THANK YOU OHIO

[hmb]

It's easier to breathe today. It's nice to see that fellow Ohioans are paying attention to the threat on the state's constitution. A tiny step for a big victory.

[Angel]

It's easier to breathe today. It's nice to see that fellow Ohioans are paying attention to the threat on the state's constitution. A tiny step for a big victory.

I'm not from Ohio, so had to look it up.

This?
"Ohio voters on Tuesday definitively rejected a closely watched proposal known as Issue 1 that would've made it more difficult to amend the state constitution, delivering a crucial victory to pro-choice rights supporters ahead of a November vote on enshrining reproductive rights in the Ohio Constitution."

I think a lot of guys don't realize the number of complications, miscarriages, and abuse that goes on.

Where life both starts and stops is fuzzy.. Some places define death as cessation of brain function - the existence of beta / gamma brainwaves (not delta) seem a good identifier of life to me.

[hmb]

It's easier to breathe today. It's nice to see that fellow Ohioans are paying attention to the threat on the state's constitution. A tiny step for a big victory.

I'm not from Ohio, so had to look it up.

This?
"Ohio voters on Tuesday definitively rejected a closely watched proposal known as Issue 1 that would've made it more difficult to amend the state constitution, delivering a crucial victory to pro-choice rights supporters ahead of a November vote on enshrining reproductive rights in the Ohio Constitution."

I think a lot of guys don't realize the number of complications, miscarriages, and abuse that goes on.

Where life both starts and stops is fuzzy.. Some places define death as cessation of brain function - the existence of beta / gamma brainwaves (not delta) seem a good identifier of life to me.

Yes, that's the one. A victorious NO on 1 is the one that gave so many of us relief. I know that this election was created because of the abortion issue come November, but it would have other negative consequences. So this win is more than just abortion rights.

The abortion issue is a tough one. I understand why someone would say life begins at conception. I don't agree, but I understand. There are a good number of people who disagree with abortion as a form of birth control, but draw the line at forced birth, especially when health of mom/fetus is involved. No one should be able to decide for everyone at what point life begins. No one should be able to dictate which birth control methods are legal and which should be condemned.

[Angel]

It's easier to breathe today. It's nice to see that fellow Ohioans are paying attention to the threat on the state's constitution. A tiny step for a big victory.

I'm not from Ohio, so had to look it up.

This?
"Ohio voters on Tuesday definitively rejected a closely watched proposal known as Issue 1 that would've made it more difficult to amend the state constitution, delivering a crucial victory to pro-choice rights supporters ahead of a November vote on enshrining reproductive rights in the Ohio Constitution."

I think a lot of guys don't realize the number of complications, miscarriages, and abuse that goes on.

Where life both starts and stops is fuzzy.. Some places define death as cessation of brain function - the existence of beta / gamma brainwaves (not delta) seem a good identifier of life to me.

Yes, that's the one. A victorious NO on 1 is the one that gave so many of us relief. I know that this election was created because of the abortion issue come November, but it would have other negative consequences. So this win is more than just abortion rights.

The abortion issue is a tough one. I understand why someone would say life begins at conception. I don't agree, but I understand. There are a good number of people who disagree with abortion as a form of birth control, but draw the line at forced birth, especially when health of mom/fetus is involved. No one should be able to decide for everyone at what point life begins. No one should be able to dictate which birth control methods are legal and which should be condemned.

Freakonomics is a good book - older now, but good. Survival of the fittest? or survival of ... well...
The opening scene of movie "Idiocracy" captures it well:
https://youtu.be/sP2tUW0HDHA

that was harsh, but ...

Let's say someone will die without a liver. Guess you men need to donate your liver - your body is needed to keep them alive. Should we call anyone who refuses to donate their liver, their kidney, their organs - call them a murderer?
Let's see how far men go to keep others alive. Let's legislate carving everyone 's bodies up and forcing everyone to sustain - with their own bodies and organs - the lives of others. It's only fair, right?

[Just This Guy]

I try to avoid politics, but this is one that fascinates me.

Back in 2009-2010 when the ACA (Affordable Care Act)* was being pushed through Washington, one of the big rallying cries from conservatives was that the law would allow for government to have too much control over a person's health care. They went as far as to claim there were be government run "death panels" where the the government could literally decide who should live and die. They said that the government should not get involved in making health care decisions. That should only be a matter between the patient and their doctor.

Fast forward to today and guess what conservatives are trying to force onto people? They are setting up thhe government to make medical decisions by deciding who should and who should not get speficic medical procedure. (abortions) They are not consulting with the doctor or the patient, they are making the decision for them. They are literally doing the thing that they fought so hard to keep from happening 15 years ago. I find is both scary and humorous that extreme conservatives have become the thing that used to hate.

I guess the says is true that if you go far enough to the left or far enough to the right, you end up at the same place.


*I have plenty of objections to ACA, the least of which was how it was handled by supporters who were trying to push it through as fast as possible. Some of the bill was needed and long overdue, but a lot of it was designed to better insurance companies, not necessarily end people.

[Hagoth]

When it comes to abortion, I will pull out my standard comment about black-and-white thinking.

The most parsimonious answer, as far as I'm concerned, is that none of these is a person.

Personally, I am conflicted about abortion, but I recognize that it is not a simple either/or proposition. Should religion-based politics be wielded to remove someone's' right to take a morning after pill that affects a tiny blob of a few cells the size of a pin point... because it is a person? That is not science, it's an arbitrary, faith based opinion. I fully support any woman's right to not take that pill if it conflicts with her personal moral code, but not her desire to require everyone to march to the orders of her religious authority figures. Likewise, I will continue to eat eggs for breakfast while supporting a vegan's right not to eat them.

[Mayan_Elephant]

When it comes to abortion, I will pull out my standard comment about black-and-white thinking.

The most parsimonious answer, as far as I'm concerned, is that none of these is a person.

Personally, I am conflicted about abortion, but I recognize that it is not a simple either/or proposition. Should religion-based politics be wielded to remove someone's' right to take a morning after pill that affects a tiny blob of a few cells the size of a pin point... because it is a person? That is not science, it's an arbitrary, faith based opinion. I fully support any woman's right to not take that pill if it conflicts with her personal moral code, but not her desire to require everyone to march to the orders of her religious authority figures. Likewise, I will continue to eat eggs for breakfast while supporting a vegan's right not to eat them.

Yep. I have never eaten a hamburger on lettuce. The lettuce belongs between the bread. But sure, all the best to all the glutonless. Abortion does not concern me so I am not concerned. I am sure if I was concerned that somebody would think I was wrong as usual.

[Hagoth]

I am sure if I was concerned that somebody would think I was wrong as usual.

Anything any of us say on this topic is wrong from somebody's perspective. (even that, no doubt!)

I will gladly accept that abortion is against the will of God as soon as God shows that he cares enough by, I dunno, appearing in the sky and telling all of us how he feels - or maybe appearing on an Oprah special - rather than leaving it up to people who can't agree on anything else about him except that he wants them to collect as much money in his name as possible.

In the meantime, maybe it shouldn't matter at all what old men think about it.