Purple hair and LGBT should leave

Discussions about holding onto your faith and beliefs, whether by staying LDS or by exploring and participating in other churches or faiths. The belief in any higher power (including God, Christ, Buddha, or Jedi) is true in this forum. Be kind to others.
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Thoughtful
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Purple hair and LGBT should leave

Post by Thoughtful » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:49 pm

https://donotlink.it/m3l2

This makes it hard to stay at church. Purple hair? Really? And anyone who doesn't get in line should just leave. When the Savior sifts the wheat from the tares, do people like this think he will pat them on the back for being so steadfast? Telling people to leave the church, instead of reading out to love and let God be the judge.

It seems like hate groups like Mormon Women Stand and whoever this woman is thrive on believing they are so much better than others. Gross.

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Corsair
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Re: Purple hair and LGBT should leave

Post by Corsair » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:42 am

The title of the article is:
  • The LDS Church Should Be Able to Uphold Its Standards Without Being Vilified
I offer apologies for violating Godwin's Law so quickly, but consider if some different articles were written:
  • The German Nazi Party of 1936 Should Be Able to Uphold Its Standards Without Being Vilified
  • The Seceding Southern States in 1860 Should Be Able to Uphold Their Standards Without Being Vilified
  • The 1917 Bolsheviks Should Be Able to Uphold Their Standards Without Being Vilified
  • Maximilien Robespierre Should Be Able to Uphold His Standards Without Being Vilified
In all of these cases the asserion is pushing itself beyond the bounds of constitutionally protected rights. I fully support the right of any private group to allow or forbid membership for any reason at all and I do include the LDS church and BYU Idaho. They are free to establish any criteria for membership or private employment that they want. This includes any group that has foolish or harmful ideas until they start causing actual harm. I have to concede that BYU Idaho can establish any religious criteria for employment standards for itself.

However, expecting others to not vilify them is foolish and unrealistic. In addition, federal funding, accreditation, and other issues might be a problem for them. This is above and beyond simply looking foolish in the court of public opinion. Imagine if "The Daily Show" decided to do a scathing humorous segment on this story. The LDS church can establish their criteria for membership, but it cannot mandate the opinion that outsiders have of that criteria.

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moksha
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Re: Purple hair and LGBT should leave

Post by moksha » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:30 am

I am somewhat surprised that purple hair would even be allowed in the town of Rexburg.

I wish the Church had not made this item of intolerance a litmus test.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Red Ryder
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Re: Purple hair and LGBT should leave

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:01 am

Give us a break! We can be homophobic if we want to. We can be racist too until God renounces all past racism and we change our doctrine. Then we won't be racist.
I respect Mormons who, unable to reconcile the doctrine with their personal belief system, leave the Church. That, in my opinion, is the honorable thing to do. But to stay and try to make the Church conform to what you think it should be? How dare you? Really. How dare you? It’s not exactly easy for the rest of us to live in a world that defines us as evil because we follow what we believe are God’s teachings about same sex marriage. Clearly it’s an excruciating dilemma, and that’s why so many Mormons have left and do leave the Church. So give those of us who stick around a break. If you want us to respect your agency to live your lives the way you choose, please respect our agency not to have our Sacrament meeting politicized.
Elder Nelson seems to have somehow become the mouthpiece of the mouthpiece of God. ~ Hagoth

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oliver_denom
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Re: Purple hair and LGBT should leave

Post by oliver_denom » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:35 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:01 am
I respect Mormons who, unable to reconcile the doctrine with their personal belief system, leave the Church. That, in my opinion, is the honorable thing to do. But to stay and try to make the Church conform to what you think it should be? How dare you? Really. How dare you? It’s not exactly easy for the rest of us to live in a world that defines us as evil because we follow what we believe are God’s teachings about same sex marriage. Clearly it’s an excruciating dilemma, and that’s why so many Mormons have left and do leave the Church. So give those of us who stick around a break. If you want us to respect your agency to live your lives the way you choose, please respect our agency not to have our Sacrament meeting politicized.
It's funny how the blogger just casually throws out the idea of people leaving the church. It's JUST SO EASY! If it were that easy, if the members of the church didn't make life a living hell for those who leave, then maybe this criticism would have legitimacy. And what if you DO believe in 95% of what the church teaches? How about 85%? Should those people also leave? It's this cavalier all or nothing attitude that will eventually find today's devout on the edges of the church tomorrow. Its a slippery slope. The church can always become more strict, more conservative, more severe, and more intolerant. Without members like Ruthie pushing back, they would, and moderate members would find themselves in the same position as us liberals.

Glass houses and all.

The church should be able to run its business as it sees fit, that's what free society means. However, it doesn't get to run its business free of criticism, because that's what totalitarianism means. What people like this blogger are really advocating for is freedom of religion for the corporation, not for the individual. They are advocating for the restriction of speech that offends them. Sorry, but that doesn't fly in a democracy. Maybe in the next life you can live in a theocratic utopia, but for now we're all stuck together and need to get right with the first amendment.

And the stuff that's been in the news like Savanna and this BYUI firing are going to be weird to outsiders, because IT IS fucking weird. Other churches have a long tradition and understanding of dissent. The type of obedience demanded by LDS authorities has been rejected by a majority of Christian religion.
“You want to know something? We are still in the Dark Ages. The Dark Ages--they haven't ended yet.” - Vonnegut

L'enfer, c'est les autres - JP

Thoughtful
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Re: Purple hair and LGBT should leave

Post by Thoughtful » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:13 pm

oliver_denom wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:35 am
Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:01 am
I respect Mormons who, unable to reconcile the doctrine with their personal belief system, leave the Church. That, in my opinion, is the honorable thing to do. But to stay and try to make the Church conform to what you think it should be? How dare you? Really. How dare you? It’s not exactly easy for the rest of us to live in a world that defines us as evil because we follow what we believe are God’s teachings about same sex marriage. Clearly it’s an excruciating dilemma, and that’s why so many Mormons have left and do leave the Church. So give those of us who stick around a break. If you want us to respect your agency to live your lives the way you choose, please respect our agency not to have our Sacrament meeting politicized.
It's funny how the blogger just casually throws out the idea of people leaving the church. It's JUST SO EASY! If it were that easy, if the members of the church didn't make life a living hell for those who leave, then maybe this criticism would have legitimacy. And what if you DO believe in 95% of what the church teaches? How about 85%? Should those people also leave? It's this cavalier all or nothing attitude that will eventually find today's devout on the edges of the church tomorrow. Its a slippery slope. The church can always become more strict, more conservative, more severe, and more intolerant. Without members like Ruthie pushing back, they would, and moderate members would find themselves in the same position as us liberals.

Glass houses and all.

The church should be able to run its business as it sees fit, that's what free society means. However, it doesn't get to run its business free of criticism, because that's what totalitarianism means. What people like this blogger are really advocating for is freedom of religion for the corporation, not for the individual. They are advocating for the restriction of speech that offends them. Sorry, but that doesn't fly in a democracy. Maybe in the next life you can live in a theocratic utopia, but for now we're all stuck together and need to get right with the first amendment.

And the stuff that's been in the news like Savanna and this BYUI firing are going to be weird to outsiders, because IT IS fucking weird. Other churches have a long tradition and understanding of dissent. The type of obedience demanded by LDS authorities has been rejected by a majority of Christian religion.

Yes, this!!

I wish people like you could comment on the FB post where she shared this.

I was disgusted seeing members of my stake liking it.
Last edited by Thoughtful on Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thoughtful
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:54 pm

Re: Purple hair and LGBT should leave

Post by Thoughtful » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:14 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:01 am
Give us a break! We can be homophobic if we want to. We can be racist too until God renounces all past racism and we change our doctrine. Then we won't be racist.
I respect Mormons who, unable to reconcile the doctrine with their personal belief system, leave the Church. That, in my opinion, is the honorable thing to do. But to stay and try to make the Church conform to what you think it should be? How dare you? Really. How dare you? It’s not exactly easy for the rest of us to live in a world that defines us as evil because we follow what we believe are God’s teachings about same sex marriage. Clearly it’s an excruciating dilemma, and that’s why so many Mormons have left and do leave the Church. So give those of us who stick around a break. If you want us to respect your agency to live your lives the way you choose, please respect our agency not to have our Sacrament meeting politicized.
Yup.

Thoughtful
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:54 pm

Re: Purple hair and LGBT should leave

Post by Thoughtful » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:16 pm

Corsair wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:42 am
The title of the article is:
  • The LDS Church Should Be Able to Uphold Its Standards Without Being Vilified
I offer apologies for violating Godwin's Law so quickly, but consider if some different articles were written:
  • The German Nazi Party of 1936 Should Be Able to Uphold Its Standards Without Being Vilified
  • The Seceding Southern States in 1860 Should Be Able to Uphold Their Standards Without Being Vilified
  • The 1917 Bolsheviks Should Be Able to Uphold Their Standards Without Being Vilified
  • Maximilien Robespierre Should Be Able to Uphold His Standards Without Being Vilified
In all of these cases the asserion is pushing itself beyond the bounds of constitutionally protected rights. I fully support the right of any private group to allow or forbid membership for any reason at all and I do include the LDS church and BYU Idaho. They are free to establish any criteria for membership or private employment that they want. This includes any group that has foolish or harmful ideas until they start causing actual harm. I have to concede that BYU Idaho can establish any religious criteria for employment standards for itself.

However, expecting others to not vilify them is foolish and unrealistic. In addition, federal funding, accreditation, and other issues might be a problem for them. This is above and beyond simply looking foolish in the court of public opinion. Imagine if "The Daily Show" decided to do a scathing humorous segment on this story. The LDS church can establish their criteria for membership, but it cannot mandate the opinion that outsiders have of that criteria.
It can't even mandate the opinion of insiders.

However, I'm also grossed out that the COB never responds by asking their hate filled minions to stop alienating and othering their brothers and sisters in Christ.

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MerrieMiss
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Re: Purple hair and LGBT should leave

Post by MerrieMiss » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:16 pm

I respect Mormons who, unable to reconcile the doctrine with their personal belief system, leave the Church. That, in my opinion, is the honorable thing to do. But to stay and try to make the Church conform to what you think it should be? How dare you? Really. How dare you? It’s not exactly easy for the rest of us to live in a world that defines us as evil because we follow what we believe are God’s teachings about same sex marriage. Clearly it’s an excruciating dilemma, and that’s why so many Mormons have left and do leave the Church. So give those of us who stick around a break. If you want us to respect your agency to live your lives the way you choose, please respect our agency not to have our Sacrament meeting politicized.

This was me about ten years ago. While I no longer agree with it, I completely understand what she is saying.

That said, even within the church and those people who are "following God's teachings" there's a lot of variance of action and belief. No doubt once she gets rid of the Mormons who want LGBT equality, she'll move on to the women who wear pants. Pretty soon we'll be back in prairie garb. And who needs purple hair when you've got a coiffure like that?

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The true opposite of order is not disorder but freedom. Most profoundly, the true opposite of control is not chaos but self-control. -Jay Griffiths

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Give It Time
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Re: Purple hair and LGBT should leave

Post by Give It Time » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:42 pm

Sorry, lady. You're stuck with us.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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Evil_Bert
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Re: Purple hair and LGBT should leave

Post by Evil_Bert » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:44 am

This blog post is another reason I am glad my purple haired, LGBT daughter sent in her resignation. I don't want her to ever hear this kind of crap spewed from the cold heart of some frigid old hag who thinks that Jebus talks directly to her.

Haters gonna hate, but that is not a reason to make a donation in her name to PFLAG. I just wish I had her mailing address so they could send her a thank you.
Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Mad Jax
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Re: Purple hair and LGBT should leave

Post by Mad Jax » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:24 pm

BYU is like a whole new level anyway. The fact that your hair can be too short is absurd. How on earth can that be considered poor grooming? To be fair I suppose not every administrator is guilty of insisting members grow hair if possible, but it has happened.

I'm not surprised they object to purple hair, but considering how much of a non-issue it is compared to the non-conforming teachings I'm surprised the article writer mentioned it. It just adds ammo to critics.
Free will is a golden thread flowing through the matrix of fixed events.

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