The Easy Way

Discussions about holding onto your faith and beliefs, whether by staying LDS or by exploring and participating in other churches or faiths. The belief in any higher power (including God, Christ, Buddha, or Jedi) is true in this forum. Be kind to others.
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Give It Time
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The Easy Way

Post by Give It Time » Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:15 am

Before I start, I'm going to clarify that the wide way is not about sin. That is a western philosophy. The wide way is about the simplest, most direct path (to over-simplify) and is an eastern philosophy. It is really a very right-brained concept and can better be explained by reading the resource I will soon mention. I have been learning about Taoism. In this philosophy, Lao, Tze, the author of the Tao Te Ching talks about The Way. He talks about The Way being natural. He talks about it being wide. He talks about it being easy. I have started employing these principles and I can tell you that my difficult life is so much easier! I actually have some energy, because it isn't always spent in the struggle. This extra energy translates into a little bit of optimism.

Then, I go to church and I hear about the straight, narrow, difficult way. The difference is stunning. Naturally, I've been thinking about these two opposed points of view. I was writing a playful-turned-serious response to a post by Moksha, when I was struck by an eternal truth.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1711

The Lord created the world. He created the way the rivers flow. The rivers always choose the easiest path. This isn't laziness. The Lord has created these easier routes as a blessing to us. They are a gift to us to be utilized with gratitude. The Lord knows this life is difficult and draining. He has given us this easy way, this wide way, this safer way. This wide way has fewer obstacles. Any potential dangers are more easily seen and prepared for. The wide way is a blessing.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go make myself some soft boiled eggs and toast.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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Newme
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Re: The Easy Way

Post by Newme » Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:41 pm

I hadn't thought of it like that before, but I can see some truth - like when you are in a flow - artistically or whatever passion you have - and it's as if everything's working with you.

I've interpreted the narrow way kind of the NOM of the NOMs way... the less popular way.
The way that involves both beautiful and ugly facts that people from extremes tend to ignore. It's the way for outsiders who are shunned because they refuse to go along with herd mentalites.

But now that I consider your interpretation, I see that maybe rebellion against all group thought could in a way ironically be a form of group thought, and more significantly, decrease joy. Yes, truth is good to seek & assert, but so is joy and love.

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Give It Time
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Re: The Easy Way

Post by Give It Time » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:59 am

I like your thoughts and your avatar. It's been a long time since I've lived outside the MorCor, but I have a feeling that, one I'm outside, the NOM path will be the wide one.

Right now, I'm thinking of one of my favorite poems, "The Road Less Traveled". I'll have to see how I feel about it's, now. However, the poem is about doing what's right for you. That is an aspect of Taoism, too. Each person's Tao (way/path/destiny) is different from the next person's. In that regard, we are all traveling the road less traveled. However, even if that road is more heavily trafficked, if it's the wrong road for us, it'll be more difficult.

Your analogy to flow is perfect.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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Newme
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Re: The Easy Way

Post by Newme » Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:31 pm

Give It Time wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:59 am
I like your thoughts and your avatar. It's been a long time since I've lived outside the MorCor, but I have a feeling that, one I'm outside, the NOM path will be the wide one.

Right now, I'm thinking of one of my favorite poems, "The Road Less Traveled". I'll have to see how I feel about it's, now. However, the poem is about doing what's right for you. That is an aspect of Taoism, too. Each person's Tao (way/path/destiny) is different from the next person's. In that regard, we are all traveling the road less traveled. However, even if that road is more heavily trafficked, if it's the wrong road for us, it'll be more difficult.

Your analogy to flow is perfect.
Thanks for your insightful & kind words.
Of what I know about Taoism, I like it - especially the natural symbolism, tie to Chinese medicine/healing arts, and how it doesn't insist on one "true" way nor does it put down religions, but (somewhere I read) encourages finding truth wherever it's found. I also am slowly learning some basic Tai chi - to help establish inner peace and flow.

The road less travelled is an interesting poem. And I agree that each's path is unique.
Reminds me of this quote: "If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away." - Henry David Thoreau

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Give It Time
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Re: The Easy Way

Post by Give It Time » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:08 pm

I love the quote and the meme. I'm taking Tai Chi, too. I've read many places that both Tai Chi and Qi Gong are Tao. I've been finding they're right.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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moksha
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Re: The Easy Way

Post by moksha » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:00 am

"You will find the Way,
And the Way will follow you."
-- From The Tao of Pooh

http://www.yourskypeschool.com/book_yss ... n-hoff.pdf
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Give It Time
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Re: The Easy Way

Post by Give It Time » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:57 pm

moksha wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:00 am
"You will find the Way,
And the Way will follow you."
-- From The Tao of Pooh

http://www.yourskypeschool.com/book_yss ... n-hoff.pdf
Kind of like the ocean in Moana. I loved that book, BTW.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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Mad Jax
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Re: The Easy Way

Post by Mad Jax » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:11 pm

Give It Time wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:15 am
The Lord created the world. He created the way the rivers flow. The rivers always choose the easiest path. This isn't laziness. The Lord has created these easier routes as a blessing to us. They are a gift to us to be utilized with gratitude. The Lord knows this life is difficult and draining. He has given us this easy way, this wide way, this safer way. This wide way has fewer obstacles. Any potential dangers are more easily seen and prepared for. The wide way is a blessing.
I'll say this and consider it a different perspective on what is essentially the same observation; our universe is deterministic. It moves naturally toward energetic efficiency. Phenomena such as the golden mean and the Fibonacci sequence exist in nature because they are efficient. It seems as if the ancients in the east based their religious teachings off of these observations (although I'm not sure if sacred geometry was as influenced by advanced mathematics as I am led to believe). And if there is a spiritual reality, I find it hard to believe that it differs as dramatically from physical reality as this aspect of the gospel appears to do. The idea of fighting against our natural inborn observations of efficiency and innovative minds that take advantage of such a thing.

I find it almost impossible that someone born with the mind of a mathematician, and a person born with the mind of a poet, are going to naturally make the same set of observations and let their minds be taken to any kind of higher plane of existence (assuming such a thing exists). Can they follow the same sets of rules? I suppose they can, but they won't likely get the same symbolic understanding. I'll be honest; Mormonism worked for me. I liked the legalistic manner in which it operated. But it wasn't for everyone. It clearly psychologically damages some people, or at least the manner in which many church leaders practice it does. So I'm inclined to disregard the "straight and narrow path" as the single interpretation of one person as to how everyone else should proceed, based simply on what works for that person.

But take that for what it's worth; the observation of a secular naturalist who no longer believes and is going off of memory. But that's my take.
Free will is a golden thread flowing through the matrix of fixed events.

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Give It Time
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Re: The Easy Way

Post by Give It Time » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:02 am

Mad Jax wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:11 pm
Give It Time wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:15 am
The Lord created the world. He created the way the rivers flow. The rivers always choose the easiest path. This isn't laziness. The Lord has created these easier routes as a blessing to us. They are a gift to us to be utilized with gratitude. The Lord knows this life is difficult and draining. He has given us this easy way, this wide way, this safer way. This wide way has fewer obstacles. Any potential dangers are more easily seen and prepared for. The wide way is a blessing.
I'll say this and consider it a different perspective on what is essentially the same observation; our universe is deterministic. It moves naturally toward energetic efficiency. Phenomena such as the golden mean and the Fibonacci sequence exist in nature because they are efficient. It seems as if the ancients in the east based their religious teachings off of these observations (although I'm not sure if sacred geometry was as influenced by advanced mathematics as I am led to believe). And if there is a spiritual reality, I find it hard to believe that it differs as dramatically from physical reality as this aspect of the gospel appears to do. The idea of fighting against our natural inborn observations of efficiency and innovative minds that take advantage of such a thing.

I find it almost impossible that someone born with the mind of a mathematician, and a person born with the mind of a poet, are going to naturally make the same set of observations and let their minds be taken to any kind of higher plane of existence (assuming such a thing exists). Can they follow the same sets of rules? I suppose they can, but they won't likely get the same symbolic understanding. I'll be honest; Mormonism worked for me. I liked the legalistic manner in which it operated. But it wasn't for everyone. It clearly psychologically damages some people, or at least the manner in which many church leaders practice it does. So I'm inclined to disregard the "straight and narrow path" as the single interpretation of one person as to how everyone else should proceed, based simply on what works for that person.

But take that for what it's worth; the observation of a secular naturalist who no longer believes and is going off of memory. But that's my take.
Actually, I thought this post was excellent. All of the thoughts are food for thought. The scientist and the poet? I'm yin-ning and yanging that, you know I am. Two opposing dynamics. Each holding a little bit if it's opposite. Step back and let them spin.

Final note, I'm currently taking a Chinese philosophy class. The professor makes sure to bring in a western philosopher and point of view who were contemporary to the Chinese philosopher, so I really do appreciate your thoughts about mathematics.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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wtfluff
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Re: The Easy Way

Post by wtfluff » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:04 am

Give It Time wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:15 am
The rivers always choose the easiest path.
Threadjack: Rivers don't "choose" anything. GRAVITY chooses their path for them... ;)

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Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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Give It Time
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Re: The Easy Way

Post by Give It Time » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:17 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:04 am
Give It Time wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:15 am
The rivers always choose the easiest path.
Threadjack: Rivers don't "choose" anything. GRAVITY chooses their path for them... ;)

Image
💗
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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glass shelf
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Re: The Easy Way

Post by glass shelf » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:41 am

One of my grad school professors has a doctorate dealing with the concept of flow and how to get into optimal learning and changing environments. Listening to him talk about these things is the polar opposite of sitting in LDS church services. ;)

Here's a popular book on the subject that you might enjoy. https://www.amazon.com/Flow-Psychology- ... words=flow

I think life has its challenges, but the LDS church goes out of its way to make things more difficult. It's so much easier for me to accept life when I just assume that bad things happen to everyone because part of life are hard and deal with the new reality than it is when I used to try to understand why they happen or what I'd done to cause them. Who needs guilt on top of an already difficult situation?

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Give It Time
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Re: The Easy Way

Post by Give It Time » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:53 am

glass shelf wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:41 am
One of my grad school professors has a doctorate dealing with the concept of flow and how to get into optimal learning and changing environments. Listening to him talk about these things is the polar opposite of sitting in LDS church services. ;)

Here's a popular book on the subject that you might enjoy. https://www.amazon.com/Flow-Psychology- ... words=flow

I think life has its challenges, but the LDS church goes out of its way to make things more difficult. It's so much easier for me to accept life when I just assume that bad things happen to everyone because part of life are hard and deal with the new reality than it is when I used to try to understand why they happen or what I'd done to cause them. Who needs guilt on top of an already difficult situation?
This is really true. I have been trying, for a long time, to have a life that has less drama. I realized the church is a major source of that drama. Drink tea? Side eye. Go to church without my son? Lots of questions as to where he is and I get the bounty of hurt looks when I tell them he's at home. Don't want visiting teachers to come, because they're invasive and rude and visiting teaching really is a waste of time? Major drama!

Drama is just a fact of rubbing shoulders with other people, but the church really does raise the stakes with its control and keeping people in the fold and the eternal family. Even if you're compliantly all in, it's anything but peaceful. Sometimes, I listen to the doctrines about the Prince of Peace and I wonder if this was made up and proclaimed, because religions are so controlling, they actually destroy peace and we wouldn't need a Prince of Peace if people took actual ownership of their spirituality and everyone actually let everyone else discover and follow that. No strings attached.

Thanks for the link, I'll definitely check it out.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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