Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Discussions about holding onto your faith and beliefs, whether by staying LDS or by exploring and participating in other churches or faiths. The belief in any higher power (including God, Christ, Buddha, or Jedi) is true in this forum. Be kind to others.
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Give It Time
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by Give It Time » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:01 pm

Thoughtful wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:04 pm
Mad Jax wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:50 am
Give It Time wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:15 am
This makes a lot of sense. This is why I think it is dangerous for the church or any religion to think they can change a person. There is only so much change that will occur.
I have said almost nothing about this since returning and maybe it's time. So here's a thought on that.

I've very recently concluded a six month therapy course in order to treat a pretty severe mental illness (schizophreniform disorder). I hope my silence on that subject isn't seen as dishonesty. Having undergone it in no way makes me an expert on psychiatry, psychology, or neuroscience nor am I claiming it does. Nevertheless I've experienced how antipsychotic medication (loxapine) combined with real therapeutic self examination and cognitive recognition techniques can effectively build healthy neurological pathways and diminish the unhealthy ones.

Without delving too much into the details of the process (which is fascinating, but would divert too much) the trouble is that it takes such brutal honesty and unpleasant realization of where you are psychologically and in my case, a painfully obvious lack of maturity and ownership of past mistakes. Of recognizing sources of distress and trauma in the past and, rather than bury them, letting your mind pass through them and over them and learning to immunize yourself against the mind viruses of that which wounds us. All of these are much more difficult than the escapism of indulgent griping, or tantric sexual encounters, or chemically inducing a stupor, or cathartic violence.

So change is very hard, or at least is for me, but I believe it is possible if one possesses:

1. The desire to do so above one's desire to maintain their ego.
2. The correct path and principles that will guide the change.

I think number two is more malleable, as what may work for one may not work for another. I think you are correct that few religions offer this in the right way. Certainly the differences between the church (You have committed sins, and they have removed you from God, but may find atonement at the hands of a mediator) are not the same as that of therapy (There is no such thing as sin, but mistakes do have consequences, and there is no atonement but what you make). I can say that the former doesn't work for me and that's all I can say about it. It may work for others.

Few people will change and I agree that few will change because of the church. But I hold to the belief that redemption is possible for almost anybody if they really desire it, even the most unlikely of people.
Change is a process, not an event. And, no one changes unless conditions are right for it to occur. Perhaps for some (many) it's psychotropics, or cognitive restructuring. For a few it might be church.

I hate the quote by Packer that studying the gospel changes people faster than psychology does. Nothing changes anyone without the environment (including sometimes genes, neurotransmitters, hormones) being able to change.
True.

All of this.

My sister is a recovering alcoholic and has been for thirty years.

Yes, it took her hitting rock bottom.

Yes, it's a daily struggle for her.

I admire her, immensely.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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Mad Jax
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by Mad Jax » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:11 pm

Give It Time wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:01 pm
Thoughtful wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:04 pm
Mad Jax wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:50 am

I have said almost nothing about this since returning and maybe it's time. So here's a thought on that.

I've very recently concluded a six month therapy course in order to treat a pretty severe mental illness (schizophreniform disorder). I hope my silence on that subject isn't seen as dishonesty. Having undergone it in no way makes me an expert on psychiatry, psychology, or neuroscience nor am I claiming it does. Nevertheless I've experienced how antipsychotic medication (loxapine) combined with real therapeutic self examination and cognitive recognition techniques can effectively build healthy neurological pathways and diminish the unhealthy ones.

Without delving too much into the details of the process (which is fascinating, but would divert too much) the trouble is that it takes such brutal honesty and unpleasant realization of where you are psychologically and in my case, a painfully obvious lack of maturity and ownership of past mistakes. Of recognizing sources of distress and trauma in the past and, rather than bury them, letting your mind pass through them and over them and learning to immunize yourself against the mind viruses of that which wounds us. All of these are much more difficult than the escapism of indulgent griping, or tantric sexual encounters, or chemically inducing a stupor, or cathartic violence.

So change is very hard, or at least is for me, but I believe it is possible if one possesses:

1. The desire to do so above one's desire to maintain their ego.
2. The correct path and principles that will guide the change.

I think number two is more malleable, as what may work for one may not work for another. I think you are correct that few religions offer this in the right way. Certainly the differences between the church (You have committed sins, and they have removed you from God, but may find atonement at the hands of a mediator) are not the same as that of therapy (There is no such thing as sin, but mistakes do have consequences, and there is no atonement but what you make). I can say that the former doesn't work for me and that's all I can say about it. It may work for others.

Few people will change and I agree that few will change because of the church. But I hold to the belief that redemption is possible for almost anybody if they really desire it, even the most unlikely of people.
Change is a process, not an event. And, no one changes unless conditions are right for it to occur. Perhaps for some (many) it's psychotropics, or cognitive restructuring. For a few it might be church.

I hate the quote by Packer that studying the gospel changes people faster than psychology does. Nothing changes anyone without the environment (including sometimes genes, neurotransmitters, hormones) being able to change.
True.

All of this.

My sister is a recovering alcoholic and has been for thirty years.

Yes, it took her hitting rock bottom.

Yes, it's a daily struggle for her.

I admire her, immensely.
Same with my sister. Severe alcoholism requiring medical observation in order to survive the withdrawal process.

She was the most supportive of all my family members. Our family has a history of mental illness so there was little problem of understanding, which helps immensely.
Free will is a golden thread flowing through the matrix of fixed events.

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alas
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by alas » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:04 pm

Getting back to the original question, I do not believe in Karma being something that carries over from one incarnation to another. Otherwise, do I have to accept that I abused a child in my last reincarnation?

No, I believe in learning experiences. Each reincarnation gives us different learning experiences. So, if I am reincarnated as a psychopath, I get to learn what the mental deficiencies of that cause me to do or feel or experience. But I am not punished for what the mental condition causes, just get an experience of how different brain Input ends up in different behavior.

Karma is really the consequences of behavior, not reward or punishment. So, if I act hatefully, people are gonna hate me. Karma. But I think each incarnation is its own experience. How fair is it to be punished for something you did as a different person in a different life?

As to if psychopaths/sociopaths are made or born that way? There is evidence of both. Evidence of being born that way is they often have a very high pain threshold, they just don't feel pain like others do. So, they don't understand others being in pain. Evidence of it being learned is that they often have trauma as children.

I think there is little purpose in debating unless we know the individuals DNA and a DNA connection to psychopathology, know the individuals full life experiences as well as those experiences that cause such brain malfunctions as reduced empathy for others, yada yada yada. We don't know enough to have the debate at this point.

As to wether or not they can change, the big problem is they don't see a need to change. They are not hurting themselves, but hurting others and don't much care.

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Give It Time
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by Give It Time » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:17 pm

alas wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:04 pm
Getting back to the original question, I do not believe in Karma being something that carries over from one incarnation to another. Otherwise, do I have to accept that I abused a child in my last reincarnation?

No, I believe in learning experiences. Each reincarnation gives us different learning experiences. So, if I am reincarnated as a psychopath, I get to learn what the mental deficiencies of that cause me to do or feel or experience. But I am not punished for what the mental condition causes, just get an experience of how different brain Input ends up in different behavior.

Karma is really the consequences of behavior, not reward or punishment. So, if I act hatefully, people are gonna hate me. Karma. But I think each incarnation is its own experience. How fair is it to be punished for something you did as a different person in a different life?

As to if psychopaths/sociopaths are made or born that way? There is evidence of both. Evidence of being born that way is they often have a very high pain threshold, they just don't feel pain like others do. So, they don't understand others being in pain. Evidence of it being learned is that they often have trauma as children.

I think there is little purpose in debating unless we know the individuals DNA and a DNA connection to psychopathology, know the individuals full life experiences as well as those experiences that cause such brain malfunctions as reduced empathy for others, yada yada yada. We don't know enough to have the debate at this point.

As to wether or not they can change, the big problem is they don't see a need to change. They are not hurting themselves, but hurting others and don't much care.
I think this is an interesting point of view about living meant lives. I'm going to think about it, for a little while. My initial response says I can see the reasoning behind it, but I want to consider it in light of what I see around me.

I've also been thinking of the born-vs-made beliefs. If you're a parent, one thing you know for certain is that your children have very different personalities and outlooks. Spencer W. Kimball who had several children and raised them all in the church, but his oldest simply never believed. It's my understanding it was nothing about his father or the church or anything. He just never believed. That's all. Even though all of his siblings believed, he never did.

I do believe he was "born that way". He just viewed things differently. I don't know where his siblings are or aren't on that belief continuum, but I do believe that, just as some people are wired to be religiously minded and some aren't. I believe it's possible for some people to have more natural compassion than others.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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alas
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by alas » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:00 pm

Give It Time wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:17 pm
alas wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:04 pm
Getting back to the original question, I do not believe in Karma being something that carries over from one incarnation to another. Otherwise, do I have to accept that I abused a child in my last reincarnation?

No, I believe in learning experiences. Each reincarnation gives us different learning experiences. So, if I am reincarnated as a psychopath, I get to learn what the mental deficiencies of that cause me to do or feel or experience. But I am not punished for what the mental condition causes, just get an experience of how different brain Input ends up in different behavior.

Karma is really the consequences of behavior, not reward or punishment. So, if I act hatefully, people are gonna hate me. Karma. But I think each incarnation is its own experience. How fair is it to be punished for something you did as a different person in a different life?

As to if psychopaths/sociopaths are made or born that way? There is evidence of both. Evidence of being born that way is they often have a very high pain threshold, they just don't feel pain like others do. So, they don't understand others being in pain. Evidence of it being learned is that they often have trauma as children.

I think there is little purpose in debating unless we know the individuals DNA and a DNA connection to psychopathology, know the individuals full life experiences as well as those experiences that cause such brain malfunctions as reduced empathy for others, yada yada yada. We don't know enough to have the debate at this point.

As to wether or not they can change, the big problem is they don't see a need to change. They are not hurting themselves, but hurting others and don't much care.
I think this is an interesting point of view about living meant lives. I'm going to think about it, for a little while. My initial response says I can see the reasoning behind it, but I want to consider it in light of what I see around me.

I've also been thinking of the born-vs-made beliefs. If you're a parent, one thing you know for certain is that your children have very different personalities and outlooks. Spencer W. Kimball who had several children and raised them all in the church, but his oldest simply never believed. It's my understanding it was nothing about his father or the church or anything. He just never believed. That's all. Even though all of his siblings believed, he never did.

I do believe he was "born that way". He just viewed things differently. I don't know where his siblings are or aren't on that belief continuum, but I do believe that, just as some people are wired to be religiously minded and some aren't. I believe it's possible for some people to have more natural compassion than others.
It was because of what I see around me...that and a thought in a book by Richard Bach (sp? Author of Jonathan Livingston Seagul) that led me to the conclusion that if there is anything that lives on after this life, that really the only thing that makes sense is that reincarnation would be a series of learning experiences. It is so unfair to compare what the child soldier in Africa was born into compared to what he does with his life, to say one of our general authorities and what he was born into compared to what he does with his life. How could this life be a one shot test? But if there really is "eternal progression," then how better to learn all that we need to know to become Gods, or simply to ward off the boredom of eternal life than many different lives where we can compare the experience and what one learns by being the 6 year old soldier in Africa, to what one might learn by being born into cushy comfort of the life of a GA.

And as to "born that way" compared to learned behavior, there is a mutation in the genes of dogs that is missing in their wolf cousins that makes them ...well, dogs. It changes the instinctive fear of humans that wolves have and makes them the loving dolts that will remain loyal to their human friend even if that human friend hurts them. A wolf will not stay loyal to a human who hurts it, or treats it badly, but will turn on them. This gene mutation also shows up in a few humans as an abnormality that makes them "love everybody". There is a name for the condition, that I forget, but in humans, this gene mutation causes them to be too trusting, too gullible, too friendly.

Then there is autism, sort of the very opposite, also caused by genes. (some forms, other forms might be caused by pre birth environmental conditions) I have a daughter and grandchild who are both on the autism spectrum and a second grandchild that I am pretty sure is on the spectrum, but since her mother sees no need to get her tested, I am not going to be the bad guy and suggest it. I also have one child that I swear has the "dog gene mutation." Too trusting, over and over and over. And she was the baby with zero stranger anxiety, who just loved and trusted everyone. Her autism spectrum sister, however had The. Worst. Case. Of. Stranger anxiety. Ever. So, the super friendly one is the total opposite of her autism spectrum sister, to the point that they work in the same building, and look so much alike, that they get mistaken for each other, yet people who know them are SHOCKED to find out they are sisters.

I think as scientists study more, they are going to continue to find more things that are genetic, or are a combination of genetic and environmental. There are things like schizophrenia that have a genetic component, but seem to require an environmental trigger. Diabetes may be that way. There are known triggers for diabetes, such as the herbicide agent orange. It is not a just matter of obesity causes diabetes, but is a *cause* of obesity. The personality disorders, like borderline personality disorder, seem to have a genetic component but require childhood trauma to develop. There are lots of things that run in families, yet identical twins may not both develop. Being gay is one of those things. What might be an environmental trigger for that which scientists have yet to find?

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Mad Jax
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by Mad Jax » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:07 pm

alas wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:00 pm
What might be an environmental trigger for that which scientists have yet to find?
My money is on that being a very deep rabbit hole.
Free will is a golden thread flowing through the matrix of fixed events.

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moksha
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by moksha » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:26 pm

Nurture and nature will exist regardless of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Whatever exists beyond our scope of understanding, whether of the physical or metaphysical realms, what we know of genetics and upbringing would suggest that behavior is of there here and now.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by Thoughtful » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:24 pm

alas wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:04 pm
Getting back to the original question, I do not believe in Karma being something that carries over from one incarnation to another. Otherwise, do I have to accept that I abused a child in my last reincarnation?

No, I believe in learning experiences. Each reincarnation gives us different learning experiences. So, if I am reincarnated as a psychopath, I get to learn what the mental deficiencies of that cause me to do or feel or experience. But I am not punished for what the mental condition causes, just get an experience of how different brain Input ends up in different behavior.

Karma is really the consequences of behavior, not reward or punishment. So, if I act hatefully, people are gonna hate me. Karma. But I think each incarnation is its own experience. How fair is it to be punished for something you did as a different person in a different life?

As to if psychopaths/sociopaths are made or born that way? There is evidence of both. Evidence of being born that way is they often have a very high pain threshold, they just don't feel pain like others do. So, they don't understand others being in pain. Evidence of it being learned is that they often have trauma as children.

I think there is little purpose in debating unless we know the individuals DNA and a DNA connection to psychopathology, know the individuals full life experiences as well as those experiences that cause such brain malfunctions as reduced empathy for others, yada yada yada. We don't know enough to have the debate at this point.

As to wether or not they can change, the big problem is they don't see a need to change. They are not hurting themselves, but hurting others and don't much care.
If I'm not mistaken, "karma" is the principle that we are supposedly reincarnated according to our behavior in past incarnations.

"Dharma" is the term for just consequences in this incarnation-- what energy you send out confess back to you, etc.

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Give It Time
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by Give It Time » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:28 pm

It's my understanding it depends on the religion. I'll go with Buddhist.

Karma is what comes around goes around. I believe it is possible to burn off karma in this life for deeds done in this life. I have a story to that effect, but don't want to make my post too long. It's my understanding we also burn off karma from past lives.

Dharma means order. It means the law by which things operate. The earth my rotate around the sun, but that has nothing to do with karma.

I could be wrong about either or both of these. I'm veering a little away from Buddhism, right now, because I'm mad at Buddha.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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Give It Time
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by Give It Time » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:31 pm

alas wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:00 pm
Give It Time wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:17 pm
alas wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:04 pm
Getting back to the original question, I do not believe in Karma being something that carries over from one incarnation to another. Otherwise, do I have to accept that I abused a child in my last reincarnation?

No, I believe in learning experiences. Each reincarnation gives us different learning experiences. So, if I am reincarnated as a psychopath, I get to learn what the mental deficiencies of that cause me to do or feel or experience. But I am not punished for what the mental condition causes, just get an experience of how different brain Input ends up in different behavior.

Karma is really the consequences of behavior, not reward or punishment. So, if I act hatefully, people are gonna hate me. Karma. But I think each incarnation is its own experience. How fair is it to be punished for something you did as a different person in a different life?

As to if psychopaths/sociopaths are made or born that way? There is evidence of both. Evidence of being born that way is they often have a very high pain threshold, they just don't feel pain like others do. So, they don't understand others being in pain. Evidence of it being learned is that they often have trauma as children.

I think there is little purpose in debating unless we know the individuals DNA and a DNA connection to psychopathology, know the individuals full life experiences as well as those experiences that cause such brain malfunctions as reduced empathy for others, yada yada yada. We don't know enough to have the debate at this point.

As to wether or not they can change, the big problem is they don't see a need to change. They are not hurting themselves, but hurting others and don't much care.
I think this is an interesting point of view about living meant lives. I'm going to think about it, for a little while. My initial response says I can see the reasoning behind it, but I want to consider it in light of what I see around me.

I've also been thinking of the born-vs-made beliefs. If you're a parent, one thing you know for certain is that your children have very different personalities and outlooks. Spencer W. Kimball who had several children and raised them all in the church, but his oldest simply never believed. It's my understanding it was nothing about his father or the church or anything. He just never believed. That's all. Even though all of his siblings believed, he never did.

I do believe he was "born that way". He just viewed things differently. I don't know where his siblings are or aren't on that belief continuum, but I do believe that, just as some people are wired to be religiously minded and some aren't. I believe it's possible for some people to have more natural compassion than others.
It was because of what I see around me...that and a thought in a book by Richard Bach (sp? Author of Jonathan Livingston Seagul) that led me to the conclusion that if there is anything that lives on after this life, that really the only thing that makes sense is that reincarnation would be a series of learning experiences. It is so unfair to compare what the child soldier in Africa was born into compared to what he does with his life, to say one of our general authorities and what he was born into compared to what he does with his life. How could this life be a one shot test? But if there really is "eternal progression," then how better to learn all that we need to know to become Gods, or simply to ward off the boredom of eternal life than many different lives where we can compare the experience and what one learns by being the 6 year old soldier in Africa, to what one might learn by being born into cushy comfort of the life of a GA.

And as to "born that way" compared to learned behavior, there is a mutation in the genes of dogs that is missing in their wolf cousins that makes them ...well, dogs. It changes the instinctive fear of humans that wolves have and makes them the loving dolts that will remain loyal to their human friend even if that human friend hurts them. A wolf will not stay loyal to a human who hurts it, or treats it badly, but will turn on them. This gene mutation also shows up in a few humans as an abnormality that makes them "love everybody". There is a name for the condition, that I forget, but in humans, this gene mutation causes them to be too trusting, too gullible, too friendly.

Then there is autism, sort of the very opposite, also caused by genes. (some forms, other forms might be caused by pre birth environmental conditions) I have a daughter and grandchild who are both on the autism spectrum and a second grandchild that I am pretty sure is on the spectrum, but since her mother sees no need to get her tested, I am not going to be the bad guy and suggest it. I also have one child that I swear has the "dog gene mutation." Too trusting, over and over and over. And she was the baby with zero stranger anxiety, who just loved and trusted everyone. Her autism spectrum sister, however had The. Worst. Case. Of. Stranger anxiety. Ever. So, the super friendly one is the total opposite of her autism spectrum sister, to the point that they work in the same building, and look so much alike, that they get mistaken for each other, yet people who know them are SHOCKED to find out they are sisters.

I think as scientists study more, they are going to continue to find more things that are genetic, or are a combination of genetic and environmental. There are things like schizophrenia that have a genetic component, but seem to require an environmental trigger. Diabetes may be that way. There are known triggers for diabetes, such as the herbicide agent orange. It is not a just matter of obesity causes diabetes, but is a *cause* of obesity. The personality disorders, like borderline personality disorder, seem to have a genetic component but require childhood trauma to develop. There are lots of things that run in families, yet identical twins may not both develop. Being gay is one of those things. What might be an environmental trigger for that which scientists have yet to find?
I think what I have a problem with is the variety of experiences point of view is it implies there is a higher intelligence that is allowing all this harm to continue unchecked. Then, I consider it in the Taoist perspective that there needs to be a balance of higher and more instinctual behaviors (Taoists don't believe in looking at things as good or evil--part if the reason I skew more toward philosophical Taoism and not religious, I believe some things need to be called evil). At any rate, they believe there needs to be a balance. Every now and then, I consider that thought. Do we really need to have evil in this world? What would be so inappropriate about having the world evolve and become more compassionate over the millennia?

But then, maybe there's some great need for every soul in the human race to experience a certain range of experiences. Kind of like a cosmic level ward calling.i will close with a few thoughts I like about reincarnation:.it kind of eliminates the need for celestial polygamy, because there are a lot fewer souls than originally estimated. I know that somewhere in this belief there's the belief in soulmates that are linked across lifetimes. While I'm not in love with the soulmate idea, I did hear it expressed that it is possible for two soulmates to be the same gender in a shared lifetime and that is a reason to support gay marriage.

Final thought after proofreading. I wonder if Joseph Smith was reincarnated as a polygamous wife or cuckolded husband.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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alas
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by alas » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:56 pm

double post. Hit quote instead of edit to collect a typo.
Last edited by alas on Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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alas
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by alas » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:02 pm

What if, say, in my last incarnation, I was the mother of someone who was sexually abused by my husband and I didn't understand why she hated me. I felt that it was her father she should hate, and half wanted to get even for the injustice of being innocent but hated, and half curious to understand where my daughter was coming from. Maybe I did have some responsibility, but I just could not see how. So, I die and during the between life planning session, either with a higher power, or just with my fellow spirits, I am struggling with why my daughter hated me. So, fellow spirit A asks if I might want to answer that question in my next life. I consider the pros and cons. I say, I might consider it. And spirit B says, "Well, there is a child about to be born to this family in Utah, and judging by the father's personality, I would say there is a 60% probability of sexual abuse." And I say, I want to think on it. Tough assignment. And spirit A pipes up, "Well, there is always Africa. Lots of starvation and genocide. That would be interesting." And B says, "And we have an assignment at "the" Kennedys. Cushy life." And I say, "hmmm, no, I have done rich and famous a couple of times. It is actually pretty boring." A again suggests, "We got, black in Alabama, we got very poor on Porto Rico, we got Mormon Royality. I know you did a Mormon life back in 1850 and died pretty young. Interested in seeing where that religion has gone? Or we have atheists in Germany who are plagued with WWII guilt." And I come back,, "that family in Utah that there might be sexual abuse, they Mormon?" B goes, "Let me check....well, not really. The mom is a closet unbeliever already, but is afraid to accept her own unbelief because she has an overbearing mother. The Dad, pretty much the same, only his mother is a real battle ax. Both parents pretend to believe to keep their mother off their case. So, chances are you would be indoctrinated Mormon." And I say, "What about siblings?" And B, looks at the computer screen again, "Says here two brothers so far." And I ask, "what other family dynamics?" B reads off the screen, "Dad just finished work on a PHD he got because his mother told him to, but has no interest in that as an occupation. Currently a laborer in a steel mill. Mom: housewife with aspiration to be a newspaper reporter, but of course, this is only the 50s and she doesn't have the guts to go against society and actually do it." B mutters, translate to ya gonna be poor white trash, but educated white trash." A says, "you only have about ten minutes to keep thinking this over. Mom is already at the hospital. Keep dithering and it will be gone." B says, "Yeah, we have had sixtytwo spirits turn it down already. It is going to be a tough assignment." A says, "Ya want it or not? Couple more minutes and we have to declare this a still birth." "Wait," I say, "You haven't said if this is a girl. My last life it was my daughter who hated me, and I don't think it would be the same with a boy being abused." B says, "Yeah, it is a girl, reddish brown hair, green eyes, Caucasian, 8 lb, 2oz, healthy, with heredity for diabetes, depression, maybe even schizophrenia." "Ohhhh ouch," I say, "Really schizophrenia?" "That is just a maybe," B clarifies, then giggles, "but it does sound crazy." "Hmmm," I mutter. B yells, "We ain't got all day, sister, ya goin' or not?" "OK, I'm in." And everything goes black for me as I start my next adventure.

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Give It Time
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by Give It Time » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:10 pm

Interesting scenario.

Where would you go next?
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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alas
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by alas » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:15 pm

Give It Time wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:10 pm
Interesting scenario.

Where would you go next?
Hmmmmmmm, ...maybe *go back* to Kauai. You know John Denver's "going home to a place you've never been before." Well, that was Kauai. I "knew" Kauai. There were people on Kauai when the Polynesians got there. Experts don't know who they were (not Polynesian) because they packed up and left in the 1800s, don't know where they went either. I was one of them. Funny, but I liked the big Island and liked Maui, but Kauai was different. It was home in a way that the only other place I have ever felt that way about is Mt. Timp.

Or maybe find out how life turns out for a sexual abuse victim who decides to tell and what it might take to get me to tell.

Or maybe I should revisit the "mother of sexual abuse victim" and see if the things I have learned in this life will help me protect my child.

Or maybe try something new, like be a child soldier in Africa and kill other people before I am 8 years old.

It's kind of like, "Which movie do we want to go see?" Or, "Which book to read next." It is kind of like a learning experience and what are you in the mood to learn about?

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Give It Time
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by Give It Time » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:22 pm

alas wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:15 pm
Give It Time wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:10 pm
Interesting scenario.

Where would you go next?
Hmmmmmmm, ...maybe *go back* to Kauai. You know John Denver's "going home to a place you've never been before." Well, that was Kauai. I "knew" Kauai. There were people on Kauai when the Polynesians got there. Experts don't know who they were (not Polynesian) because they packed up and left in the 1800s, don't know where they went either. I was one of them. Funny, but I liked the big Island and liked Maui, but Kauai was different. It was home in a way that the only other place I have ever felt that way about is Mt. Timp.

Or maybe find out how life turns out for a sexual abuse victim who decides to tell and what it might take to get me to tell.

Or maybe I should revisit the "mother of sexual abuse victim" and see if the things I have learned in this life will help me protect my child.

Or maybe try something new, like be a child soldier in Africa and kill other people before I am 8 years old.

It's kind of like, "Which movie do we want to go see?" Or, "Which book to read next." It is kind of like a learning experience and what are you in the mood to learn about?
Interesting perspective about what do you want to learn next. Being able to step into the viewpoint of another human being is what I love about acting and I believe it has enhanced my compassion. I still consider other lives and I just get tired.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

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alas
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by alas » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:31 pm

Give It Time wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:22 pm
alas wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:15 pm
Give It Time wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:10 pm
Interesting scenario.

Where would you go next?
Hmmmmmmm, ...maybe *go back* to Kauai. You know John Denver's "going home to a place you've never been before." Well, that was Kauai. I "knew" Kauai. There were people on Kauai when the Polynesians got there. Experts don't know who they were (not Polynesian) because they packed up and left in the 1800s, don't know where they went either. I was one of them. Funny, but I liked the big Island and liked Maui, but Kauai was different. It was home in a way that the only other place I have ever felt that way about is Mt. Timp.

Or maybe find out how life turns out for a sexual abuse victim who decides to tell and what it might take to get me to tell.

Or maybe I should revisit the "mother of sexual abuse victim" and see if the things I have learned in this life will help me protect my child.

Or maybe try something new, like be a child soldier in Africa and kill other people before I am 8 years old.

It's kind of like, "Which movie do we want to go see?" Or, "Which book to read next." It is kind of like a learning experience and what are you in the mood to learn about?
Interesting perspective about what do you want to learn next. Being able to step into the viewpoint of another human being is what I love about acting and I believe it has enhanced my compassion. I still consider other lives and I just get tired.
Somewhere, I picked up the idea that when a life experience leaves you exhausted, you need more time between lives to process it. Where-ever I picked up the idea used terms like "astral plane" for the time between lives. If you have had a particularly hard life, or just need to kind of consolidate the things you have learned, you might go as long as 100 years on the astral plane. .???


I always just kind of think, "let me get through this life before I worry about the next."

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Give It Time
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by Give It Time » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:31 pm

alas wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:31 pm
Give It Time wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:22 pm
alas wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:15 pm


Hmmmmmmm, ...maybe *go back* to Kauai. You know John Denver's "going home to a place you've never been before." Well, that was Kauai. I "knew" Kauai. There were people on Kauai when the Polynesians got there. Experts don't know who they were (not Polynesian) because they packed up and left in the 1800s, don't know where they went either. I was one of them. Funny, but I liked the big Island and liked Maui, but Kauai was different. It was home in a way that the only other place I have ever felt that way about is Mt. Timp.

Or maybe find out how life turns out for a sexual abuse victim who decides to tell and what it might take to get me to tell.

Or maybe I should revisit the "mother of sexual abuse victim" and see if the things I have learned in this life will help me protect my child.

Or maybe try something new, like be a child soldier in Africa and kill other people before I am 8 years old.

It's kind of like, "Which movie do we want to go see?" Or, "Which book to read next." It is kind of like a learning experience and what are you in the mood to learn about?
Interesting perspective about what do you want to learn next. Being able to step into the viewpoint of another human being is what I love about acting and I believe it has enhanced my compassion. I still consider other lives and I just get tired.
Somewhere, I picked up the idea that when a life experience leaves you exhausted, you need more time between lives to process it. Where-ever I picked up the idea used terms like "astral plane" for the time between lives. If you have had a particularly hard life, or just need to kind of consolidate the things you have learned, you might go as long as 100 years on the astral plane. .???


I always just kind of think, "let me get through this life before I worry about the next."
The Wiccans believe that the soul goes to a place called Summerland where it rests between lives. I'll like that idea. Still tired, though.
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren

Thoughtful
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by Thoughtful » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:04 pm

I just saw on the Daily Mail am article about a husband/ wife cannibal serial murder team that was busted.

Man has significant trauma history as a kid, and lots of sociopath/ASPD characteristics. No dx noted. Wife determined by psychologists to be mentally sound and aware of her actions. No history noted on her. Typically, women involved in crimes like this are along for attention or approval from the man --- however this is very gruesome and he doesn't appear to be the boss of the operation... either she is or both together. Anyway --a very graphic, but interesting example for this thread.

For them, I tend to hope hell is real. Hopefully they don't come back in another life. Yikes.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by SaidNobody » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:16 am

Give It Time wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:34 pm
So, why aren't there fewer and fewer psychopaths as time marches on? Do enlightened beings choose to incarnate as psychopaths in order to meet out karmic justice?

What's up with this?
Psychopaths are largely a biological thing, thus the word "path" is in the name, meaning that their pathology is such that they cannot relate to others. Crazy and cruel is different. You can be a psychopath and still do good things and live a good life. Not relating to the pain of others comes in degrees. Bad psychopaths get the label because they can be especially cruel.

If you study Systemic Family Theory, you get the idea that everyone plays their role in the group. Without danger, we become soft and weak, so the constant threat of someone going nuts on us keeps our survival senses strong. Such things, though they suck, play a major part of success of our culture. In the past, getting killed by nature was more of like a 1 in 50 chance, now it is more like 1 in 1000 chance (even with the psychos) and hopefully it is enough to keep our senses strong.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Reincarnated As A Psychopath

Post by SaidNobody » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:23 am

Give It Time wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:31 pm
The Wiccans believe that the soul goes to a place called Summerland where it rests between lives. I'll like that idea. Still tired, though.
I agree with this in part. The energy of a life has a specific "vibration." It adds to who we are in the long run, sort of juice in the ole life-battery or flowers in the soul garden. Sometimes energy is too dense to cross-over, perhaps it is pain or regret, but sometimes the soul must stay with it to "finish it's business" or abandon it. In some cases, it gets abandoned and becomes "soulless energy" which is basically unclaimed pain or anger that can roam the astral plane, looking for a new home.

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