Supporting a Beneficial Mythology

Discussions about holding onto your faith and beliefs, whether by staying LDS or by exploring and participating in other churches or faiths. The belief in any higher power (including God, Christ, Buddha, or Jedi) is true in this forum. Be kind to others.
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moksha
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Supporting a Beneficial Mythology

Post by moksha » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:36 pm

Maintaining a mythology that helps shape us into better people can make us appreciative of that mythology. Our "black box" feedback loop needs to constantly examine whether our particular mythological narrative is succeeding or failing in shaping us to be better people.

Your thoughts?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Perfigliano
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Re: Supporting a Beneficial Mythology

Post by Perfigliano » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:44 pm

I think it's useful to be acquainted with all sorts of mythology for the sake of being cultured. I'll probably tell my kids the major Bible stories, but I'll teach them just like any other mythology... when the stories are age appropriate. Abraham nearly murdering Isaac and God committing genocide for the flood are definitely PG-13. There is discretion to be had.

Just because something is mythological doesn't mean it can't teach real principles.
Integrity is more important than loyalty.

Arcturus
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Re: Supporting a Beneficial Mythology

Post by Arcturus » Wed May 02, 2018 8:36 pm

This idea was shared in an online group I follow. If you believe in God and you don't believe the BofM is complete nonsense, I think this might be interesting to you. I'd be curious to see what you think. Your use of the term "beneficial mythology" made me think of this guy's use of the term "manure" as a fertilizer for cultivating spiritual growth. So thought I'd share it. I imagine this will not be interesting at all to many in the NOM community.

Quote:

In Alma 32, he says he's not even asking you to "know something"...he just hopes that you'll start with the simplest "desire to believe", and that you'll let that grow into experiments on that desire to believe that will help you come to various stages of knowing. But you should be clear what it is Alma is suggesting the "seed" is. It isn't whether or not the church is true, and it isn't about the Book of Mormon itself, and it isn't about the current leaders.

Alma explicitly tells us (though we're all blind to see it), that the seed we are to plant is that "God is Merciful unto all that believe". That's the idea/seed he hopes you'll plant in your soul and allow to grow. The BoM, Leaders, The Church...these aren't the seed...these are the manure/fertilizer whose SOUL purpose should be helping the seed that "God is Merciful" to grow. Alma suggest that you sit with this idea, trust in God's mercy, allow the idea of God's mercy to rest in your heart, and decide if it fills up your soul (especially compared to the idea that God is a judgmental a-hole who is just waiting for you to fail miserably and then punish you for it).

He says that once the idea of God's mercy expands your soul...you can at least "know" that single idea through experience...that God is merciful and that believing such is a relief and a delight to the soul. But then he says you don't know much of anything else more than that...everything beyond that is still faith....belief. He says it will take a long time for the seedling you plant about God being Merciful to grow into a tree that can produce the fruit of everlasting life (deep inner connection to God, the type Jesus was always talking about was available in the path he was leading people on).

In case we don't believe that Alma was saying the Seed = God's Mercy...when the people ask him in Alma 33 what he meant by the seed that they should plant, he spends the rest of the chapter talking about a God who is merciful, and willing to be near to people in every moment of their lives, and not just in sacred spaces like temples or synagogues. He quotes a prayer that says that one thing that makes God truly angry is that people won't comprehend or believe that God is merciful. He talks about people who won't simply look in order to be healed...because they think something more has to be done in order to "earn" it (i.e....all the Mormon "do's" that you hinted at.)

God is apparently very patient with the whole "knowing" thing....much more patient than mormon vocabulary suggests. That he's fine with us just believing, or even us just desiring to believe. The foundation of it all isn't "church, BoM, Joseph Smith, Pres. Nelson"...the foundation upon which everything is built is that God is Merciful and Mighty to Deliver. Other things are only "true" in so far as they help us understand that single and beautiful aspect of God's character. They are the manure, not the seed. They are supposed to help the seed grow...but if they don't have sufficient nutritive power to do so....it's best to find other manure that fosters a belief in God's Mercy.
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
D Brisbin

Arcturus
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Re: Supporting a Beneficial Mythology

Post by Arcturus » Wed May 02, 2018 8:42 pm

My personal belief is that there is a God and that God is loving and wants us to love each other. My theory is that God speaks to people differently and through different systems of belief. And so if that system or mythology helps people love each other, God cares much less about the mechanism and much more about the end result.
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
D Brisbin

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moksha
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Re: Supporting a Beneficial Mythology

Post by moksha » Thu May 03, 2018 3:48 pm

The movie Plan 10 from Outer Space made the following postulate:
Just because something is made up does not make it untrue.
Let's consider another such postulate:
Just cause something is made up it can still have value. Mythology is a joy of Humanity's desire.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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moksha
Posts: 1909
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: Supporting a Beneficial Mythology

Post by moksha » Sat May 05, 2018 4:03 am

moksha wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 3:48 pm
Mythology is a joy of Humanity's desire.
Spoken like a true fan of science fiction and fantasy. As they would say on Planet Obliblish, "Enish-go-on-Dosh" or "Keep your Kli-flos-is-es and Hah-ko-kau-beams out of my photonic resonance chamber!"
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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MoPag
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Re: Supporting a Beneficial Mythology

Post by MoPag » Fri May 11, 2018 9:54 am

Arcturus wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 8:36 pm
This idea was shared in an online group I follow. If you believe in God and you don't believe the BofM is complete nonsense, I think this might be interesting to you. I'd be curious to see what you think. Your use of the term "beneficial mythology" made me think of this guy's use of the term "manure" as a fertilizer for cultivating spiritual growth. So thought I'd share it. I imagine this will not be interesting at all to many in the NOM community.

Quote:

In Alma 32, he says he's not even asking you to "know something"...he just hopes that you'll start with the simplest "desire to believe", and that you'll let that grow into experiments on that desire to believe that will help you come to various stages of knowing. But you should be clear what it is Alma is suggesting the "seed" is. It isn't whether or not the church is true, and it isn't about the Book of Mormon itself, and it isn't about the current leaders.

Alma explicitly tells us (though we're all blind to see it), that the seed we are to plant is that "God is Merciful unto all that believe". That's the idea/seed he hopes you'll plant in your soul and allow to grow. The BoM, Leaders, The Church...these aren't the seed...these are the manure/fertilizer whose SOUL purpose should be helping the seed that "God is Merciful" to grow. Alma suggest that you sit with this idea, trust in God's mercy, allow the idea of God's mercy to rest in your heart, and decide if it fills up your soul (especially compared to the idea that God is a judgmental a-hole who is just waiting for you to fail miserably and then punish you for it).

He says that once the idea of God's mercy expands your soul...you can at least "know" that single idea through experience...that God is merciful and that believing such is a relief and a delight to the soul. But then he says you don't know much of anything else more than that...everything beyond that is still faith....belief. He says it will take a long time for the seedling you plant about God being Merciful to grow into a tree that can produce the fruit of everlasting life (deep inner connection to God, the type Jesus was always talking about was available in the path he was leading people on).

In case we don't believe that Alma was saying the Seed = God's Mercy...when the people ask him in Alma 33 what he meant by the seed that they should plant, he spends the rest of the chapter talking about a God who is merciful, and willing to be near to people in every moment of their lives, and not just in sacred spaces like temples or synagogues. He quotes a prayer that says that one thing that makes God truly angry is that people won't comprehend or believe that God is merciful. He talks about people who won't simply look in order to be healed...because they think something more has to be done in order to "earn" it (i.e....all the Mormon "do's" that you hinted at.)

God is apparently very patient with the whole "knowing" thing....much more patient than mormon vocabulary suggests. That he's fine with us just believing, or even us just desiring to believe. The foundation of it all isn't "church, BoM, Joseph Smith, Pres. Nelson"...the foundation upon which everything is built is that God is Merciful and Mighty to Deliver. Other things are only "true" in so far as they help us understand that single and beautiful aspect of God's character. They are the manure, not the seed. They are supposed to help the seed grow...but if they don't have sufficient nutritive power to do so....it's best to find other manure that fosters a belief in God's Mercy.
I love this^^^
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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moksha
Posts: 1909
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Re: Supporting a Beneficial Mythology

Post by moksha » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:10 pm

Perfigliano wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:44 pm
Just because something is mythological doesn't mean it can't teach real principles.
Especially the mythology that we can subscribe to as an adjunct belief system. We can tailor that to include all the nuggets of wisdom we have learned throughout our life and infuse it will a goodness that makes it better than any off the rack mythology. It can serve us as a guiding star, a worry stone, and a nice comfortable easy chair in our time of need.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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moksha
Posts: 1909
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: Supporting a Beneficial Mythology

Post by moksha » Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:35 pm

Thoughts on Spirituality

To the extent that anyone can find an abstract concept, one can find spirituality.
Sometimes when it is missing it can be found hiding in the corner along with
happiness, the TV remote, and a couple of lint balls.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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