Monopoly and King and Serfs

Discussions about holding onto your faith and beliefs, whether by staying LDS or by exploring and participating in other churches or faiths. The belief in any higher power (including God, Christ, Buddha, or Jedi) is true in this forum. Be kind to others.
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Newme
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Monopoly and King and Serfs

Post by Newme » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:48 pm

Today, I was kind of proud of myself - for being able to sit through a lesson on the technicalities of Priesthood without getting upset. Well, partially, I've already accepted that although Priesthood can be used in chauvinistic ways, it also can inspire young and older men to serve and love more than they would without it. Still, I believe that I, as a woman have the ability to serve in similar ways - particularly to my children or others who have asked help from me. I've seen it happen - I feel the spirit about it now - so I don't really buy the idea that priesthood is limited to certain males who went through certain hoops. Still, I recognized that others did and do buy into that idea.

As I listened, I considered the details of how priesthood is organized with keys and who has authority to do what, as kind of like describing the rules and detailed instructions of a mix of an eternal Monopoly board game, and King and Serfs (where you try to work your way up) where you're playing with people who take the game deathly serious. Kind of funny and helped me to listen to this in a more objective way. And I think this way of interpreting this might be helpful in more emotional issues that bother me and others.

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MerrieMiss
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Re: Monopoly and King and Serfs

Post by MerrieMiss » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:08 pm

I say congratulations to anyone who can sit through a church meeting and keep their sanity. Sometimes I find listening to everything at church as quite amusing - a lot of people very invested, emotionally and intellectually, in something that really doesn't matter/doesn't exist/isn't true.

For another take on the game of monopoly, may I suggest the book The Monopolists by Mary Pilon? I thought it was a great read, and who knows, maybe it can work it's way into your metaphor too.
The true opposite of order is not disorder but freedom. Most profoundly, the true opposite of control is not chaos but self-control. -Jay Griffiths

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Newme
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Re: Monopoly and King and Serfs

Post by Newme » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:07 pm

MerrieMiss wrote:
Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:08 pm
I say congratulations to anyone who can sit through a church meeting and keep their sanity. Sometimes I find listening to everything at church as quite amusing - a lot of people very invested, emotionally and intellectually, in something that really doesn't matter/doesn't exist/isn't true.

For another take on the game of monopoly, may I suggest the book The Monopolists by Mary Pilon? I thought it was a great read, and who knows, maybe it can work it's way into your metaphor too.
Thanks. I'm sometimes in survival mode - trying to figure out ways to maintain my sanity.

I just read a summary and it's kind of funny that the game itself would inspire such greed - if it is as that book says.
You know what they say, "His-story is told by the victors."

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SaidNobody
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Re: Monopoly and King and Serfs

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:30 am

Newme wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:48 pm
Today, I was kind of proud of myself - for being able to sit through a lesson on the technicalities of Priesthood without getting upset. Well, partially, I've already accepted that although Priesthood can be used in chauvinistic ways, it also can inspire young and older men to serve and love more than they would without it. Still, I believe that I, as a woman have the ability to serve in similar ways - particularly to my children or others who have asked help from me. I've seen it happen - I feel the spirit about it now - so I don't really buy the idea that priesthood is limited to certain males who went through certain hoops. Still, I recognized that others did and do buy into that idea.

As I listened, I considered the details of how priesthood is organized with keys and who has authority to do what, as kind of like describing the rules and detailed instructions of a mix of an eternal Monopoly board game, and King and Serfs (where you try to work your way up) where you're playing with people who take the game deathly serious. Kind of funny and helped me to listen to this in a more objective way. And I think this way of interpreting this might be helpful in more emotional issues that bother me and others.
I appreciate this.

Money, kings, lords, priests, etcs, are all just pretend roles that we play into. Sometimes, I close my eyes and imagine what reality is like, and I find myself hiding in the bushes, on the plains of Africa, hunted, alone, hungry, afraid, etc.

All of this stuff we enjoy is based on us pretending or supporting someone's illusions of grandeur. Perhaps it started with a particularly good fighter that could protect the camp, or a talented woman that could mend the sick. But we observed talent and we worshiped it. And by giving that person our honor and submission, that person took upon them the spirit of propelled them further in the art. Soon leaders in fighting, farming, worship, healing, etc, emerged.

But all of that emerged by lending OUR faith and support to someone else. There is a real phenomenon where one person can channel the spirit of others, whether in courage, music, worship, healing, etc. There is a magic to consciousness, and it gets better the more we believe.

The Pope, or President of the Church, are just people, yet, they hold an office that like a focal point of the energy of those people that support them. Even if JS turns out to be nonredeemable slime, he created a position of focus for millions of people. That is real. Some don't want to believe in God, but by focusing energy in such a way, a massive, unstoppable force is created. A rock, cut without hand, rolls through the world.

This ability to shape energy into churches, schools, cities, civilization, etc, is nothing short of Godlike.

But, the question is, "how?" How do you focus millions of minds into a single cause? Or, going back some. How do you focus 5 minds into a single cause?

There must be a common need that cannot be met alone, or better somewhere else. But what did JS offer that couldn't be had at the local churches? You usually cannot simply steal people away from their sources of comfort. Obviously, people were wanting, or needing, something more than what was being offered.

His vision was a like a "iron rod" that people latched onto. People jumped in and played the game. And an very unique, very powerful force, emerged.

People are going to have a crisis of faith, because none of this is real. Money isn't real, the value of gold isn't real, rich and poor isn't real, it's all stuff we must believe in to experience. We have different monetary systems in our world, which are like different Gods. You have to believe in them for them to work. And, in a strange way, like money, even if you don't believe in my god, not believing in god at all makes it harder to relate to people. It would be like trying to go to France only to discover they don't use money there is no way for me to use their system.

While, I don't have the same vision of god that most Mormons do, I like the potential of the Mormon God. If he can stop being sexist and racist, there is a lot of good things to be had from him. The Mormon God is more ancient world style, with body, parts, and passions. This isn't a new idea, just new to Christians.

From my perspective, the universe/multiverse is big. So big, it is really quite beyond imagination. There are realms, and layers of life that can only be accessed by having the appropriate awareness for them. Imagine being a caveman, with all of the basic human parts, and stepping into this world. None of it would make sense, it would likely terrify your senses. How to get a drink, use the toilet, get food, ad nasaum?

Or even, being a farmer and stepping into the design rooms of high fashion? None of it would make sense. To access some realms, it literally takes imagination. It takes faith.

Early in the bible, it says, "have faith." After years of searching, I'm beginning to see why that is necessary. As I said, the universe is big, with layers and realms that we cannot even see yet. Here, we are all so sort of forced into a "common space." But when we aren't "here" out ability to connect and relate is strongly linked to our ability to believe.

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Re: Monopoly and King and Serfs

Post by Newme » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:06 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:30 am
Money, kings, lords, priests, etcs, are all just pretend roles that we play into.
It's funny when you realize it - almost as if there are predictable lines sometimes.
There is a real phenomenon where one person can channel the spirit of others, whether in courage, music, worship, healing, etc. There is a magic to consciousness, and it gets better the more we believe.
I've wondered about the difference between kind of praying for angelic/spiritual help... and doing some kind of seance. The latter, I was taught & still believe that if you try to "control" and summond spirits - you're going to get the lower variety who resonate with control. But then again, I think sometimes praying for help works - maybe it's a question of humility & serenity - trust in God/higher power.
But, the question is, "how?" How do you focus millions of minds into a single cause? Or, going back some. How do you focus 5 minds into a single cause?

There must be a common need that cannot be met alone, or better somewhere else. But what did JS offer that couldn't be had at the local churches? You usually cannot simply steal people away from their sources of comfort. Obviously, people were wanting, or needing, something more than what was being offered.
I've wondered, if it would be possible to have a church without worshipping Jesus as human sacrifice scapegoat.
Could people do without that - and just unify & be inspired based on God? Or do they really need a personification of spirituality - and someone to believe in who loves them so much he'd die for them.
Maybe it'll be a long time before many will be ready to let go of such an idol & symbol.
Maybe Jesus does represent all of the good they can consider - & is more humanly relatable than an abstract God.
And it could be also the parental authority - or "iron rod" idea that people seek to give them a type of guidance/crutch.
And, in a strange way, like money, even if you don't believe in my god, not believing in god at all makes it harder to relate to people.
As we were discussing on the other thread - God is defined in as many different ways as there are humans.
Yet, I do find it easier & much more enjoyable to relate with someone who has really thought about God and decided to believe in powers that they do not yet (& may never) understand.
From my perspective, the universe/multiverse is big. So big, it is really quite beyond imagination. There are realms, and layers of life that can only be accessed by having the appropriate awareness for them. Imagine being a caveman, with all of the basic human parts, and stepping into this world. None of it would make sense, it would likely terrify your senses. How to get a drink, use the toilet, get food, ad nasaum?
Yeah! I've thought of that... I think someone predicted something like a car - but they didn't even have the words for it.
In some ways, it scares me where we're going in the future - because it does seem like morality is taking a back seat to technology which generally results in more suffering. But in other ways, I'm exited for the future - if more people will kind of wake up and realize what they really want on a deep level - and how it's considering others too.
Early in the bible, it says, "have faith." After years of searching, I'm beginning to see why that is necessary. As I said, the universe is big, with layers and realms that we cannot even see yet. Here, we are all so sort of forced into a "common space." But when we aren't "here" out ability to connect and relate is strongly linked to our ability to believe.
I may have mentioned this before, but for years (after my faith crisis) I kept getting messages to "BELIEVE" - mostly the Journey song, "Don't stop believing" came on the radio many places I went - in my car, stores, etc) - and other little signs. Then, I wondered, "Believe in WHAT?" And there isn't really any one answer - but I want to believe in the highest GOoD possible. And I want to appreciate - I think gratitude is foundational to connecting spiritually.

I'm so glad you're on this forum, SaidNobody. I like discussing things like this.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Monopoly and King and Serfs

Post by SaidNobody » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:46 pm

Newme wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:06 pm

Yeah! I've thought of that... I think someone predicted something like a car - but they didn't even have the words for it.
In some ways, it scares me where we're going in the future - because it does seem like morality is taking a back seat to technology which generally results in more suffering. But in other ways, I'm exited for the future - if more people will kind of wake up and realize what they really want on a deep level - and how it's considering others too.
The idea of prophecy supports a idea that I am working on.

Quantum physics suggests that the universe is kind of static, that everything that will happen, has happened. That choices are really parallel universes, and that all we can really do is choose how we will follow the path. That we sort of live shared parallel realities. They use the term "holoflux." It's sort of a multi-dimensional, mutli-reality, cross-reference perspective.

The right ability could move around in the structure, see future things, possible things. It also implies that no matter where you are, you choose how you look at it.

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Newme
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Re: Monopoly and King and Serfs

Post by Newme » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:02 am

SaidNobody wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:46 pm
Newme wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:06 pm

Yeah! I've thought of that... I think someone predicted something like a car - but they didn't even have the words for it.
In some ways, it scares me where we're going in the future - because it does seem like morality is taking a back seat to technology which generally results in more suffering. But in other ways, I'm exited for the future - if more people will kind of wake up and realize what they really want on a deep level - and how it's considering others too.
The idea of prophecy supports a idea that I am working on.

Quantum physics suggests that the universe is kind of static, that everything that will happen, has happened. That choices are really parallel universes, and that all we can really do is choose how we will follow the path. That we sort of live shared parallel realities. They use the term "holoflux." It's sort of a multi-dimensional, mutli-reality, cross-reference perspective.

The right ability could move around in the structure, see future things, possible things. It also implies that no matter where you are, you choose how you look at it.
Reminds me of Shakespeare's quote, "there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."
I have yet to read much about quantum physics but I do find it interesting - and mind-boggling.
So, from your understanding - Quantuam physics theorizes that the universe is static - NOT changing?
But of course we who theorize this have conscious energy that is always changing?

Do you think that choice of how to look at something - is more spiritual than mental/emotional?

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SaidNobody
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Re: Monopoly and King and Serfs

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:07 am

Newme wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:02 am

Reminds me of Shakespeare's quote, "there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."
I have yet to read much about quantum physics but I do find it interesting - and mind-boggling.
So, from your understanding - Quantuam physics theorizes that the universe is static - NOT changing?
But of course we who theorize this have conscious energy that is always changing?

Do you think that choice of how to look at something - is more spiritual than mental/emotional?
Theory is just theory. I look for connections between the spiritual and mental.

Scriptures say that God is unchanging, the same yesterday, today, and forever. . .. and it's like "yeah, whatever.: And then Quantum theory says, "hey, everything has already happened" and it's all "mind=blown."

But, what we don't consider is perspective. Like, does the laws of gravity change? No, but the earth moves within it. But the law of gravity makes the path of the earth predictable. In a mathematical sense, the course of earth is plotted, calculated, and executed. Even if something unexpected happened, it is only unexpected to us, but in the bigger picture, everything is already calculated out and on it's way.

One of the things that tripped Einstein up was this idea of "quantum randomness." But, when working with 11 dimensions, it is really random?

It's sort of like writing a computer program and executing it. In absolute sense, it does "something." Everything that happens is more or less predictable. So, in a weird sort of way, it's has already happened. In theory, any possible choices or alternation to the plan all play out in parallel universes.

Scriptures talks about the "heavens and higher heavens" being folded up and passing away. Mixing the ideas a little bit, humans souls could literally insert themselves into life-base like earth for a limited time with some sort of end-game or exit-strategy already planned out.

I watch with a mix of fascination and skepticism as academics and science communities try to present evidence that there might have been a human civilization as much as 8 million years ago. With the epidemic of fake news, fake science, fake churches, etc, we will probably never know.

Anyway. . . ., perhaps static isn't the right word for the universe. Perhaps in an absolute sense, yes. But since everything is relative, no, things are moving. Like, is a diagram static? Basically, it is. But the process of following the diagram is activity. But in a spiritual law sort of way, the process will follow the diagram.

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Newme
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Re: Monopoly and King and Serfs

Post by Newme » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:45 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:07 am
Theory is just theory. I look for connections between the spiritual and mental.
I do too.
Scriptures say that God is unchanging, the same yesterday, today, and forever. . .. and it's like "yeah, whatever.: And then Quantum theory says, "hey, everything has already happened" and it's all "mind=blown."

But, what we don't consider is perspective. Like, does the laws of gravity change? No, but the earth moves within it. But the law of gravity makes the path of the earth predictable. In a mathematical sense, the course of earth is plotted, calculated, and executed. Even if something unexpected happened, it is only unexpected to us, but in the bigger picture, everything is already calculated out and on it's way.

One of the things that tripped Einstein up was this idea of "quantum randomness." But, when working with 11 dimensions, it is really random?

It's sort of like writing a computer program and executing it. In absolute sense, it does "something." Everything that happens is more or less predictable. So, in a weird sort of way, it's has already happened. In theory, any possible choices or alternation to the plan all play out in parallel universes.

Scriptures talks about the "heavens and higher heavens" being folded up and passing away. Mixing the ideas a little bit, humans souls could literally insert themselves into life-base like earth for a limited time with some sort of end-game or exit-strategy already planned out.
Based on my experience with spirit/God - it's the opposite of static/unchanging - but very much alive and evolving.

It sounds like you believe in determinism. I believe in both free agency & determinism - but only to an extent each. I think we have free agency within a window of opportunity. And I believe that the belief in either free agency exclusively or determinism exclusively, can be kind-of a self-fulfilling prophecy to some degree.
I watch with a mix of fascination and skepticism as academics and science communities try to present evidence that there might have been a human civilization as much as 8 million years ago. With the epidemic of fake news, fake science, fake churches, etc, we will probably never know.
Sounds like you don't buy it. But do you believe in some type of evolution and that the human experience has been going on much longer than the about 6,000 years (which bible claims)?
Anyway. . . ., perhaps static isn't the right word for the universe. Perhaps in an absolute sense, yes. But since everything is relative, no, things are moving. Like, is a diagram static? Basically, it is. But the process of following the diagram is activity. But in a spiritual law sort of way, the process will follow the diagram.
So, are you saying that our lives are kind of like computer programs - and can be predictably executed... or are you suggesting that we are like blank slates in some ways and yet also with a long history of (as Jung called it) collective unconscious that dictates some of our lives?

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