NOM

Too true, Thoughtful.

Interesting thoughts, SaidNobody., Thank you.

Some scientists believe that the universe is something they call holoflux, that past, present, and future exist at the same time. A psychopath might not be able to choose the pathology of the body. The only thing we might be able to control is how we look at it. The "mindfulness state" is sort of a higher consciousness that observes but doesn't judge the actions of the being.

A mature soul could experience the pain without going too deeply into the guilt.

SaidNobody wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:48 pm

Some scientists believe that the universe is something they call holoflux, that past, present, and future exist at the same time. A psychopath might not be able to choose the pathology of the body. The only thing we might be able to control is how we look at it. The "mindfulness state" is sort of a higher consciousness that observes but doesn't judge the actions of the being.

A mature soul could experience the pain without going too deeply into the guilt.

Again, more interesting thoughts. I still think we do need to look at the psychopaths actions. Methods do need to be taken into account, as well as results.

Mechanical actions are not to be compared to conscious action. If a robot kills someone, it is not going to cross over with remorse.

Same with a psychopath. They cannot feel the pain, therefore cannot be moved to regret. They would not feel guilt anymore than a wolf in the herd of sheep would.

Judgment only matches the consciousness. A vegan would feel guilty eating a steak, but a cowboy would burp, fart, scratch, and praise the lord.

Robots are programmed and controlled by people.

Psychopaths are neither machine nor animal. They do have an understanding of what goes against the laws and mores of society. They do know that in the minds of the empaths and those with integrity that actions come with consequences. They do know these things and choose to act aberrantly, anyway.

They may not feel the remorse, nor the emotions, but they do understand such concepts as lawful and unlawful, fair and unfair. They just choose to operate outside those bounds.

Interestingly, my coworker who is the inspiration for this thread and I had an exchange, today. Her motives are decidedly fear-based. This aligns with a previous exchange we had. Seeing as how she feels fear, I'm not sure where she is on the ASPD continuum. Things are smoother for us, because I gave her high praise, publicly. It wasn't meant as any kind of sycophantic behavior. I was just asked who I thought was the best person in our department. I answered honestly and it happened to be her.

I know her controlling behavior is rewarded and I have exchanged a few comments with others who accept this is just the way she is. My company is extraordinarily accepting and supportive of people and their foibles. Consequently, it's imperfect, but there are many aspects of my workplace that are quite healing and nurturing. Yes, my boss is a woman and she's a freaking fantastic boss and she has been just as patient with me as I'm sure she has been with my co-worker. So, for the time being, I'm going to accept my high performing, very imperfect co-worker as is.

Perhaps you were inferring that your co-worker is the psychopath. Of course I have no opinion on that.

A psychopath has no feelings of connection to others. He cannot feel their pain. Not in the way that an empath would. But sometimes his purpose can have a higher benefit. Sometimes predators are what keep the woods alive. Examples of putting wolves back into Yellowstone National Park. The entire area has been Reborn. Even the grass and the trees have responded. The circle of life being what it is.

Give It Time wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:11 pm

Interestingly, my coworker who is the inspiration for this thread and I had an exchange, today. Her motives are decidedly fear-based. This aligns with a previous exchange we had. Seeing as how she feels fear, I'm not sure where she is on the ASPD continuum.

I don't know if I mentioned this before, but the clinic where I did my in-patient and out-patient therapy used a lot of eastern philosophy to treat patients. Every procedure they used had peer reviewed science behind it, yet remarkably so much of eastern thought synced with it very well. One prominent idea involved an internal tug of war between love and fear. In fact, it helps to consider all feelings as being some combination of those two conflicting emotions. And despite all the more advanced understanding of the mind that I've been introduced to since undergoing therapy, I have found no situation so far to which this simple idea can not be applied.

So it really does appear as though this is the truth. And I've found that following fear instead of love has yielded unhappy outcomes and been the impetus for disastrous consequences. I'm not sure how helpful that may be in this situation but I thought it was worth mentioning.

The trick is, say that Bushlady Jane is walking the bush and sees a brownish lump in the grass ahead.

Her brain gives her two instant ideas,
1, it's a 800lbs lion.
2, a rock to have lunch on.

Statistically, the brain is x5 more likely to go with option 1.

That is why Bushlady Jane will live long enough to have kids. That is why there is so much anxiety in the world. Most of what we do is fear based, and statistically, that why we are still alive.

But, the is the fear of death really just an extension of the love of life?

SaidNobody wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:11 am

Her brain gives her two instant ideas,
1, it's a 800lbs lion.
2, a rock to have lunch on.

Would you consider this to be a struggle on her part between love and fear? I suppose another way of asking would be "Is checking to see if it's a good place to eat an act of love?" I don't think this qualifies.

Yes, it is the struggle. Love who have shared her lunch with the rock and they should have become fast friends.

But....

Whether she ran or checked would have depended a lot of personal experience. Things like courage, trust, self-confidence, play a role.

But those things result in the practice of one particular question.

What if I am wrong?

Her brain will say, "lion, gonna die." Love must ask, "what if you are wrong?"

For survival reasons, the brain will warn of the dangers. The desire for something will ask, "what if you are wrong?" Thus most of us proceed cautiously toward what we want.

The brain will say, "that will hurt too much." The heart will ask, "what if you can handle it?"

Our ability to live is proportional to our ability to risk and handle pain. Love makes us vulnerable, but vulnerabilities make us stronger in Emotional matters.

Thus "I give you weakness to make you strong."

Mad Jax wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:33 am

SaidNobody wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:11 am

Her brain gives her two instant ideas,
1, it's a 800lbs lion.
2, a rock to have lunch on.

Would you consider this to be a struggle on her part between love and fear? I suppose another way of asking would be "Is checking to see if it's a good place to eat an act of love?" I don't think this qualifies.

It doesn't really qualify because there are other human motivations besides love and fear. Those two may be huge, but there is hunger, sex drive, desire for power. So, in the "what if it is a lion" case, the real war is between fear and hunger. If you are hungry enough, you are more likely to assume it is a rock, when it really is a lip because you are distracted by hunger.

Now, you could say that hunger is really the fear of starving, but it really is not, it is a drive toward food.

As far as the psychopath, it isn't all or nothing like Saidnobody is suggesting. It is a spectrum. Someone with psychopathic tendencies has limited ability to empathize. Some of them being almostnormal all the way along the spectrum to a total inability to empathize. The ability to empathize can even be taught, so that they develope a better ability. But it causes them no pain, so most of them do not care to change.

Most of them do not go around doing terrible things. They pass as pretty much normal members of society. It is between 1-3 percent of the population. So, you probably know a psychopath and simply do not recognize it. My dad had psychopathic tendencies. But you had to know him pretty well to tell. He never once got in trouble with the law, not even driving tickets. He understood fairness. He understood consequences, such as rob a bank-go to prison. What he didn't understand was life from anyone else's perspective.

alas wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:33 am

Mad Jax wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:33 am

SaidNobody wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:11 am

Her brain gives her two instant ideas,
1, it's a 800lbs lion.
2, a rock to have lunch on.

Would you consider this to be a struggle on her part between love and fear? I suppose another way of asking would be "Is checking to see if it's a good place to eat an act of love?" I don't think this qualifies.

It doesn't really qualify because there are other human motivations besides love and fear. Those two may be huge, but there is hunger, sex drive, desire for power.

But none of the latter qualify as emotions. Which is what I was implying.

I have found no situation so far to which this simple idea can not be applied.

I need to rephrase. I've found no emotional situation where I find myself unable to apply that philosophy.

alas wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:33 am

What he didn't understand was life from anyone else's perspective.

Which is basically what I was saying. Psychopaths can do good. I think many genius doctors can be psychopaths. But, they cannot feel the pain of others. When psychos go bad, it is extra scary. I don't think it's all or nothing at all.

But, hunger, sex, are subsets of survival. But, they are also forms of love.

Survival is sort the rawest form of love, but everything ties into it.

OK, I see what both of you are saying. All positive forces are under the "love" umbrella and negative ones are under fear. And I would agree that this is a good way to understand the world.

And as to limiting that world view to emotions, it is more apparent to our emotions. If all things that contribute to life are love, then I think hunger can be viewed as an emotion. It is a longing. Yes a longing for food as opposed to how we usually view emotions as a longing for people. But if we go with what Saidnobody said, then it fits. Putting both of your comments together and it makes a pretty solid world view.

Go to church and see what happens.

MadJax, one of the breakthroughs I had was to learn that emotions stem from either love or fear. As a general rule, I think you're right about following fear-based emotions does have a tendency to lead to negative outcomes.

On the other side of this coin is the gift of fear of which Gavin De Becker is such a champion.

SaidNobody, you are writing of the negativity bias and, you're right. Every last one of us has one and it is the reason we are alive.

Letting the negativity bias have full reign has us viewing all others and all situations as being out to destroy us. What happens in abusive marriages is the abuser views their target as their enemy and treats them accordingly.. Without love, no couples would couple and, if they did, they certainly wouldn't stay together and this puts their offspring at risk.

Love is just as necessary for survival as fear.

As alas said, psychopaths don't empathize and what I saw from my co-worker was a simply stunning lack of empathy among other traits that I've been observing over the past year, but I'll leave that relationship where it was on my last post regarding it.

I will say that combining both Maslow's hierarchy of needs and the view of emotions being either fear based or love based has been very helpful to me. It's not how things are done in Utah County and that gets awkward and hence I come here, but I've found it much less frustrating dealing with people and I hold onto a lot less paralyzing hope.

I hear that the Dalai Lama says that fear is that the root of all action. I don't quite see it this way. It's sort of a glass half full, glass half empty thing.

Is the desire to live different than the fear of death? It really is a matter of perspective. There is a place in the universe that is beyond life. It is where the laws of God simply are but no living thing is there, per say. It is aware but nothing is born or dies. In that space, there is a desire to live. It will always be there and it has always been there. Once it takes a living form, there becomes a fear to die. But the desire to live came first and is the true motive.