The LDS Church as a judge, the Judge?

[deacon blues]

When I think about a judgement day I see a lot of possibilities. First, human nature is inclined to think about it as "the day when I am vindicated and all my enemies get punished." Reading the 'scriptures' leads to a confirmation of this, a confirmation that we all likely have a "confirmation bias." Read Psalms 137 an example of this.
Second, the incredible variety of human experience tells me humans are woefully inadequate to judge fairly. The Church speaks of god inspiring leaders, but on a scale of 1-100, bishops and other leaders are at best .05% better judges than the average person. At least that is my experience. By comparison, secular judges might be 1-5% better than the average person. This is just my opinion of course.
Third, if there is a God, with infinite wisdom, who judges us after this life, such judgement must look and be completely different than human judgement. Completely Different!
No "standing before the bar of God" stuff." I've read of a few NDE's that reflect this, but again, I think that is subjective. These are my thoughts so far.

[Palerider]

I've read of a few NDE's that reflect this, but again, I think that is subjective.

Just curious as to why you might think this is subjective. Is it the diversity of descriptions in NDEs? Or do you question the veracity of the individual relating the account?
I know I find Jeff Holland's recent relating of his NDE quite suspicious and convenient at the same time.

[moksha]

The Brethren are exercising their combined power in protecting Utah against floods from the Pacific Tsunami by cancelling lingering prayers for moisture.

[deacon blues]

I want to reply to Pale Rider, even if it is much later. I believe NDE's are subjective because they aren't shared. They have common characteristics, but they are all singular, individual experiences. I listened to Jeff Holland's NDE, and it seems very subjective. He's just saying the same old s#*!.

[Palerider]

I want to reply to Pale Rider, even if it is much later. I believe NDE's are subjective because they aren't shared. They have common characteristics, but they are all singular, individual experiences. I listened to Jeff Holland's NDE, and it seems very subjective. He's just saying the same old s#*!.

So if I'm hearing you correctly, you would have to have two people go through the same death experience at the same time at the same place and circumstance and then both come back to life and tell the same story as to what occurred while they were out of body. Am I getting that right?

I just wonder a bit about living people who go through some experience together and when they are questioned later their stories of what happened can diverge significantly. And yet they were all there.
I have no empirical basis for asking this question but would it be possible that each individual retains memory of what stood out to them at the time of their nde? And yes in a sense that would be quite subjective. But that wouldn't neccesarily negate the experience.

Until recently, it seemed like most physicians/scientists explained away nde's as a physical phenomenon that the brain manufactured just prior to death. Until a number of those guys actually had nde's and went through that death process. Suddenly they were basically telling their collegues, "Hey.....you weren't there....I was. I know what I experienced."

Frankly, I can't explain the sometimes big divergence in the nde experience. But having been through my own, I'm better equipped to detect those descriptions that don't ring true. I think some people do fake them for the attention or to enlarge their stature. Which is why Holland's seems so utterly phony to me.

[deacon blues]

I have always been intrigued by NDEs, but I'm not an expert by any means. I've never had one.
I understand that some of them could be legitimate. To totally deny that seems unrealistic. Was it Voltaire who said, "Certainty is ridiculous?"
I can see that a shared NDE is unlikely, though not totally out of the realm of possibility. Two people or more dying in a single event might share a experience, but I've never heard of such a case. I would be very interested to learn if such an experience has occurred.
Pale, I'm somewhat envious of you having experienced an NDE, and I trust in your sincerity. God bless us every one.

[Hagoth]

NDEs are fascinating. The only thing I know about them for sure is that they are very direct and personal experiences. I am highly suspect of the people who write a best selling book about their NDE and then continue to remember new details for three or four more volumes. Especially when those details fall in line with that person's pre-NDE religious beliefs.

I was very skeptical about NDEs in general until I met people who have actually had them. I am equally open to the idea that they are some kind of actual spiritual experiences , just as I am to the idea that they might be purely chemical. As someone who has had quite a bit of experience with psychedelics I can tell you that your brain is capable of creating imagery, spiritual experience, and awe of degrees that are far beyond your capacity to even comprehend in your normal day-to-day life.

But the main thing for me is that these are direct personal experience. Most people, I assume, are not just making them up. It is really happening to them, and it is beyond the ability of any of us to determine the sources. I have a friend who had an NDE after her horse fell on her. She told me she found herself sitting in a garden with Jesus. They sat together on a bench and she asked him every question she could think of and he gave simple, sometimes surprising answers. She was overwhelmed by the incomprehensible love she felt. Whatever the source of this experience, it was absolutely real to her and it changed her life for the better. Jesus told her to stop worrying about all of the annoying, neurotic demands and expectations of the church and just enjoy her life and try to love everyone.

I was also impressed by the NDE of a neuroscientist, I forget his name, who experienced brain death and claimed that his colleagues agreed that he should have never been able to recover. His NDE was very different. He found himself in an incomprehensibly beautiful afterlife where he was a speck on the wing of a butterfly. There was a lot more to it, but that is the general setup. This experience also changed his life for the better.

Did these things actually, literally happen? I don't really care, because there is absolutely no way for me to test them. What I do care about is direct, personal experience. These experiences were absolutely real for the people who experienced them. I have no insight or authority to make a judgement either way.

BUT I will be quite suspicious of anyone who says insists that I change MY beliefs and behaviors to align with their experience. Personal experience is just that. Personal. For all I know there may be no afterlife, or there may be a common afterlife, or there may be a unique afterlife for each of us. I don't expect to be a speck on a butterfly's wing for eternity, but maybe that guy will.

The thing is, we can't know. For me it's all about appreciating the beautiful mystery of it rather than creating rules and checklists. When you stop believing dogma you open the door to believing in possibilities.

[deacon blues]

I'm am impressed with the overwhelming love experienced by many NDE recipients. The Bible says "God is love" and "Charity never fails." Love is something worth exercising faith in, in my opinion.
And, in the words of John Lennon: "Whatever gets you through the night.... is all right."