

Cnsl1 wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:50 am

In my opinion, whoever did the crimes should be arrested. I don't care what you're persuasion is. But it's a fact that Trump led them down this gulley and set them on their way.
I agree with this statement. Live video will be studied. Arrests will be made. We will see who is doing the violent, including breaking and entering, rioting. The police will be investigated for possibly allowing the breach, and heads will roll if something is found. I will accept the findings and hope for strict prosecution. Regardless of who did the violence, maybe a mixture, Trump is ultimately responsible. He asked for this, his son asked for this, his lawyer asked for this, a bunch of our congress asked for this.

Watching all this unfold, yesterday, had me wondering why so many reporters and others claim to be shocked by the events??? Did they not realize this was going to happen? Were any of you surprised??? The only surprise to me was how woefully unprepared law enforcement was. I'd love to know how the dude holding the sign with BOM scripture can't see this whole craziness as King-men vs. Freemen? Overtake vs people's choice. If evidence showed election fraud, this would have been handled in the courts.

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Hagoth
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by Hagoth » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:14 am

The perpetrators will be identified. They will be Trumpers, not Antifa. Then the other Trumpers will disown them by claiming that the evil left "got to" those particular Trumpers. Or they'll just invent another conspiracy theory out of thin air like they always do. We've seen it all too many times before.

The name for the federal crime committed by Donald Trump and everyone who was complicit in this treachery is Seditious Conspiracy: 18 U.S. Code § 2384

"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both."

Prison time for all of these traitors please, and especially for the guy who incited the mob by calling them to show up and telling them to "be wild," and promising to march with them but then hightailed it back to safety where he could pop some popcorn and enjoy the show from a distance. And to his henchman who called for trial by combat. And while we're at it, let's take a good look at the finances and tax records and clean the entire closet.

Time for the 25th Amendment. Punish the spoiled children and let the grown ups try to get some work done.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by Hagoth » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:19 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:28 pm
Trump actually tweeted out a video message telling people that there should be no violence and that they should go home.
Yeah, such a sincere message:

You are totally justified in what you are feeling and doing.
go home now
You're great people we love you, keep up the good work!
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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