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Warren vs Gandhi

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:17 am
by SaidNobody
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 37411.html

This is an interesting take on a similar but different situation. It seems that a mostly accepted spiritual leader might have been a prev.

Gandhi had many inappropriate relationships while promoting chastity. Like Warren Jeffs, Gandhi slept with other men's wives while telling them they shouldn't sleep with each other.

Many of his own staff quit or publicly criticized him, and a lot of documentation was destroyed. But, because of his status much of his sexual misdeeds were down played.

Question. Does a person's weirdness diminish their wisdom? JS said that truth was truth no matter where it was found. Is a phrase like "be the change you want to see in the world" suddenly invalid if Gandhi is a prev?

Re: Warren vs Gandhi

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:54 am
by RubinHighlander
Never knew that crap on Gandhi but it does not surprise me.

Re: Warren vs Gandhi

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:22 am
by SaidNobody
RubinHighlander wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:54 am
Never knew that crap on Gandhi but it does not surprise me.
My point is, even though I was warned off of "hero worship" since childhood, I've always respected Gandhi's wisdom. And even before I ran across this article, I was mildly aware there was something weird about his female followers. Women flocked to him. He would spend many "questionable hours" with groups of women.

But, wisdom is wisdom. Regardless of what he did, some of the things he came up with are pretty good.

Recently, more so after studying Karl Jung, I've come to realize that the "powers of life" would never get Church Approval. In fact, they would be banned.

Re: Warren vs Gandhi

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:50 pm
by RubinHighlander
So it could be argued that this same type of thing is why JS was successful in his wooing of women. Although I'd peg Gandhi higher on the original wisdom ranking than JS because of how much JS borrowed from existing sources.

Re: Warren vs Gandhi

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:01 pm
by SaidNobody
RubinHighlander wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:50 pm
So it could be argued that this same type of thing is why JS was successful in his wooing of women. Although I'd peg Gandhi higher on the original wisdom ranking than JS because of how much JS borrowed from existing sources.
Not exactly fair. Gandhi had 100 of advanced technology and 5000 years of rather amazing philosophy to fall back on.

Re: Warren vs Gandhi

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:39 pm
by Give It Time
This is one I still have problems shaking hands with. I knew about Gandhi. Have known about five years.

As you say, though, wisdom is wisdom. Should we regard the source. Not an easy answer. Two quotes I spout regularly:

80% of life is just showing up. --Woody Allen (frequently attributed to him)

Every generation has to reinvent the wheel. --My father

I figure the fact that I can quote my father is a pretty good indicator I have released a lot of pain regarding him.

Woody?

Got me, there.

Re: Warren vs Gandhi

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:58 am
by SaidNobody
Give It Time wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:39 pm
This is one I still have problems shaking hands with. I knew about Gandhi. Have known about five years.

As you say, though, wisdom is wisdom. Should we regard the source. Not an easy answer. Two quotes I spout regularly:

80% of life is just showing up. --Woody Allen (frequently attributed to him)

Every generation has to reinvent the wheel. --My father

I figure the fact that I can quote my father is a pretty good indicator I have released a lot of pain regarding him.

Woody? I

Got me, there.
This "problem" is perhaps a level of evolution. Ultimately, God is inside of us, a kind of swarm consciousness of humanity. Some day we will be born with that innate connection.

For now, I think it is natural to look for a guru or icon to model ourselves after. We are not the last or the first in this process.

In a way, we are just runners in a relay race. But, hopefully each generation gets a little smarter. And, in that race, is personal achievement more important than group achievement.

In 100 years, no one will remember me, but Mormons should still be around. Mormonism is my immortality project.

Will Mormon kids be faster to achieve inner awareness and wisdom? If I can help, sure.

Re: Warren vs Gandhi

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:56 pm
by Give It Time
SaidNobody wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:58 am
Give It Time wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:39 pm
This is one I still have problems shaking hands with. I knew about Gandhi. Have known about five years.

As you say, though, wisdom is wisdom. Should we regard the source. Not an easy answer. Two quotes I spout regularly:

80% of life is just showing up. --Woody Allen (frequently attributed to him)

Every generation has to reinvent the wheel. --My father

I figure the fact that I can quote my father is a pretty good indicator I have released a lot of pain regarding him.

Woody? I

Got me, there.
This "problem" is perhaps a level of evolution. Ultimately, God is inside of us, a kind of swarm consciousness of humanity. Some day we will be born with that innate connection.

For now, I think it is natural to look for a guru or icon to model ourselves after. We are the last or the first in this process.

In a way, we are just runners in a relay race. But, hopefully each generation gets a little smarter. And, in that race, is personal achievement more important than group achievement.

In 100 years, no one will remember me, but Mormons should still be around. Mormonism is my immortality project.

Will Mormon kids be faster to achieve inner awareness and wisdom? If I can help, sure.

Interesting immortality project.

That's actually a good question to ask people. I think most would say their children, but you never know.

Re: Warren vs Gandhi

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:48 pm
by Mad Jax
Give It Time wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:39 pm
This is one I still have problems shaking hands with. I knew about Gandhi. Have known about five years.

As you say, though, wisdom is wisdom. Should we regard the source. Not an easy answer. Two quotes I spout regularly:

80% of life is just showing up. --Woody Allen (frequently attributed to him)

Every generation has to reinvent the wheel. --My father

I figure the fact that I can quote my father is a pretty good indicator I have released a lot of pain regarding him.

Woody?

Got me, there.
As a kid I had neighbors of Bharata heritage who casually chatted about Gandhi with my parents so I heard a lot of that stuff before I knew he was heavily revered. I honestly thought everyone knew most of it but that was from a kid's eyes.

Re: Warren vs Gandhi

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:27 pm
by SaidNobody
Mad Jax wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:48 pm
Give It Time wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:39 pm
This is one I still have problems shaking hands with. I knew about Gandhi. Have known about five years.

As you say, though, wisdom is wisdom. Should we regard the source. Not an easy answer. Two quotes I spout regularly:

80% of life is just showing up. --Woody Allen (frequently attributed to him)

Every generation has to reinvent the wheel. --My father

I figure the fact that I can quote my father is a pretty good indicator I have released a lot of pain regarding him.

Woody?

Got me, there.
As a kid I had neighbors of Bharata heritage who casually chatted about Gandhi with my parents so I heard a lot of that stuff before I knew he was heavily revered. I honestly thought everyone knew most of it but that was from a kid's eyes.
I haven't read much about Gandhi. I watched a couple movies about him. He was great, but even a movie intended to make him look good couldn't hide that he was a little weird.

My point, I read a little from Warren Jeff's.
Much of what he said could make sense. But, he is also psycho. Those conditioned to hear those words fell for him. Probably like those that followed Gandhi.

Why do they follow these types?

Re: Warren vs Gandhi

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:26 am
by moksha
I think I will wait for the reviews if this self-promoted book is ever published.

Re: Warren vs Gandhi

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:40 am
by Just This Guy
One thing that came come out with the #MeToo movement is how common these indiscretions can be. However, As a society, I don't know we have come to grips with that and how to evaluate an individual on a holistic basis. I would venture to saw that lately the pendulum has swung far to the side of zero tolerance of socially unacceptable behavior and also heavily to the unforgiving side.

Does the good that a person does out weight their faults as a human? I would argue that we do not have a good way of determining this on a society level. In plenty of cases all the good that a person has done gets tossed out because of something a person did. Harvey Weinstein, Yeah, he had a long, proven history of abuse. However, he also was responsible for many movies that are loved and well respected. If we throw him out, do we also throw out Lord of the Rings, Shakespeare in Love, and Halloween II? Someone like Ghandi, because he did do a lot of work that had a positive impact on the world, do we discount all that because he was a perv? Christopher Columbus was despicable with how he treated natives, but he also started the renaissance of exploration of the new world.

Like 'em or hate 'em, they have a place in shaping our modern world, despite their flaws.

Re: Warren vs Gandhi

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:21 am
by SaidNobody
Just This Guy,

I walk lightly around this guys. The term Platonic Love came from the days when Plato would frolic in the fruit orchard with young men, his students for days, weeks, and months. Legend has it, the problem was so bad, women began to complain that the men were not available for mating because they were off having a gay time. But Plato, is one of my hero thinkers. Sometimes I come up with some thought and when I express it with great love, someone say, "Oh, you must read Plato." Thousands of years later, his thoughts are still incredible.

I have a phrase I love to use, "Truth happens." Sort of like shit happens, but well, more true. If a very gay Plato is blowing my mind with his wisdom, who I am to label him "wrong?" The Spartans, some of world's most renown warriors actually encourage older men taking young boys as lovers. Toughened them up.

Now you mentioned Harvey Weinstein. I don't like him. But, would I have done any differently in his shoes? Probably not.

Unfortunately, people become icons for the deeds they do, like Columbus, Joseph Smith, etc. Instead of taking the time to understand the influence people have, we would rather judge who they are. Sometimes they can related, but often times, they don't.