Temple Clothes

[alas]

Symbolism that is clear, like binding the two hands together as meaning you are binding your lives together in a pagan handfasting, well when it is clear it can be beautiful, or supper ugly as putting your hand in cupping shape to catch your guts after disemboweling yourself. But symbols that are confusing or the meaning is never given and could mean anything or nothing, well, it is just stupid pretending to be deep and meaningful.

I think the temple symbolism is perfectly clear.

Going to the temple symbolizes life within Mormonism. The structure is expensive and everyone has to say it's beautiful even though it's uninspired and imposing. Strict rules determine who can enter. You spend most of your time listening to things you already know, and you respond in rote. You do things that make no sense, but your eternal life depends on them and everyone else seems to be happy doing them. You initially enter because you want to be a better person or get closer to God, but you get tricked into promising your life to the church. There's stuff you can't talk about on pain of rejection and death. To keep things fresh, you scrutinize every little detail for meaning. In the end, even though it's boring and empty, you go and do because that's what your people expect and conforming makes you feel like you belong.

The temple is Mormonism.

Best explanation of temple symbolism ever.

[Rob4Hope]

Symbolism that is clear, like binding the two hands together as meaning you are binding your lives together in a pagan handfasting, well when it is clear it can be beautiful, or supper ugly as putting your hand in cupping shape to catch your guts after disemboweling yourself. But symbols that are confusing or the meaning is never given and could mean anything or nothing, well, it is just stupid pretending to be deep and meaningful.

I think the temple symbolism is perfectly clear.

Going to the temple symbolizes life within Mormonism. The structure is expensive and everyone has to say it's beautiful even though it's uninspired and imposing. Strict rules determine who can enter. You spend most of your time listening to things you already know, and you respond in rote. You do things that make no sense, but your eternal life depends on them and everyone else seems to be happy doing them. You initially enter because you want to be a better person or get closer to God, but you get tricked into promising your life to the church. There's stuff you can't talk about on pain of rejection and death. To keep things fresh, you scrutinize every little detail for meaning. In the end, even though it's boring and empty, you go and do because that's what your people expect and conforming makes you feel like you belong.

The temple is Mormonism.

Best explanation of temple symbolism ever.

And as you walk around, you see temple workers standing and sitting with meaningless blank smiles on their face because, after all, they are in the temple, which makes them happy (so they play the role with that stupid meaingless blank smile).

And you have old grisley men who need to trim their nose hair who get after you because you didn't quite tie your sash right....and when you ask them questions, they smile and say you just need to keep coming more, and then you'll understand it more and better.

And, you go into the locker room, and find locks on the lockers BECAUSE that way things are kept safe...in the temple?

And (in the older days), you go into initiatory, and wear next to nothing as you prance around naked. Reminded me of the old Desert Gym days (building was where the conference center is now), where they had to close it down because of sexual things happening in the locker room. But it was a sign of pride and status to prance around wearing nothing but your garments where everyone, member and non could see how PROUD you were to be a mormon.

And now there are these rumors of them doing away with garments,...and changing the initiatory,...and everythign else?

Its confusing to keep up with...this unchanging "pure ceremony" sh!t.

[Yobispo]

Just doing a little checking.

"Meaning of the Scottish Rite Cap
“In the Scottish Rite, the caps [indicate] the consecration of one’s physical and spiritual (material and intellectual) attributes to the betterment of humanity. On the one hand, the caps are an inheritance from our chivalric tradition, as similar ones were associated with European Orders of Knighthood, where they evolved from the Arming Bonnet, worn under the helmet. On the other hand, they are also worn as a type of prayer cap, a tradition which also survives in some religions. Thus, the caps are a constant reminder that the physical must be subject to the spiritual and that, like knights, we must valiantly endeavor to maintain honor and virtue by applying the Moral Sense and Reason.”

The "lamb skin" apron was early on said to be a protective defense against the harsh work of stone cutting. It later took on other sacred symbolism.

"Presently, it is a badge of fraternal distinction. During his first degree, each Mason is given a plain white leather apron, it represents the white lambskin, a symbol of innocence. Here in Massachusetts, at least, it is Masonic tradition that after a man has completed his three degrees, he no longer wears that apron to lodge meetings. Instead he carefully puts it away and wears one of the cloth aprons each lodge supplies for its members and visitors. The white leather apron becomes a keepsake throughout his life and finally, at his passing, he wears it in death as an eternal symbol of hope. Every Mason should tell his wife and family where he keeps his apron."
http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Masonry/Essays/ml.html

One really interesting concept I found was that of the "rough" and "perfect" ashlar (hewn stone).

"Rough and Perfect Ashlars:

In the Fellowcraft Degree, we see the use of the Rough and Perfect Ashlars. The lesson to be learned is that by means of education and the acquirement of knowledge, a man improves the state of his spiritual and moral being.

Like man, each Rough Ashlar begins as an imperfect stone. With education, cultivation and brotherly love, man is shaped into a being which has been tried by the square of virtue and encircled by the compasses of his boundaries, given to us by our Creator."

I'm sure this is where Joseph picked up (as usual) his idea that he was a "rough stone rolling", being perfected as he had a piece chipped off here and there.

And it promotes the idea of "perfectionism" through work, righteous living and special education. Which are actually great concepts for living in a temporal world but are corrupted when they are thought to gain a man or woman Heaven through one's own achievements.

Ashlars:

masonicashlars111.jpg

This is just a start. As you probably know this stuff goes on and on....

I like that Scottish Rite definition, and if it was presented that way in the endowment it could have been meaningful. Instead, since the mormons have no clue why it's there, it ends up just looking like a silly cap. Too bad.

[MoPag]

I was once in a special session where a temple president explained the meanings of the arm/hand positions used for the temple signs (e.g. cupping ) He had elaborate and randomish, reasons for them but I remember thinking, I dunno, maybe someone was just trying to look all Egyptian-y, like the poses on certain papyri.

Okay so this might be a piece to the puzzle. The guy who founded Wicca, Gerald Garnder, was a 3rd degree Mason. Wicca uses the same hand symbols as we use in the temple. Disclaimer there are many different traditions of Wicca so the way different groups use them might vary, but here is a general break down.

Your right had in is your projective hand. (If it is your dominant hand)
Your left hand is your receptive hand. (But only if you are right-handed)

There are four elements:
Air and Fire (masculine or relating to the God)
Water and Earth (feminine or relating to the Goddess)

You commune with God or Goddess via the elements.
Holding you hands above for Air
Bringing your hands down from the air for Fire.
Holding your hand in a cupping shape for water
Holding your hand with the palm facing the earth for earth.

What we call the patriarchal grip is also called the witch's handshake. The whole point of it is to try and feel the pulse of the other person with your forefinger on their pulse point.

The only arm to the square I've been able to find is related to honoring Isis (pronounced Ice-seize) the Egyptian Goddess of fertility and sexuality.

So have fun next time your at the temple folks!!

[Rob4Hope]

I was once in a special session where a temple president explained the meanings of the arm/hand positions used for the temple signs (e.g. cupping ) He had elaborate and randomish, reasons for them but I remember thinking, I dunno, maybe someone was just trying to look all Egyptian-y, like the poses on certain papyri.

Okay so this might be a piece to the puzzle. The guy who founded Wicca, Gerald Garnder, was a 3rd degree Mason. Wicca uses the same hand symbols as we use in the temple. Disclaimer there are many different traditions of Wicca so the way different groups use them might vary, but here is a general break down.

Your right had in is your projective hand. (If it is your dominant hand)
Your left hand is your receptive hand. (But only if you are right-handed)

There are four elements:
Air and Fire (masculine or relating to the God)
Water and Earth (feminine or relating to the Goddess)

You commune with God or Goddess via the elements.
Holding you hands above for Air
Bringing your hands down from the air for Fire.
Holding your hand in a cupping shape for water
Holding your hand with the palm facing the earth for earth.

What we call the patriarchal grip is also called the witch's handshake. The whole point of it is to try and feel the pulse of the other person with your forefinger on their pulse point.

The only arm to the square I've been able to find is related to honoring Isis (pronounced Ice-seize) the Egyptian Goddess of fertility and sexuality.

So have fun next time your at the temple folks!!

Lots of occult type stuff. We all know JS was a glass-looker, and slit and bled out animals in magic circles.

Seems to me like there is a whole occult type MAGICK connection in Mormonism. They certainly were infatuated with their sexuality and bedding as many YOUNG virgins as they could....

[Hagoth]

The guy who founded Wicca, Gerald Garnder, was a 3rd degree Mason. Wicca uses the same hand symbols as we use in the temple.

[oliblish]

Holding your hand in a cupping shape for water

I always heard this was to catch your guts that rush out as you disembowel yourself during the execution of the penalty.

[wtfluff]

The guy who founded Wicca, Gerald Garnder, was a 3rd degree Mason. Wicca uses the same hand symbols as we use in the temple.

Oh, come on now. You're not really surprised or shocked are you Hagoth?

I guarantee you that apologists are going to tell you that Gardner stole the hand symbols from Solomon, and his temple.

Curious MoPag: Do Wiccans wear baker's hats?

[Emower]

Holding your hand in a cupping shape for water

I always heard this was to catch your guts that rush out as you disembowel yourself during the execution of the penalty.

When I found out about the penalties that is what I thought too, but that seems totally dumb. If I slit my bowels the last thing on my mind would be trying to not make a mess on the floor.

[Emower]

Symbolism that is clear, like binding the two hands together as meaning you are binding your lives together in a pagan handfasting, well when it is clear it can be beautiful, or supper ugly as putting your hand in cupping shape to catch your guts after disemboweling yourself. But symbols that are confusing or the meaning is never given and could mean anything or nothing, well, it is just stupid pretending to be deep and meaningful.

I think the temple symbolism is perfectly clear.

Going to the temple symbolizes life within Mormonism. The structure is expensive and everyone has to say it's beautiful even though it's uninspired and imposing. Strict rules determine who can enter. You spend most of your time listening to things you already know, and you respond in rote. You do things that make no sense, but your eternal life depends on them and everyone else seems to be happy doing them. You initially enter because you want to be a better person or get closer to God, but you get tricked into promising your life to the church. There's stuff you can't talk about on pain of rejection and death. To keep things fresh, you scrutinize every little detail for meaning. In the end, even though it's boring and empty, you go and do because that's what your people expect and conforming makes you feel like you belong.

The temple is Mormonism.

Best explanation of temple symbolism ever.

This is the funniest and yet most depressing thing I have heard in a while.

[Palerider]

Holding your hand in a cupping shape for water

I always heard this was to catch your guts that rush out as you disembowel yourself during the execution of the penalty.

When I found out about the penalties that is what I thought too, but that seems totally dumb. If I slit my bowels the last thing on my mind would be trying to not make a mess on the floor.

I was given to understand the hand was held in cupping shape in anticipation of a gift from God.

The first time I heard of it as a recepticle for ones bowels after Hari Kari was here.

Both make sense but you couldn't prove either one by me and neither one would surprise me.

[Anon70]

And now there are these rumors of them doing away with garments,...and changing the initiatory,...and everythign else?

Its confusing to keep up with...this unchanging "pure ceremony" sh!t.

Wait what!? I heard changes for the temple were coming but I heard shorter endowment and garments only in the temple and weakening WOW and mission changes. But then of course nothing happened except 2 hour church and I felt mad that I listened to conference. Where are these rumors coming from? I’m such a sucker lol.

But I do feel like if these changes start really coming through a couple of things could happen - people like my DH might become a more nuanced believer. He’s starting to say things like that’s culture not doctrine or that’s the church not the gospel. If more things he thought were doctrine get changed I think he’d move to NOM faster.

[MoPag]

The guy who founded Wicca, Gerald Garnder, was a 3rd degree Mason. Wicca uses the same hand symbols as we use in the temple.

Oh, come on now. You're not really surprised or shocked are you Hagoth?

I guarantee you that apologists are going to tell you that Gardner stole the hand symbols from Solomon, and his temple.

Curious MoPag: Do Wiccans wear baker's hats?

Some traditions might. I've never heard of any. Lots of Wiccans care more about the material of the clothing you wear instead of what it looks like. Most prefer organic material like cotton to synthetic material like polyester.

And the more I think about it, is pretty likely that Gardner just assigned different meanings to hand symbols he had learned from the Masons. Wicca is a really earth based, nature-y religion and so what ever they originally meant, he just decided to teach them to mean earthy stuff.

But I still like to snicker when all the priesthood is communing with Goddesses of earth and water during the endowment.

[Red Ryder]

And now there are these rumors of them doing away with garments,...and changing the initiatory,...and everythign else?

Its confusing to keep up with...this unchanging "pure ceremony" sh!t.

Wait what!? I heard changes for the temple were coming but I heard shorter endowment and garments only in the temple and weakening WOW and mission changes. But then of course nothing happened except 2 hour church and I felt mad that I listened to conference. Where are these rumors coming from? I’m such a sucker lol.

But I do feel like if these changes start really coming through a couple of things could happen - people like my DH might become a more nuanced believer. He’s starting to say things like that’s culture not doctrine or that’s the church not the gospel. If more things he thought were doctrine get changed I think he’d move to NOM faster.

These rumors have now replaced the "2 hour church" rumor since 2 hour church is no longer a rumor.

Moving garment wear only in the temple may actually increase convert baptisms. All of the non-Mormons I know just think it's plain weird.

Hey COB researchers lurking on NOM, it's weird eh? Just plain weird. Please let Russell know and tell h to sleep on it!

[wtfluff]

But I still like to snicker when all the priesthood is communing with Goddesses of earth and water during the endowment.

Honestly, the Wiccan version is infinitely more palatable.

Hey COB researchers lurking on NOM, it's weird eh? Just plain weird. Please let Russell know and tell h to sleep on it!

Or: How 'bout if Aunt Wendy just whispers it in cRusty's ear while he's hallucinating? (I have a sneaking suspicion that she's likely the one who is really pulling the strings.)

[RubinHighlander]

Anybody remember this bull$hit film on the Restoration of the Priesthood from the 80s?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4B_BTjpG8o&t=983s

It lays out the COBs correlated narrative as to how the restoration went down in a nice orderly fashion:
1. FV
2. AP
3. Baptism
4. MP
5. Church organized
...not the way it happened!

I showed this BS to so many folks over in the UK and it's what I was taught and read my whole TBM life.

One of the things I remember from this film, related to this topic, is how the COB tried to make us believe that ancient Jews wore temple clothes, except we didn't get one of those cool light bright seer stone breast plates!

RestorationPHBS.JPG (38.26 KiB) Viewed 6439 times