Conference Talk Review: Saturday Afternoon - Todd Christofferson, "Abide in My Love"

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oliver_denom
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Conference Talk Review: Saturday Afternoon - Todd Christofferson, "Abide in My Love"

Post by oliver_denom »

Is it election day yet? I need some Xanax.

Part 14 of ∞

Conference Talk Review: Saturday Afternoon - Todd Christofferson, "Abide in My Love"

This is a very nice message!
The Bible tells us that “God is love.” He is the perfect embodiment of love, and we rely heavily on the constancy and universal reach of that love. As President Thomas S. Monson has expressed: “God’s love is there for you whether or not you feel you deserve love. It is simply always there.”
I always love Christianity when it does this. Instead of taking a happy person and making them feel worthless, as they often do, they're taking someone who's down and lifting them up. Go team. I like that a lot. Can't wait to see what he says next!
There are many ways to describe and speak of divine love. One of the terms we hear often today is that God’s love is “unconditional.” While in one sense that is true, the descriptor unconditional appears nowhere in scripture. Rather, His love is described in scripture as “great and wonderful love,” “perfect love,” “redeeming love,” and “everlasting love.” These are better terms because the word unconditional can convey mistaken impressions about divine love, such as, God tolerates and excuses anything we do because His love is unconditional, or God makes no demands upon us because His love is unconditional, or all are saved in the heavenly kingdom of God because His love is unconditional.
Oh yeah, I may have gotten carried away. The love of God has always got strings attached. He's the ideal Mormon parent of a wayward child, he feels love for us, but he doesn't let that love get in the way of his judgement. It's the same way a loving parent informs their adult child that their partner isn't welcome in their home. That parent still feels love, they just don't act on it! You know...like being gay. The important thing here, according to Christofferson, isn't about how God expresses his love (with judgement and eternal punishment...but he must feel really awful about it), it's about how we react to God's love. So if he condemns you to a lower resurrection and eternal torment, you should react with a thank you?...I think...thanks for loving me? Kind of?

Christofferosn clears things up for us.
Jesus said: “As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. ”To “continue in” or “abide in” the Savior’s love means to receive His grace and be perfected by it. To receive His grace, we must have faith in Jesus Christ and keep His commandments, including repenting of our sins, being baptized for the remission of sins, receiving the Holy Ghost, and continuing in the path of obedience. God will always love us, but He cannot save us in our sins.
Let's go back to the example of parents with an adult child who is gay. Christofferson's point here is that the child has a loving home with loving parents who want to embrace and love them, but the only way they'll get to feel or abide in that love is if they can walk through the door. That door, in this example, has requirements like not being gay. You might have believed that doors are simply entrances that are completely unbiased over who can walk through them, but you would be wrong. All the adult child has to do is leave their spouse at home, pretend they aren't in a relationship, and act exactly how their parents want them to while at the house. Simple! It's the same deal with God. Stop being yourself, because you are awful, meet a check list of requirements, and then you can walk through God's door and feel all that awesome love that's waiting for you on the other side. I'm sorry for the language, I'll try to moderate myself, but Christofferson's version of god sounds like a royal prick.

God may be full of love, but he's also full of wrath and justice. This is the great compromise, because God's not giving up on love but he's also not giving up on his version of justice. He'll love you no matter what, even as he unfortunately has to thrust you down to hell for a little torment. It's for your own good, and he just hates to do it. But that's what he used Jesus for. He went ahead and let Jesus be tortured so bad, both physically and spiritually, so that you wouldn't have to be. But just like love, taking advantage of Jesus' torture isn't free. Lol...they aren't just going to give it to you. Even that is predicated on your perfect obedience which means, in the context of Mormonism, obeying folks like Mr. Christofferson, the nice fellow kindly explaining how love works. Just do what we say and we'll give you a pass through the veil, then you can binge on all the love you want.

But there's an obvious problem with this conditional not conditional definition of god's love, it doesn't exactly match up with what we find in the New Testament. As matter of fact, this view is directly contradicted in a number of places which is why many protestant and evangelical churches have taken a very different view of love and forgiveness. Even the D&C, when speaking to the Universalist Martin Harris, claims that God's punishment is just temporary and that the threat of hell is just a motivational tactic. Christofferson has an answer for us nambypambies.
Some will argue that God blesses everyone without distinction—citing, for example, Jesus’s statement in the Sermon on the Mount: “[God] maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.”15 Indeed, God does rain down upon all His children all the blessings He can—all the blessings that love and law and justice and mercy will permit. And He commands us to be likewise generous:

“I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

“That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven.”

Nevertheless, God’s greater blessings are conditioned on obedience. President Russell M. Nelson explained: “The resplendent bouquet of God’s love—including eternal life—includes blessings for which we must qualify, not entitlements to be expected unworthily. Sinners cannot bend His will to theirs and require Him to bless them in sin [see Alma 11:37]. If they desire to enjoy every bloom in His beautiful bouquet, they must repent.”
Did you catch that? There's a multi-tiered reward structure in heaven, and Jesus was just talking about the bottom floor. Yeah, you might be able to squeak by into the Telestial, but if you want the good stuff like being a God and creating planets and everything, then you need to get in line with the obedience program. See? No contradiction. Just Jesus preaching the bare minimum. Thank goodness we had Joseph Smith et al. to really flesh out and complete Jesus' teachings, otherwise we'd be screwed. Christofferson writes, "Abiding in His love will enable us to realize our full potential, to become even as He is. As President Dieter F. Uchtdorf stated: “The grace of God does not merely restore us to our previous innocent state. … His aim is much higher: He wants His sons and daughters to become like Him.” So you can take advantage of the cheap grace and get a cheap afterlife, or you can go all in and get something good.

Besides this turd, which is the church's insistence that God's love has conditions, Christofferson says some nice things about forgiveness and perseverance. Quoting Dallin Oaks he writes, "The Final Judgment is not just an evaluation of a sum total of good and evil acts—what we have done. It is an acknowledgment of the final effect of our acts and thoughts—what we have become.” I like this because it really embodies this idea of becoming. We're shaped by our past, but God cares more for what we've overcome and who we've become as opposed to what we've done. If not for the whole rant about God's love having so many conditions, then I'd be tempted to label this radical acceptance.

He punctuates this thought by telling the story of Hellen Keller, one of which I'm very familiar, about how she overcame the obstacles she was born with and through perseverance learned to communicate and become an outspoken leader. But here's what I love about Helen Keller that wasn't said. She fought to give women the vote, belong to and campaigned for the Socialist Party, was an unabashed pacifist, and helped found the ACLU. Hey, she was held up as an example by an apostle, I think we're all obligated to follow her lead. Don't you think? No, just kidding, Christofferson just focused on how she learned discipline through obedience to her teacher.

Christofferson ends with an interesting factoid. The Garden of Gethsemane was a place where they kept an olive press, and apparently, when it's used the resulting oil comes out kind of red and blood like. Super cool right? Jesus was symbolically put on an olive press and literally bled from every pore...like olives.
Last edited by oliver_denom on Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fifi de la Vergne
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Re: Conference Talk Review: Saturday Afternoon - Todd Christofferson, "Abide in My Love"

Post by Fifi de la Vergne »

GREAT comments, Oliver. Your little asides are priceless!
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Re: Conference Talk Review: Saturday Afternoon - Todd Christofferson, "Abide in My Love"

Post by Mormorrisey »

I'm so glad you managed to continue your review series on the new site! One of my favourite things to read after conference. And this is a good one to comment on. I'm not entirely sure why the current leadership are so invested in making sure us lesser beings understand that God doesn't love us unconditionally. Why do they care so much about this? Are they so worried that we'll all stop paying tithing, cleaning toilets and spending 24/7 in search of eternal busywork? In the vain hope that doing these things will ensure that God loves us? Oh, wait. I think I hit on it.

This is not great doctrine, and I refuse to believe in it. Is God that insecure that he can't love me unless I make him happy by doing what he wants? I certainly don't treat MY kids this way. I love them even when I disapprove of their choices. That will never change, so why would God put conditions on his love? He's supposed to be more perfect than I am! It may be semantics for some, but I'm fully invested in the idea that God loves me anyway, despite how upset I am at the corporate church. You're absolutely right about the nature of this talk, oliver. And you just can't polish a turd.
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Re: Conference Talk Review: Saturday Afternoon - Todd Christofferson, "Abide in My Love"

Post by Red Ryder »

Mormorrisey wrote:Why do they care so much about this? Are they so worried that we'll all stop paying tithing, cleaning toilets and spending 24/7 in search of eternal busywork? In the vain hope that doing these things will ensure that God loves us? Oh, wait. I think I hit on i
This has been the biggest ahaa moment for me in my faith transition. Keep the members in a constant drip of symptoms while providing the cure.

Take the symptoms away and the cure isn't needed. No wonder religion is dying on the olive tree.
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Re: Conference Talk Review: Saturday Afternoon - Todd Christofferson, "Abide in My Love"

Post by John G. »

Great analysis! I'm glad you're doing your reviews of conference talks again! Reading your reviews is by far the best way to get informed about what happened at conference!
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Re: Conference Talk Review: Saturday Afternoon - Todd Christofferson, "Abide in My Love"

Post by 2bizE »

I've noticed a trend where the church leaders like to quote each other. I rarely hear them quote JS or any of the dead leaders. They quote each other in circles almost like they have all been instructed to quote only living leaders.
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Re: Conference Talk Review: Saturday Afternoon - Todd Christofferson, "Abide in My Love"

Post by MoPag »

Christofferson is just trying to score a spot in the First Presidency. He figures if he sucks up to Nelson now, when Monson finally dies, he just might get a promotion.
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Re: Conference Talk Review: Saturday Afternoon - Todd Christofferson, "Abide in My Love"

Post by DPRoberts »

2bizE wrote:I've noticed a trend where the church leaders like to quote each other. I rarely hear them quote JS or any of the dead leaders. They quote each other in circles almost like they have all been instructed to quote only living leaders.
I also noticed that it was the senior members of the Q15 he quotes from. Definitely seems to be sucking up to them for whatever reason.
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Re: Conference Talk Review: Saturday Afternoon - Todd Christofferson, "Abide in My Love"

Post by John G. »

DPRoberts wrote:
2bizE wrote:I've noticed a trend where the church leaders like to quote each other. I rarely hear them quote JS or any of the dead leaders. They quote each other in circles almost like they have all been instructed to quote only living leaders.
I also noticed that it was the senior members of the Q15 he quotes from. Definitely seems to be sucking up to them for whatever reason.
Also, is it just me or are citations to the Journal of Discourses way down to? I've causally been reading conference talks from the 70's and 80's and it seems like in those talks they cited them relatively frequently.
"If your children are taught untruths on evolution in the public schools or even in our Church schools, provide them with a copy of President Joseph Fielding Smith's excellent rebuttal in his book Man, His Origin and Destiny."

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Re: Conference Talk Review: Saturday Afternoon - Todd Christofferson, "Abide in My Love"

Post by alas »

John G. wrote:
DPRoberts wrote:
2bizE wrote:I've noticed a trend where the church leaders like to quote each other. I rarely hear them quote JS or any of the dead leaders. They quote each other in circles almost like they have all been instructed to quote only living leaders.
I also noticed that it was the senior members of the Q15 he quotes from. Definitely seems to be sucking up to them for whatever reason.
Also, is it just me or are citations to the Journal of Discourses way down to? I've causally been reading conference talks from the 70's and 80's and it seems like in those talks they cited them relatively frequently.
I think this business of quoting each other and dropping things like quotes from JoD is meant to keep people out of weird history. It is the very same reason that instead of giving the *original source* of something they quote in lessons and Ensign articles, they send you on a wild goose hunt to find where something really came from. They don't want people researching too much. So, they will give a fairly recent lesson manual as the quote (and that lesson refers to something just older, which finally says it comes from the Discourses of BY. Rather than sending researchers back to old Brigham Young quotes where they learn things the church would rather them not be aware of the whole quote, or the context of the quote. The same way some quotes have a quote that is something like, "word word...word word...word [word] word." And when you finally track down the whole quote and the context, it doesn't mean at all what they were trying to make it sound like.

It is just simpler to only quote each other than spent time and effort doctoring what Joseph Smith said to remove the polygamous/polyandrous context.
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